'The Partnerships Guide - Articles by tacticalterrier‎

gunnerjames

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Jul 18, 2010
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I'll give it a shot when I have time mate, thanks for the suggestion!
Hello mate in your arsenal save what roles and duty do you give to your wingers and should I play Song as a anchor man or defensive midfielder on defend. Does Van Persie still drop deep when you play him as a deep lying forward attack I was under the impression that if you wanted a player to drop deep and play like a false 9 then you should play him as deep lying forward support.

If you could help me with this area of my team set up that would be great.
 
Jun 28, 2012
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This is ace... I'll be experimenting this with a lower league team.......... Has anyone had success with using these partnerships?
 

dinho80

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Apr 6, 2010
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I tried cover/stopper.Working very well,but i dont suggest against barca or real madrid.They will destroy you.
 
Jun 10, 2012
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Hello mate in your arsenal save what roles and duty do you give to your wingers and should I play Song as a anchor man or defensive midfielder on defend. Does Van Persie still drop deep when you play him as a deep lying forward attack I was under the impression that if you wanted a player to drop deep and play like a false 9 then you should play him as deep lying forward support.

If you could help me with this area of my team set up that would be great.
Hey I had Gervinho on the left as Inside Forward - Attack and Walcott on the right as Winger - Attack to provide width, Song is an Anchor Man but you can give him more freedom if you like. Yeah he does, I just changed his mentality to a more defensive setting so he dropped deep. FYI, to get someone to play like a false 9, trequartista would be much more suitable.
 

Donnelly1

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Jul 17, 2010
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Thanks guys! Um, I have been busy recently and I haven't had much time to do one but I'll try and get a post done soon, I was thinking Deep Lying Forward - Support/Poacher like Rooney and Chicharito at Man Utd but if you want something more unusual, I'd be happy to do a suggestion instead!
You close to posting your next partnership? :)
 

Carbz

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Dec 17, 2011
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Just read this whole thread, learned so much, thanks soo much tacticalterrier!
 
Jun 10, 2012
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Sorry I haven't started, I've been away over the weekend and I've got a French exam coming up which I need to revise for, I'll try and do it as soon as I can though!
 
Jun 10, 2012
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when using adv PM/deep lying PM, do you set a playmaker in the team instructions or not?
It depends, if you're playing possession football, then choose the DLP, as your team will take more time in finding passes and won't rush the attacks. However if you're playing attacking, fast-paced football then use the advanced playmaker as if you choose the DLP, you won't attack as quickly as you usually would and then the opposition will have more time to get organised.
 
Jun 26, 2011
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It depends, if you're playing possession football, then choose the DLP, as your team will take more time in finding passes and won't rush the attacks. However if you're playing attacking, fast-paced football then use the advanced playmaker as if you choose the DLP, you won't attack as quickly as you usually would and then the opposition will have more time to get organised.
Okay got it now and by the way would the partnership work just as well if the duo weren't in the CM position? in other words, the deep lying PM is Def mid and the adv PM is an AMC.
 
Jun 10, 2012
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The DLP would be unaffected but you wouldn't see as many runs from deep from the advanced playmaker which is a very important aspect of his game. As I said earlier, he's more of a 'box-to-box playmaker' than an advanced playmaker and if you put him in AMC instead, he wouldn't play box to box so you'd lose some defensive stability.
 

gunnerjames

Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Hey! This guide will hopefully go through the wide spectrum of partnerships in FM 12, if you have any suggestions then leave them in the comments and I'll try and do them!

1. Stopper/Cover
2. Defensive Winger/Wing-Back
3. Advanced Playmaker/Deep-Lying Playmaker


The Stopper/Cover Partnership



Origins



The most common defensive partnership in modern football, was originally invented by the fantastic Brazil side of the late 1950s in their 4-2-4 system. They brought a midfielder into defence, so they had a centre back comfortable on the ball who had the ability to play out of defence, which made it easier to build attacks. It would work by the original centre back winning the ball then making a simple pass to his new partner who could then play out of defence to the midfield.



