The UK Politics Thread

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epic terrorist

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So yesterday was a big day and by a narrow margin the Brexit campaign won the vote to leave the European Union. This leaves a great deal of uncertainty going forward and this morning the political fallout has begun with David Cameron announcing his resignation of his position of Prime Minister, we have also seen billions wiped off the FTSE and the pound is at its lowest level since 1985.

I will post my personal opinions in the next post but I think this one should serve as laying some ground rules

1. Don't attack anyone over their decision or opinion to leave or remain, it is their opinion and we live in a democracy

2. No racist bollocks when talking immigration, racism is not tolerated in the site rules anyhow but just asimple reminder

3. Try to be civil, I know politics is always divisive,

I will add more rules if necessary and I am sure mods will intervene where necessary.

Edit - Seeing as we are a few weeks on from the referendum and given how popular this thread has been with forumites I have decided to make this thread a more general politics thread, we have had some good politic chatter in this thread so it seems a shame to let that peter out. So yeah this is now the one stop shop to speak politics/realpolitik on FM-Base long may this thread continue
 
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The whole 'leave' campaign has been under pinned on racist bigotry. It's hard to avoid it.
 
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I voted to remain mainly for economic reasons, that should have been the main argument on both sides the economics but we got directed into some Hard Right discussion on immigration and they seized upon peoples fears about immigration and threw around the lie of the £350 million pound a week figure. And if I am honest this is what worries me about this whole thing the mainstream attention that the hard right has got.

The thing is used correctly and if we had people in charge of the country who wasn't inept this vote could have been used to reshape the political landscape, offer true political revolution. The things people are angry about are not even Europes fault it is down to be ****** over by Thatcher, a central/right blair labour government and then the blue ***** yet again. What is needed is political reform but it is scary how politically unaware people have become. They readily accept the redtop notion that we need to blame other poor people for our problems.
 
Congratz Britain. You'll flourish now with your own industry and independent economy.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
The whole 'leave' campaign has been under pinned on racist bigotry. It's hard to avoid it.
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I meant in the sense if we have right wing people and want to be racist (not to say all right wing are racists), I think that slating how the leave campaign has portrayed immigration is a valid talking point and criticism. It has been a joke that someone like Farage and his party of shamed and failed tories arew going to get so much traction out of this
 
While the 'rational and intellectual' decision would have been to vote Remain, I think political parties have made too many assumptions of how the average Brit would vote. They probably expected him to vote intellectually but instead have voted on how their personal lives will be affected by the EU. Many saw no benefits to their personal lives from remaining an EU member or associated their relative decline and poverty with the EU.

Solution to all this? Instead of dismissing the voices of people because their concerns are not backed up with intellectual firepower, mainstream political parties should make an effort to understand their mind-set and seek to address their concerns. I can completely understand why the average working-class Brit would vote Leave. Otherwise ultra right-wing populist parties like the UKIP will continue to go from strength to strength.
 
Also for those of us (including myself) who are shocked by the results. I think we should make an effort to ensure diversity of opinion in our social networks both offline and online. Too often, we live in echo chambers that reinforce our own opinions and prejudices.
 
I'll preface this by saying this is a general view and in no way intended toward anyone. But as we're on a democratic forum, all views, so long as they're not personally attacking anyone, should be welcome.


Black Friday.

Embarrassing, depressing, but sadly not surprising from the increasing number of right wing, insular, xenophobic, and yes, in large part racist 'little Englanders' the 'leave' campaign have channeled into and played to. The 'remain' campaign have fudged figures and not run a perfectly upfront campaign themselves; but NOTHING to the extent of the institutionalised lies spouted by those that should know FAR better on the other side. The depths they've sunk to this campaign has been nothing shy of a disgrace. And the fact we've followed the scaremongering, ****-esq propaganda rhetoric of absolute low life POS like Farage, Griffin and Johnson just staggers me. And to now be left with the prospect of PM Boris scares the living **** out of me. Down to Labour not having a leader who can stand up and lead a Country who only works well to small audiences on local issues, as exemplified by his weak *** leadership/ response through this debate; I can see another 20 years of Tory rule. The right have spoken and driven this campaign and Labour has distanced itself even further from it's lost, dissatisfied voters. The future for the North under that absolute imbecile Johnson is frighteningly bleak to say the least.

Within the hour of winning, we had the first massive lie this morning. Farage completely backtracking on one of the main points of the 'leave' campaign. The promise that the £350 million that we 'spend' on the EU (more B/S rhetoric when you offset it what we get back in return) going to the NHS if they won. Which now isn't. I don't think I've ever seen SO quick a backtrack on a major campaign point after WINNING the vote!

The only good I see coming out of this is Scotland are now talking about a new referendum. Which will be great for them to leave the Union and stay in the EU. But will weaken the UK even further.

Terrible, terrible day for the future of this Country from most every standpoint. On a vote I truly don't think should of been placed in an uneducated publics hands. I appreciate we're in a democracy. But something as big as this when it comes to our future standing in the World should be in the hands of those fully informed on every angle IMHO.
 
