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Trying to Master The 4-6-0 & Tactical Ramblings

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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Umm hello lol... so ill just be here talking about trying to create a good 4-6-0 and other random stuff that i encounter on this long and perilous journey.. lol jokes, but yeah thats it..
You're welcome to comment/contribute/ignore/troll/hate i dont care (K)

Primary goal:
  • Develop a 4-6-0 that will get RESULTS.
Other goals:
  • High possession
  • Solid defence
  • Lots of CCCs....
So pretty much the usual then..


Im using Arsenal (LFC Marshall Aug 18 Database (RVP at MU)).

Sold a few players, signed a few players which you'll see soon and let my assistant take care of all the friendlies.

The formation:
View attachment 269093

EVERYTHING is on default, even the player sliders are unchanged from what they are given when you choose a role for them. Ill watch a few games and then decide on what should be changed.



First game: Arsenal v Norwich
View attachment 269102

Good win, happy with the evenish spread of passing across the team (see reason for Sagnas high passing below).

A few negatives:
  • We crossed too often with not enough people in the box ready to challenge.
  • Too many long shots
  • One CCC came from a Norwich error so creating only 2 CCCs vs Norwich at home isnt enough.
  • Defence pass completed % could be better.
Norwich played very narrow and high and throughout the game had their ML marking my MC, Arteta (Norwich 11 marking Arsenal 8.) This badly congested the middle of the ground and meant my AMC, Carzola was allowed to be picked up by one of their CMs. The consequnce of this was that they left Sagna wiide open pretty much every time we had the ball. If opponents keep doing this hopefully I'll find a way of making my fullbacks take advantage of the space.

View attachment 269098


The second goal was great because it is exactly what i want to happen. It was the 89th minute and Norwich had switched to playing wider to try and get the equaliser. Their ML was back to marking my DR, Sagna which meant we had an extra man in midfield.
View attachment 269099

Sagna got past his marker, passed to 14, Walcott who slid the ball to 7, Rosicky who was able to take the shot with no pressure and score. Rosicky was left open because their 2 midfielders 6 & 24 were busy marking my other 2 midfielders 12 & 31.
View attachment 269101

Game 1 done.. looking forward to playing tougher teams and playing away from home and stuff to see how we go.
So um yeah..

Laters lol

|)
 

Achillies

Member
Jan 2, 2010
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Game 2: Gladbach vs Arsenal
View attachment 269112

Close and even game, could have gone either way. Both their goals came from crosses from the right after their MR had dribbled past my DL, Andre Santos and crossed the ball in. It was disappointing to see Santos let him cross the ball so many times, the goals were bound to come.

View attachment 269113View attachment 269114

Even excluding the corners he had 10 crosses.


Our first goal was from an indirect freekick, the second from a counter attack where Gervinho ran half the field. The third was from a lovely through ball by Ramsey who found Nene cutting in from the left wing and the fourth was Gervinho dribbling past the central defender and slotting it home.
Only the third of these goals had to do with the 4-6-0 formation.. the others just sort of.. happened.



Reasons Why We Had Less Possession.

1. They kept tackling us and winning the ball back in our half. 12 times either around halfway or in our own half to be exact.

View attachment 269115
This is probably becuase i had Frimpong and Vrsaljko playing who are not as good at keeping the ball as Song & Sagna were last game.

2. We didnt press enough and they were happy to pass it around amongst themselves.

View attachment 269116View attachment 269117

As shown here, their 2 MCs were happy to pass the ball to the flanks to their fullbacks and wingers. This is the zone of the field where we have no players and our MCs werent going that far wide to tackle their players hence allowing them to hold the ball and keep possession. Our 2 wingers also do not track back at all to try and win the ball back.


Time to make some changes now before game 3 methinks.. especially to do with the pressing.