This partnership later evolved into the widely used stopper/cover partnership, as the original centre back took a more aggressive role, stepping forward to win the ball with strong tackling and tight marking of the opposition, as the stopper. Whereas the ball-playing centre back sat slightly deeper, zonal marked and picked up any loose balls that the opposition had played.


When to Use It

The stopper/cover partnership works well with:

  1. A normal or deep defensive line
  2. Any play style (e.g. counter-attacking, possession based)
  3. When up against 1 striker (as the stopper will mark him, and the cover will be free to anticipate and intercept through balls from the opposition)
However it doesn't work well with:

  1. A high defensive line (if you play a high defensive line, then their is a lot of space in between the defence and goalkeeper which the opposition can run into when receiving a through ball, this is usually countered by the offside trap but if the cover centre back is sitting slightly deeper, he will play the opposition on side and the offside trap won't work.)
  2. Against more than 2 attackers (they will just get overloaded because the stopper can only mark one player at a time so if they're up against 3 forwards, then the player in cover position will have to much to do and the system will be ineffective.)
Legendary stopper Jaap Stam
Advantages and Disadvantages

+ It's versatile since it can be implemented into many formations and playing styles
+ The system can easily stop one striker
+ It sets up counter-attacks well (the stopper wins it, quickly gives it to the covering CB who plays a counter attacking through ball, all can be done within 5 seconds.)
+ It creates two lines of defence (this means that if a striker gets passed the stopper, then he will also have to get passed the cover, whereas in a straight defensive line, if a forward gets passed one defender, he is usually completely through and onto a one-on-one with the keeper.)


- The stopper can get dragged out of position (if he is marking a false 9 who drags him out of position, another attacker can run into the space and then the cover is on his own with no help.)
- It requires specialist players (e.g. the stopper has to be strong, brave, and a good marker whereas the covering CB has to be fast, have good anticipation and concentration.)
- You can't use it with a high defensive line (explanation above)




In-Game Analysis

For an example I decided to use the two players at the top of this page, Thiago Silva and AC Milan legend Alessandro Nesta, the former being the covering CB, and the latter as the stopper. This pair is an almost perfect combination, as both players are really well suited to their roles. Nesta is the left sided centre back, Silva is the right.



As the renowned Juventus goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon hits the ball upfield, Thiago Silva has already used his great anticipation (17), concentration (15) and acceleration (16) attributes to quickly read the game and get into a covering position, whereas Nesta has also read the situation and moves forward to try and challenge for the ball against Juve striker Amauri, this also requires the attributes anticipation, concentration and positioning.




As you can see, Nesta has used his bravery (16) aggression (15) determination (18) strength (14) and jumping (15) to step forward and make an attempt to win the ball. His partner Thiago Silva has stepped back so that if by chance Nesta and Amauri miss the ball, he will collect it and my Milan team will keep possession and look to build an attack.



The Brazilian isn't needed however as Nesta wins the ball, gives it to van Bommel and now we can build an attack from the defence.


The Roles

My Stopper Role
The higher closing down (on stand off for team, 2 notches up from standard) is so he steps forward to deal with threats, man marking is so he sticks to the forward, and short passing so we retain possession once he wins the ball.
My Cover Role
Not many tweaks with this role, 1 notch lower mentality so he gets into a deeper cover position, with through balls often he has a chance to play a counter-attacking through ball. Make sure he is on zonal marking.





Football Tactics From A Terrier!
Could you advice me on how to set up the stopper/cover combo with Arsenal my defenders are Vermalean, Mersacker, koscielney, and Djhrou. Also in the premier league a lot of teams play 442 with two strikers do you think the stopper combo would work well in the premier league.
 
Jun 10, 2012
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Well if you played stopper/cover, Mertesacker would be the stopper on limited defender and Vermaelen would be BPD cover, but the best defensive set up against a 4-4-2 is actually to play a 3 at the back so you always have a spare defender. If you were to play this with Arsenal, you would use Vermaelen at LCB on CD/Stopper Alex Song at CB on BPD/Defend and Koscielny at RCB on CD/Stopper.

