When will Rafa get the chop?

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When will Rafa get the chop?

  • January 2010 transfer window

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • At the end of the season

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • During the transfer window at the start of next season

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • January 2011 transfer window

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • He'll resign at any point this season

    Votes: 8 17.8%
  • He wont, he'll see out the 5 years left on his contract

    Votes: 12 26.7%

  • Total voters
    45
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I voted that he won't get sacked, because I think it would e another example of owners panicking under pressure again. Yes its not going well for him at the moment, and he has been there for a good amount of time now, but I think that he needs to be given proper support from above in terms of not going behind his back with things like they did last season apparently, and with transfer funds.

As this doesn't seem to be happening with the American's up there, maybe its them who need to go. I have no doubt that Benitez is a good manager, A clown couldn't win the Champions League, and a clown couldn't have come so close to winning the league last season when his squad was, lets be honest, a 2 to 3 man team.
 
just wanted to guage opinion. the papers have ran stories about it. even today he's moved to deny he'll be leaving. he's clearly under pressure, look at his meltdown a few weeks back: ''the referee was perfect''

For a United fan you seem very interested in this.. Don't you have your own problems? Like the potential £1Billion debt and retirement of Sir Alex? :)
 
For a United fan you seem very interested in this.. Don't you have your own problems? Like the potential £1Billion debt and retirement of Sir Alex? :)

there are huge problems, i wrote at length in another thread about the glazers and how theyve essentially bought man utd without providing anymore cash than ive got in my bank account. they simply took out a huge loan to buy the club, using the club as a guarantee against that loan, hoping to pay it off with prize money over many years. if the worst comes to it and we 'do a leeds' then the glazers will be able to walk awaty without having lsot anything, they will probably be banned from being heads of companies again, but its not their own money on the line so they dont care. they use united like a play-thing, they 'borrowed' 20million quid last year for 'personal expenses' from a club that they have put into 1billion of debt!!!

if man utd go a season without winning a major trophy or at least getting to the latter stages in europe (god forbid if we didnt qualify) then we will be ******. were strugglig to keep our heads above water atm, and thats with all our recent success and 80million for ronaldo.

so yeah i guess im distracting myself from problems at old trafford.....

i'll only be happy if mourinho replaces fergie.
 
Personally I find this whole Rafa Out thing a bit disgusting. There are no noises coming from the Liverpool camp and he has been repeatedly backed by the fellows in the boardroom. Everything is coming from the media and all of the moronic football fans who have no understanding of how things actually work.

The only really bad thing that has actually happened to us so far this season is being knocked out of the Champions League. But even that comes with the benefit, however small it is, of playing in the Europa League still. We're still in with a shout of a top 4 finish if we can get some confidence and start too pick up some points here and there, it won't be easy now that Man City have a half decent manager though.

An FA Cup run or a League Cup run would of been a nice luxury too have but to me it's not important at all. A good cup run could of given us a nice confidence boost to help with the league, but it could also of given us a lot more injury troubles.

Credit to Reading though, they played both ties as if it was a cup final unlike Liverpool who just looked a bit lethargic in both games. Last nights result wasn't as bad as it first appears, we were missing a lot of key players; Reina, Johnson, and Mascherano all missed out with Gerrard and Torres both being withdrawn before the second half. It was also a pretty soft penalty that was rewarded to them in injury time, in extra time Yossi had a golden chance to level the game but fluffed it. Aquilani should of had a penalty in extra time too when he was wrestled too the ground.

Anyway back to Rafa, a lot of people simply state that the board are sticking with him because they can't afford too sack him, while it's true they can't afford too get rid of him and bring in a quality replacement it's far from the reason why he's still here. Rafa has shown time and time again that he is among the top managers in the world. One bad season doesn't automatically make the previous five excellent campaigns null.

Being fired for failing too live up to the expectations that your overachieving brings is just idiotic.

just wanted to guage opinion. the papers have ran stories about it. even today he's moved to deny he'll be leaving. he's clearly under pressure, look at his meltdown a few weeks back: ''the referee was perfect''

I wouldn't call that a meltdown, if you consider that a meltdown then surely Fergies press conference after the Leeds match can be considered a suicide.