Laters :wub:
 

Achillies

Member
Jan 2, 2010
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Minor tactical changes before the third game:
  • Both MCs marking changed to Zonal and closing down 3 clicks short of maximum.
  • AMR & AML closing down changed to 3 clicks short of maximum.
  • Team tempo increased 3 clicks and time wasting reduced 3 clicks to try and stop players getting caught on the ball.
Game 3: West Ham v Arsenal

We won but we deserved to lose, they dominated us up till the 78th minute when Mark Noble got sent off. They had like 58% possession till then and we could barely string together 2 passes in midfield. The final stats are obscured because of the red card.

View attachment 269120

Our first goal was after Podolski received the ball from the throw in at the edge of the penalty area, he dribbled it to the byline, cut inside across the byline and finished from close range.. so again, nothing really to do with the tactic.
West Hams goal came after they had dominated possession at the start of the second half, after so much pressure a goal was always coming and it was from a deep cross after a throw in. Luis Jiminez beat Mertesacker to a header.
Our third goal wouldnt have been scored if it wasnt for the red card. We had that extra man in midfield again and Arteta got the ball without anyone marking him, attempted a long range shot and luckily it went in.

More Reasons Why We Couldnt Keep Possession.

  • Their 4-2-3-1 formation man marked our midfield and took them out of the game.
View attachment 269121(stats up till the 78th minute before red card)

You can see the massive difference in passing stats of the midfielders from the first game to this game. The DMC,Alex Song who had 57 completed passes that game had only 8 by the 78th minute. This forced our defenders to send long balls up to our AMC, Santi Carzola who attempted the most headers in the match from both teams with 9. And that is not something you want happening from a player with 5 heading and 5 jumping.


Time to make some bigger changes to the tactic now and i have a few exciting things planned that will help deal with some of the problems that have risen, so stay tuned!
lolol jokes, that was just the inner TV presenter in me.. i got some **** planned but it isnt exciting.. i mean its football manager tactics.. i guess its pretty exciting if this kinda stuff gets you excited.. to be honest im pretty excited for it.. so you all might be too.. i dunno.. okay im gonna go now.. i was gonna say 'laters' again but i dont want people to start thinking its my 'thing'.. even though it kinda is.. but whatever..

bye! (i was also going to insert a smiley here.. but then that would have been three posts in a row ending with a smiley, so i wont, coz its not my 'thing')

okay bye forreal.
 

Raikan007

Member
Feb 6, 2009
20,597
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38
this will be invaluable to newcomers to possession tactics if you get it right mate :) good to see the faults and things that work!

I will follow this, let me know if you want any tips :)
 

Achillies

Member
Jan 2, 2010
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this will be invaluable to newcomers to possession tactics if you get it right mate :) good to see the faults and things that work!

I will follow this, let me know if you want any tips :)
Cheers mate!

Just one thing, how do you enlarge the screenshots on the post itself so people dont have to click them and go to a different tab to see them.
 

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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The Changes:

Team Instructions:
View attachment 269179
Just the usual changes to ensure we get and keep possession. Philosophy to fluid, strategy to control, passing to shorter and closing down to press more.
I also switched counter attack to yes so when we counter the 2 MCs will join the wingers and make runs all the way into the box, giving us more crossing options.


Goalkeeper:
  • Changed his distribution to 'Defender Collect' pass to DL, Bacary Sagna. Obvious change, didnt want him sending long balls to my AMC anymore.
DR/L:
View attachment 269185
  • Runs from deep to often so they move further up the pitch and be available for passes, helping us retain possession.
  • Cross ball to rarely since we rarely have anyone in the box and also long shots to rarely as long shots have a low success rate and give away possession.
DCs: No specific changes.

DM:
  • Long shots to rarely.
CMs:

View attachment 269186
  • Swap position with each other to disrupt opponents man marking systems.
  • Roam from position to yes, this one is important as they will now drop back further to available to receive passes from my fullbacks and also push up further into the final third.
  • The mentality is a few clicks down so that they come and receive the ball from the fullbacks rather than just moving up the field.
AMC:
  • Roam from position to yes.
  • Changed duty from attack to support - His creative freedom changed from maximum to a few clicks short of it, his run with ball changed to sometimes and his marking changed to man and tight marking to yes. Hopefully this means he'll drop deeper when we're defending and once we win the ball back he'll be available for short passes.
AMR/L:
  • Changed wide play from cut inside to move into channels. what was happening was that theyd cut inside and be picked up easily by the 2 opposition CBs who had no one to mark. Hopefully move into channels sees them move into the space between the opposition fullbacks and centre backs and be available for more through balls.
  • Long shots to rarely.
  • Cross ball to rarely.
looking forward to playing the next game now and seeing how these changes effect the on-field actions of the players.
 