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**** all these lazy scroungers taking our hard earned tax money and using it to subsidise themselves. I mean, they're not us, they don't vote the same us, they have foreign views, they say that we're all part of the same whole but we know that they're culturally and politically backwards. We don't want them here, why support them?

Say that about immigrants and you have the support of the country. Say it about the North and suddenly people have a completely different view, isn't it odd?
 
epic terrorist said:
you know what is funny, majority of older people claimed that this was a vote for their childrens future so I am just going to leave this here

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Well most of those in the 18-24 category who voted Remain are probably university students who can sermonize as armchair intellectuals. This is not meant to disparage them. Just saying that their decision-making process when voting is going to be bery different from the middle-class brit punching into work at a factory every day with a family to support.
 
Subtle said:
**** all these lazy scroungers taking our hard earned tax money and using it to subsidise themselves. I mean, they're not us, they don't vote the same us, they have foreign views, they say that we're all part of the same whole but we know that they're culturally and politically backwards. We don't want them here, why support them?

Say that about immigrants and you have the support of the country. Say it about the North and suddenly people have a completely different view, isn't it odd?
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I really despair at the attitude of the average Britain. I really do.

It's little consolation, but I'm proud L'pool was one of the very few City's outside London to actually see through the disgraceful rhetoric and remain true to the diverse nature of the make up of cultures within the City and voted to stick with our friends in Europe.

TOO many you feel have voted for COMPLETELY the wrong reasons.

Reap what they sow I guess.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:

Within the hour of winning, we had the first massive lie this morning. Farage completely backtracking on one of the main points of the 'leave' campaign. The promise that the £350 million that we 'spend' on the EU (more B/S rhetoric when you offset it what we get back in return) going to the NHS if they won. Which now isn't. I don't think I've ever seen SO quick a backtrack on a major campaign point after WINNING the vote!
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I honestly think this bit has been blown out of proportion. It doesnt look good that he's back tracked but I think this whole idea was just worded wrongly in the first place.

By not being in the EU, we are supposed to save £350m a week. So theoretically this £350m COULD be spent on the NHS. That was their point. The NHS was the biggest stand point they could use, but they worded the whole thing wrong. The whole of that £350m each week isnt going to go to the NHS, but lets say £150m a week did, with £100m on schools and £100m on housing. Just examples but you get my point.

When everything dies down, and new links to Europe are put in place, lets see where all this money goes. If it does go into the NHS and School's, and we can actually see a difference the money is making in normal average person terms (getting hospital/GP appointments quicker, children getting their first choice school places, tighter immigration), then people will be a lot happier.
 
Well the ripple effect has already spread to other nations, now wanting referendums. People have wholly underestimated the effect of the result of the referendum. Say for example, 4 nations in the EU tomorrow gave in to peoples demands, had a referendum then voted to leave (purely example-unrealistic perhaps yeah but still), the economic effects further down the line would be absolutely catastrophic, which would take many years to recover from, not just in the UK but throughout the whole of Europe. Everything from economies, to defense would be affected and that would have far reaching implications on a global scale.

British Airways and other companies are already saying any profits they would have made post-2015 are now completely gone, and that's going to be a similar tale for a lot of companies. There's just so many implications from today the list will still be getting written tomorrow. However, I'm going to be erring on the side of caution until a short while after it calms down following the result, but personally I think it was a mistake to vote for leave. Yes it has been an unhappy relationship at times with the EU, but at the same time it has been beneficial.
 
steveorobbo said:
I honestly think this bit has been blown out of proportion. It doesnt look good that he's back tracked but I think this whole idea was just worded wrongly in the first place.

By not being in the EU, we are supposed to save £350m a week. So theoretically this £350m COULD be spent on the NHS. That was their point. The NHS was the biggest stand point they could use, but they worded the whole thing wrong. The whole of that £350m each week isnt going to go to the NHS, but lets say £150m a week did, with £100m on schools and £100m on housing. Just examples but you get my point.

When everything dies down, and new links to Europe are put in place, lets see where all this money goes. If it does go into the NHS and School's, and we can actually see a difference the money is making in normal average person terms (getting hospital/GP appointments quicker, children getting their first choice school places, tighter immigration), then people will be a lot happier.
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But here is the thing their wont be any money, or if there is it wont be anywhere near the sum of 350m, it was all based on a lie and misinformation. Putting what we paid in and got back out in trade and subsidies for just a moment the renegotiation of the trade bill with Europe will cost money and given what Norway paid when they renegotiated their trade deal we will pay not far off the same what we pay now except we will have none of the say in Europe.

We also won't have tighter immigration if we sign up to a new trade deal with Europe as one of the pre-requisites for signing up is that you sign up to have the freedom of movement within your nation, also take this from someone who has seen first hand what is going on in the NHS you wont get appointments quicker because we have left Europe, that has zero impact on it. The reason people struggle with healthcare is because of the blue bastards in charge not because a polish person came here to work in a factory and pay tax into our system.
 
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