I for one enjoy Rafa's press conferences, he never gives anything away and rarely says anything of note. It's always the same from him: "We must now focus on the next game". Even last season when we were winning it was the same. I'm glad he employs this tactic in interviews and press conferences because he is constantly misquoted and ridiculed whenever he does actually say something, no matter how truthful it is.
 
yeah fair enough, and im not a huge fergie fan either, due to occasions of media suicide and his one rule for me and one rule for everyone else policy (see extra time for owens goal against man city being approved, but every other bit of added time this season getting absolutely slated by him)

from an outsiders point tof view, rafas media interaction always provides great entertainment.

i think hes a very good manager, hes just lost his way this season. but i fail to see how hes regenerated the youth academy as one poster in this thread has claimed
 
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Lee put it brilliantly. Last season we were magnificant and now people (despite knowing very little about the real circumstances) are calling for his head because of his over achievement last season. Lets look at facts shall we (Excuse the Rafa pun)

1. We were languishing 5th place when Rafa came in, not a proven force in Europe or the league.

2. Year upon year we have improved in the league, proven by last season amassing our record points tally in a leauge campaign, any other season that points total would have won the league.

3. People are saying he is an idiot for letting Alonso go. Now please don't tell me he is the sole reason why we are here. He probably had 2 good campaigns at Liverpool out of a possible 5 seasons. Yes we are lacking a bit in creativity but losing one of the best playmakers in the world will do that to any team. He brought in a good replacement in Aquilani who will obviously take time to adapt to a new league, team and culture. Especially after 8 months out injured.

4. The well renowned quote ''Benitez has built a 2 man team' is completely false', yes you may point to last night and say yes we didnt have any answers when they went off, but we have other top players who should have stood up and been counted (Benayoun, Kuyt). Summed up by last seasons game at Anfield against Man United when we were without Gerrard and Torres.

5. INJURIES have played a big part (At some point this season, we have been without Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Aquilani, Mascherano, Benayoun, Riera, Babel, Gerrard and Torres) Correct me if I am wrong but that is a fair share of our first team squad? Would any other teams cope with losing that many players? Man United have shown that they can't over.

6. Finance were few and far between in this last Summer transfer window, proven by a net profit of around £3 million. He was promised an extra £20 million on top of this but this was not to happen. And because of this he has had to buy players who will do a good job for around £5/6/7m - Agger, Skrtel, Benayoun, Riera, N'gog (£1m) And again they have all been injured at some point this season apart from David N'Gog who let me point out, has a better goals to game ratio than a certain £30m bulgarian striker who plys his trade at Old Trafford.


i think hes a very good manager, hes just lost his way this season. but i fail to see how hes regenerated the youth academy as one poster in this thread has claimed

That would have been me. Under Gerard Houllier can you think of any youth players that came through? Now under Rafa there are youngsters like Pacheco, Darby, Kelly, Nemeth, Amoo, Dalla Valle, Eccleston and Ince all coming through the youth system and you will a lot more about them in the coming years.
 
lol mate united had about 2 fit defenders at one point.
 
lol mate united had about 2 fit defenders at one point.

Man Utd's situation at the time of their injuries was very different too ours. We have used 13 different combinations of defenders this season due to the injuries we've suffered and it's probably the reason why our set piece defending was so woeful, now that injuries too the back line have subsided things have gotten a lot steadier.

Man Utd lost all of their defenders after they'd already built up a lot of momentum from winning games, Liverpool didn't have that luxury. Our confidence was already shot, and when you add in the injuries it makes it hard too turn things around. Especially when things just really aren't going your way.

3. People are saying he is an idiot for letting Alonso go. Now please don't tell me he is the sole reason why we are here. He probably had 2 good campaigns at Liverpool out of a possible 5 seasons. Yes we are lacking a bit in creativity but losing one of the best playmakers in the world will do that to any team. He brought in a good replacement in Aquilani who will obviously take time to adapt to a new league, team and culture. Especially after 8 months out injured.

Alonso's influence and performances for Liverpool seem to just get exaggerated more and more each time Liverpool lose. People do seem to forget how inconsistent and injury prone he was the season when the talks of brining in a more reliable and consistent midfielder, Barry, was linked with us. Apart from last season, and maybe his first, Alonso didn't really play that well for us.
 