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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Game 4: Arsenal vs Gladbach

View attachment 269208

They played totally the opposite from how they did the first game, they sat really deep and very narrow and barely looked to attack at all. Looks like playing weaker teams at home will all end up like this.

View attachment 269209

We scored from a penalty after Mertesacker was fouled in the box during a free kick.
Cant really complain with the shots we got at goal.. breaking down a team playing 5-3-2 is difficult with any formation let alone a 4-6-0.
Observations:

1.Our CMs and AMC getting marked out of the game.

View attachment 269210

Because they had 3 CMs they could man mark our 2 CMs and AMC. This left our DM and DR/L with a lot of space throughout the game, which is why their passing stats are so high.

2. DM sitting too deep resulting in crosses.

View attachment 269211

You can see the DM sitting wayy back in front of the 2 DCs. This limits the passing options of my DR and AMR and they are forced to try beat their man and cross the ball.

View attachment 269212

My fullbacks and wingers crossed the ball 13 times (even though both their crossing sliders are set to rarely), of which only 1 was successful. We're pretty much handing away possession. If the DM moves up further and is available for the pass these wide players might stop running with the ball and crossing so much.



Changes to the DM coming up.
 

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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Im thinking of doing 2 things.

1.Setting the DM to a deep lying playmaker with roaming enabled so he drifts from sideline to sideline receiving passes from the full backs and also moves further up the pitch when we are attacking.

2.Moving the DM up to form a flat 3 man central midfield. He'd still be defensively orientated but his higher position on the field would mean he'd be available for more passes in the final third.

If you have any opinions/suggestions/questions, lemme know (H)
 

SUSAltd

Member
Jul 29, 2011
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The AMC should be a Trequartista; he plays slightly higher than the other AMC roles but not as high up as a striker. This also means that he makes forward runs rarely to ensure that he does not push high up against the defense like a "normal" nine would.

And having the "Comes Deep to Get Ball" PPM is crucial for a false nine because he comes deep to get the ball.
 

Montanaro

Member
May 27, 2009
3,850
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Interesting to watch the transition from Tiki Taka to strikerless formations. This forum is an exhibition on evolution.
 

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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Game 5: Arsenal vs QPR

View attachment 269216

We won 7-0!! 4 goals to the AMR, Nene and 3 goals to the AMC, Carzola!

I changed the AMC from Advanced Playmaker to Trequartista as suggested by SUSAltd and it worked very well.
I also moved my DM into the CM spot and this had a big part to play in the goals.

The first 2 goals went perfectly to plan.

Goal 1:

View attachment 269218View attachment 269219View attachment 269220

Due to my pressing, the QPR GK is forced to send a long ball which is won in the air by Mertesacker and passed to Alex Song, my central CM who has no one marking him as the 2 QPR MCss are occupied marking my other 2 MCs. Their DC (number 35) comes out to tackle song leaving a gap in the defensive line. Nene makes an inside run into the gap as Song plays a short pass to Carzola who plays a through ball into Nenes path, who scores.

Goal 2:

View attachment 269221

My AML (number 29, Podolski) passes it to my AMC (number 12, Carzola) who dribbles towards the centre of the pitch, this forces the QPR DC (number 17) to come out of his line and try tackle Carzola. This results in the other QPR CD having to cover the space of both CDs so he moves inside. This leaves a gap for my AMR (number 18, Nene) to run into, he makes the run, Carzola plays a perfect through ball into his path and he scores.

Too many long shots:

View attachment 269222

because Carzola was playing in the gap between the defence & midfield, whenever he got the ball he had time to turn and because of his long shots PPM decided to take the shot.. which is annoying since it wastes possession.