It would work by your LCB and RCB man marking their strikers, and the CD sweeping up the loose balls, like a stopper/cover but with two stoppers, you could also use it with a high defensive line and offside trap (if they have slow strikers, or are very good at heading, if you are playing on a very big/long pitch) with the CD playing on a slightly higher mentality than his teammates in defence so he won't play anyone on side and will be a sort of 'reverse sweeper' and will look to intercept any balls before they reach the strikers. This requires a good anticipation, concentration, acceleration, positioning, marking, first touch and passing (Alex Song has a good attribute in all of these). One of the most important things to note in this set up is that your LCB and RCB will be man-marking, whereas the central defender will be on zonal marking.

You can stick with the stopper/cover but I suggest at least trying this defensive strategy first.
 

connort787

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Jan 4, 2012
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Hi tacticalterrier

Could you help me set up my liverpool tactic

I want to play 3 at the back but unsure about the rest. Could you give me some help by reconmening the formation andd player roles as well as your player combos. Could you also help with the team instructions

Top Man. Thanks
 
Jun 10, 2012
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**Sorry for the lack of posts recently, I've been very busy with exams but now I'll be back on track with frequent articles hopefully**

The Deep Lying Forward/Poacher Partnership




To win games, you must score goals. As much as I dislike that statement, it is true and even in the great systems recognised for their defensive qualities such as the catenaccio, the attacking aspect was just as important. In fact, for defensive teams, their attack is much more important than for teams who focus on possession since counter-attacking teams get less chances during a match, therefore their attackers have to create, and take their chances whereas teams who pass the ball around such as Barcelona, create more chances for their attackers to pounce upon, so they don't need to be as efficient. Attacking set ups can come in many varieties; the classic target man & poacher, and the inside forward & target man partnership for example, but in this article I will be covering the deep-lying forward & poacher combination notably seen in Wayne Rooney and Javier Hernandez' strike partnership at Manchester United.

How It Works


Against two centre-backs is when this set up works best, as the DLF (deep-lying forward) drops into midfield, bringing the man marking centre-back with him to leave a gaping hole in the defence, which the poacher sprints into making for an easy through-ball. If the opposition use a zonal marking defence, then the DLF just drops into space and can orchestrate attacks himself in between the lines, this makes this system very hard to play against.





Advantages and Disadvantages

+ When playing a 4-4-2, the DLF can act as an extra man in midfield and, with his high closing down, will help the men in the centre of the park by pressing the opposition and forcing them to make quick passes, which usually ends up in a loss of possession.
+ Whether the opposition play zonal marking or man marking, the combination will always be a threat to them (explained earlier)
+ Because of the first point, it makes the 4-4-2 able to compete against more modern formations such as the 4-2-3-1 as one of your strikers also plays as a midfielder at times
+ Since you have one player who can play two positions almost simultaneously, it makes the whole system very versatile, allowing quick changes in formation during the game without you having to manually change it. (when in attack, a 4-4-2 will become a 4-2-2-2 as the wingers will be pushed up and the DLF will play just behind the poacher but it will be a 4-5-1 in defense as the DLF drops deep to come into midfield.)

- Sometimes the poacher will get shut out on his own whilst being against a more organised defence when the DLF drops too deep.
- You rely on the poacher for the majority of the goals
- The DLF can be rather ineffective if the opposition play a zonal marking system along with a CDM, as the space he drops into will be filled by the player
- It's only really effective against 2 centre backs (against three centre backs leaves the poacher against 2 other defenders and no space to run into)

In Game Analysis

For the example of this set up in a match scenario I will be using Javier 'Chicharito' Hernandez and Wayne Rooney of Manchester United, because they are near perfect for their respective roles but more significantly, Sir Alex Ferguson used them in this set up. As you have probably guessed, England forward Rooney will play the DLF role whereas Hernandez will use his pace and great off the ball movement to full effect in the poacher slot.


We start off with Rooney picking up the ball in between the lines of the opposition midfield and defence, to get into these areas he has to have a good off the ball attribute (17). Notice how the opposition RCB has started to go forward to close him down, in the next shot you will see him do this fully and the consequences it has.