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i hope rafa not leaving liverpool.if he leave,liverpool will play better.so better keep this way.
 
Tailspin From the Start

Benítez’s greatest problem all along has been that people – particularly those in the media – haven’t respected his achievements with Liverpool.

For years he’s been treated more like a Christian Gross or Steve McLaren than the Champions League/double-La Liga winner (with FA and Uefa Cups to boot, and another Champions League final). If only Rafa could have had the respect afforded to Harry Redknapp…

If you don’t value genuine achievement, then you are only going to kick up a storm when standards slip. And from the third game of this season, the Liverpool manager was treated as a ‘dead man walking’ by many commentators on the game, with his achievements in 2008/09 used as the rope with which he’d be hanged.

My fear for Benítez has always been the lack of respect the majority of those in the media have for him. This season’s results would test the patience of most fans, and has rightly provided some harsh headlines. The play has been nervy and disjointed. The same players (more-or-less) who did so well last season are now struggling. That’s patently clear.

After those early setbacks – suffered with injuries to many key players – the pressure was ramped up to 11.

But the pressure has been exacerbated by the failure of too many people to value what Benítez had done for the club in the first place; take a dim view of that, and of course you’ll think he’s an absolute idiot now.

Benítez is being talked about as if he has done nothing of value since 2005. I’ve read tons about ‘but for Istanbul…’, as if Rafa is still living on that memory.

Well, after Istanbul the media were saying winning the club its first European Cup for 21 years was “all very well, but doing it over 38 games is where it’s at.”

Last year? While the Reds didn’t win the league, it was without doubt the best effort since 1990. The greatest number of points for 20 years, the fewest league defeats ever, and the league’s top scorers. In 2006 he also posted an 80+ season in terms of points. Both of these seasons rank in the top six in the club’s history in terms of the amount of available points won in a season.

He did so both times with a wage bill and squad cost that suggested the Reds were punching well above their weight. But it could not match the glories of the past, against which all Liverpool managers are harshly judged.

At the time of last season’s excellent title challenge (possibly even exceptional, given the resources and injuries), the Reds were ranked the #1 side in Europe, based on results purely over his time in charge. But Liverpool have only that 2005 trophy to show for it.

But if a trophy went to the best team over a five year period, instead of just who had the best year – which, as it’s a greater period of time is therefore more of an achievement – then Liverpool would have been rewarded for a truly outstanding string of results between 2004 and 2009. It doesn’t work that way. But it’s worth pointing out.

Personally, I take these as the markers of consistency. Nothing was won, but it was a great achievement. It means a million times more to me, in terms of telling me how good a manager is, than, for example, winning the Carling Cup.

It now seems a distant memory. And in some ways it is. But why is it already written out of the history books by so many?

This was Liverpoool’s first season of European failure since 2003/04, and it was treated like it was nothing more than a Benítez side deserved; after all, he’s not a very good manager, etc, etc..

Apparently, according to the public at large, if he hadn’t brought the Reds that amazing success in Istanbul, Benítez would have been sacked long before now.

Well, he did.

Similarly, if Ferguson hadn’t won the FA Cup in 1990, he’d have been out of a job, with a CV that read four years at United, no trophies. And we’d have been talking about him now as an utter failure, who spent three of his first four years in the bottom half of the table. Times change, but that’s how it was.

It doesn’t mean that Benítez can replicate Ferguson’s turnaround, but it does show that getting a massive club to achieve big things after years in the doldrums is a gargantuan task.

If we’re going to play the ‘what if’ card, then say United drew just two games they were fortunate to win last season; off the top of my head, at home to Spurs, when the referee handed them the game on a plate, is one of them.

Now, I accept the flaws of what-ifs (there are millions of permutations you can use for or against any situation), and I’m not saying that United didn’t deserve the title; they won it, end of story. But just say they’d fallen a fraction short in a couple of games – not ten, not 20, but two – then Liverpool would have been crowned champions.

It didn’t happen, but it isn’t stretching the imagination to say that it was possible.

We’d now be talking about Benítez having ended a 21-year wait for the European Cup and the more noted 19-year wait for the league title. He would, without question, be a bona fide legend. He’d have the keys to the city right now. That’s how close he was to being up there with the club’s legendary managers.