One of his goals was from a direct free kick, the other 2 were in the second half when QPR had changed formations and put a DM on him. He had escaped his marker, run into the box to be found by 2 passes by my AMR resulting in 2 goals.


5 games played, 5 wins so far.. we havent really faced any tough oppositions yet. That is too change though, we're playing Manchester United next at Old Trafford. Dont wanna miss that eh :p
 

pochengere

Member
Aug 21, 2012
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This also means that he makes forward runs rarely to ensure that he does not push high up against the defense like a "normal" nine would.
 

Achillies

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Game 5: Manchester United vs Arsenal

View attachment 269280

Interesting game, just by looking at the stats it seems United dominated but that wasnt the case. I have quite a few things to mention so ill just bullet point them.
  • The own goal and the goal by Hernandez were both from corners. (2 of their CCCs were also from corners)
  • The goal by Rooney was after an error by Sagna, he was passing back to the keeper and Rooney got in and intercepted in. (Another CCC)
  • Their other 2 CCCs were on the counter, I hadnt changed any set piece settings at all but i will do so now to ensure we dont just have one defender back..
  • So the open play defence was pretty pleasing, we forced them to either shoot long or pushed them out wide to the bylines which is why they had 9 long shots and 10 corners.
Why We Couldnt Hold Possession:

  • If you look at the stats you'll see our defenders had 59% pass completion, this is the worse its ever been and it was due to the intense pressing by Man Utd. Even though we had extra men in midfield they rushed up on our defenders so fast they had to boot the ball upfield as they didnt have the ability to hold the ball and wait for any of the 3 midfielders to drop back and be available for a pass.
View attachment 269281
  • On that point, i could have had Song back at DM so he was available more often, but having 3 MCs creates so much for me attacking wise (as to be shown with our goal analysis) i dont think i will change it.
  • You can see our MCs only had 20ish passes each, which is a shame because when they were passing it amongst themselves they looked so dangerous.
Second Goal:

View attachment 269282

Alex Song had just won the ball high up the pitch (which is why all my MCs are so high up) and passed to Mulumbu, who found Ramsey who flicked onto an unmarked Carzola who got a free run at goal and scored.
Utd were obviously zonal marking which proved their downfall in this situation, our midfield players had overloaded their defenders and all we had to do was find the extra man. Its a shame we couldnt keep the ball more in their final third or this would have happened more often.


Other notes:

- My AMR and AML were really ineffective which has been the case most games.. they get the ball and run down the wing, they either get tackled by the opposition fullback or cross it no one, ill be looking to tweak/completely change them.
 

Achillies

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Tactical Changes:
  • Defending corners and free kicks now have 3 players set to 'stay back'
  • AMR & AML run with ball set to rarely, mentality pushed to maximum so they stay as far forward as possible waiting for through balls.
  • Counter Attack to off, we were winning the ball back then sending it long to our wingers and AMC who had no chance of winning it in the air. Now hopefully we'll pass it to our MCs and AMC and if the counter is still on he will play a through ball along the ground to run onto.
Arsenal vs Galatasaray

View attachment 269285

Another solid win, in the second half Galatasaray changed from their 4-4-2 to a very defensive, deep, narrow 4-1-1 so nothing happened except our fullbacks and midfield passing the ball amongst themselves.

Goal 1:

View attachment 269287

Similar to a goal vs QPR, our AMC (number 23, Arshavin) ran across field, drawing a DC onto him, the other DC went to cover the space and Arshavin played a through ball to my MC (number 7, Rosicky) who was making the run from deep.

View attachment 269288

Same thing again, Arshavin drew a CB, created space for Rosicky again who was making the run from deep. But this time he couldnt finish.

The wingers are still ******* me off, Ive been trying to make them the main goal scorers but i dont think it'll work out, they rarely come back to make themselves available for the pass and rarely make a dangerous run into the box. I was thinking of moving them to AMCs but this would clog up the middle too much and wouldnt allow my MCs to make dangerous runs as Rosicky did above. For now ill turn them into more support players who come back and offer the fullbacks passing options, especially now that the DM is not there to receive the pass.