The opposition defender in mention has now been dragged out of position leaving a huge gap in the defence which Hernandez takes advantage of and runs into, this requires a good off the ball (18), acceleration (18) and teamwork (15). Rooney spots his teammate's movement and feeds him with an accurate through ball with his great passing (16), creativity (16), teamwork (18) and decisions (15). In the space of less than 5 seconds, we have gone from Rooney picking the ball up in midfield, to Hernandez charging through the defence towards the opposition keeper.

The Roles


The Poacher - This role has been edited quite a bit from the default poacher set up, firstly I have placed him on the highest mentality because his only job is to score goals and he needs to sit on the defenders shoulder whilst looking to break the offside trap. I have given him a low creative freedom because I want him to stick to his one job and let his teammate do the creative work. Despite most poachers in FM being on the max closing down, this is the opposite of what happens in real life; the poacher is a very lazy player, he doesn't do any defensive work and whilst his team doesn't have possession, he looks to find space to make runs into. I have put the 3 player instructions on rarely so, again, he sticks to his one job and kept the runs from deep and run with ball at often so he looks to make runs in behind the defence. The passing is on as short as possible so his role is simple.


The Deep Lying Forward role is, on the other hand, quite similar to it's default version. I have made the mentality a lot more defensive to ensure he drops well into midfield to create space and drag players out of position. He has been given a lot of creative freedom to make up for the lack of it in the poacher and generally, the deep lying forward should be a creative player, orchestrating attacks from the hole between the opposition midfield and defence. His long shots have been kept to a minimum because, for one I don't like my players shooting from 30 yards out and wasting possession, but more importantly, he might look to take a long shot when Chicharito is open for an easy through ball to set him in on goal, and I don't really want to be having to buy a new laptop screen any time soon.

Hope this has given you more info on the Deep Lying Forward/Poacher combination, like I said earlier, there are a lot of combinations in attack and this one certainly isn't the best for every situation. Sorry for the lack of uploads recently but hopefully I will start getting them up frequently. If you enjoyed this post please follow me on twitter at https://twitter.com/tacticalterrier and take a look at my other articles on my blog at Football Tactics From A Terrier! Thanks for reading!
 

gunnerjames

Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Hey I had Gervinho on the left as Inside Forward - Attack and Walcott on the right as Winger - Attack to provide width, Song is an Anchor Man but you can give him more freedom if you like. Yeah he does, I just changed his mentality to a more defensive setting so he dropped deep. FYI, to get someone to play like a false 9, trequartista would be much more suitable.
Hello mate could you post a picture of the player instructions that you give to Van Persie to ensure that he drops deep. Also I have bought in leandro damiao and Oliver Giroud who are two big strikers. What roles would you give them on how would you set them up in a 451/433 system with Gervinho plaing as a inside forward and Walcott playing as a winger bought on attack duty.
 
Jun 10, 2012
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Hello mate could you post a picture of the player instructions that you give to Van Persie to ensure that he drops deep. Also I have bought in leandro damiao and Oliver Giroud who are two big strikers. What roles would you give them on how would you set them up in a 451/433 system with Gervinho plaing as a inside forward and Walcott playing as a winger bought on attack duty.
Hey, the PIs for RVP are pretty much the same for the one I gave Rooney in my recent post, they'll work the same anyway. Um they'd both play well as target men but I'd suggest having Damiao in a similar role to RVP, but try and concentrate him on holding the ball more and bring others into play, so tick 'Hold Up Ball' for a start, I'll let you figure the rest... As for Giroud, he's figured more to a Target Man, but I doubt that would suit your style of play, assuming you like to control the game but if you play counter attacking he's more suited than RVP, though you could concentrate attacks down the right and get Walcott putting crosses in for him.

Anyway, from what I've just told you I think you can make the decision yourself, as I know too little about the rest of your team to make a strong decision.
 

gogogo golem

Member
Mar 15, 2012
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I want to play 3 at the back but unsure about the rest. Could you give me some help by reconmening the formation andd player roles as well as your player combos. Could you also help with the team instructions
I'd suggest that you use 2 stoppers and 1 cover with Defensive Winger Attack in wide midfield slots.
 
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