K thats all for today.. Cya'z later.
 

Cavanagh

Member
Sep 20, 2009
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Indeed, great thread !!! It's showing the way for mastering the Tactic Creator !!!

Carry on man, we are watching !!! :)
 

Witul

Member
Jan 16, 2011
58
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I have a suggestion with regards to your CM-DM, move song to DM as Deep Lying Playmaker -defend and set the run forward at sometimes.. so that he'll serve as late runner to the box and will serve as a protection for your back four.

I've been making a tactics almost similar to this, but the formation is a 3-1-2-3-1/3-1-2-4-0/4-6-0 formation. I'll post it later like this thread... It's like a trend XD
 

Achillies

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Jan 2, 2010
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Tactical Changes:

View attachment 269421
Heres the changes and explanations:

GK: No changes from default

DCs: No changes from default

DR/L:

View attachment 269419

  • So no changes to any defensive setting for any of my backs or goalkeeper so far. Ive been happy with the defence, we've conceded 6 goals in 7 games with 3 of them being pretty bullshit ones away to Man U.
  • Run from deep often so they move up-field and be available for passes, helping us keep possession.
  • Cross from 'Mixed' because i dont mind if they push up all the way to the opponents if it means us being able to keep possession.
  • Hold up ball also ticked now. These past 6 games, they have looked for passes and if it hasnt been available they've booted the ball upfield. Hopefully now they will hold onto it longer and wait for players to drop back and receive the pass.
BWM:

View attachment 269420
  • Roam from position changed to yes and wide play to move into channels. Hopefully now he will drift wide and support the fullbacks when they have the ball. Not sure if this will happen though, if it doesnt i may change wide play to hugs touchline and see if he drifts wide to receive the ball then.
  • More on his defensive settings coming up when i talk about the other 2 MCs.
MCs:

View attachment 269422
  • I would usually set these guys to a more support mentality, but since they are a major goal scoring threat i've let them stay at attacking. This doesnt work in my favour sometimes as they run away forwards when my defence has the ball leaving them no one to pass to.
  • As you can see, all three central midfielders have exactly the same defensive settings. This should mean that they close down as a team and we dont have Song running past Arteta to the wings to make a tackle which Arteta could have made. This along with zonal marking keeps them in the set formation in which they are prepared to cover all central areas of the pitch in defence and once we've won the ball back, theyre already available for passes.
AMR/L:

View attachment 269423
  • Big changes made to these guys, now instead of being fully focused on attack and scoring goals, they'll drop deep to receive passes and draw out the defensive line with them.
  • Not sure if i should stick with move into channels or switch to cut inside now, ill watch a few games and see how its panning out.
  • Their offensive settings are now all exactly the same as the Trequartista's except for crossing which is still set to rarely.
AMC:
  • No changes from default except long shots to rarely.
  • Isnt the word trequartista weird.. i feel like saying it with without that extra t every single time.. trequarista, trequarista... iduno
and while im rambling.. it sucks that fifas and football managers position names arent consistent.. i keep finding myself typing CAM and RAM and CM and CD and RB instead of AMC and AMR and MC and DC and DR............................... anyyyywayyyyy next game vs liverpool...
 

Achillies

Member
Jan 2, 2010
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I have a suggestion with regards to your CM-DM, move song to DM as Deep Lying Playmaker -defend and set the run forward at sometimes.. so that he'll serve as late runner to the box and will serve as a protection for your back four.

I've been making a tactics almost similar to this, but the formation is a 3-1-2-3-1/3-1-2-4-0/4-6-0 formation. I'll post it later like this thread... It's like a trend XD
Yeh bro, ill look into it.. too early to turn my back on him at MC so early since its been working out alright hah.
Join in yo, the more the merrier.

Being able to implement 3 at the back would provide so much more freedom/flexibility with that extra player! But the opposition AMR/Ls keep raping me whenever i try play 3 DCs :/
 
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