He just happened to have the ‘bad luck’ of a dominant United side just pipping his side; some years there are teams who can rack up 90 points, as United did, while other years there are not.

Put it like this: say Alex Ferguson, at United in the early ‘90s, had to overcome the equivalent to the 2009 version of himself; instead, he had to overcome Graeme Souness. Now say that last season Benítez had to overcome Graeme Souness as United manager; suddenly it’s less daunting.

All of this constant demeaning and devaluing of the good work Benítez has done has led to hysteria, which has led to more pressure, which has led to more hysteria, and so on. A negative cycle. Last season, after thrashing Real Madrid, Liverpool enjoyed a positive cycle. That’s football in terms of form and confidence.

The Reds are in some kind of tailspin, and have been ever since losing those games at the start. It was built into a massive deal because, shock horror, Liverpool only lost two games all of last season. (As I’ve stated before, this was noted, without irony, while ignoring what an achievement that was in the first place.)

Perhaps tailspin is the correct metaphor. The most dangerous time for a plane? On, or just after take-off.

At 30,000 feet, a plane can suffer any number of problems – failure of all four engines, pilot sucked out the cabin – and still land safely (true stories). At 30,000 feet, you have all that altitude.

At 30,000 feet you can afford to coast; there’s nothing to crash into. And if you start plummeting, there’s plenty of time to pull the nose up.

But this season, Liverpool never quite got into the air. Most of its engines (or engine-room, if you use the football parlance) were faulty, burnt out or missing. An injury crisis was like serious damage to the wings.

And some truly atrocious refereeing (beach ball goals, at least ten valid penalty shouts waved away, mostly at crucial junctures, so that Liverpool have actually conceded more spot-kicks this season than they’ve won) has been the equivalent of a technician’s faulty wiring. After all, that’s one thing that’s certainly not the pilot’s fault.

Manic pulling at levers saw the plane gain some height, but panic and pressure all around meant that it was never enough. And, dangerously close to the ground, crashing and burning was a warning everyone has had to face up to since take off. It’s never left us, since August.

Last season, Liverpool had a similarly duff period during the winter. But at that point the Reds had altitude. There was some panic when drawing too many games at home, but it wasn’t “we’re all gonna die!” As such, it was easier to get out of.

To complete the metaphor, if Benítez can successfully land the plane (see out the season), then just as form changed dramatically from one season to another, it can do so again. At Valencia his title-winners fell to 5th the following season, 18 points adrift. A year later they won the league again, in greater style than the first time, and also added the Uefa Cup.

But he has such a mountain of negativity against him at Liverpool right now that my greatest fear is that he will never be allowed that chance. I’ve always maintained that one bad season is excusable, but that two in a row (Houllier) is valid grounds for dismissal. Wenger had a bad season last year, although he pulled it around in the new year.

Rafa has to take some responsibility for the dire run of just six wins in 20 games. That’s the way the game works, even if he, like any manager, can be excused for not knowing what’s going wrong. (As Steve Coppell said a few weeks ago, sometimes you just don’t know what to do next to try and stop the rot. It must take on a life of its own, bad bleeding into bad, so that problems sprout up in some many areas, as players lose their confidence and form and feel even more pressure with fan unrest.)

But then so too must the players take responsibility, especially the senior ones, such as Carragher and Mascherano, for their form at the start of the campaign, and Gerrard throughout (even if he’s partially exempted by his own injury problems). Blaming the more junior players like Insua, Lucas and N’Gog, as some have, is ludicrous.

Carragher has been excellent for months now, but just as Mascherano was looking more settled again he got sent off.

I’ll repeat that the injuries and the poor form of some senior players early in the campaign harmed results – as did losing Alonso, and Aquilani taking longer than hoped to get fit – and once results were harmed, getting better results automatically got trickier. That’s a negative cycle for you; a tailspin.

Last night, but for 30 minutes after half-time, Liverpool played like a team fearful of crashing and burning. After all, the world appears to be waiting for it to happen.

I felt that the effort was there (as an example, look at how many times Insua bombs up and down the pitch, or how many times Agger strode upfield with the ball), but the final pass wasn’t good enough. Aquilani played some lovely passes and never hid from the ball, Lucas and Kuyt covered their usual acreage. But a sure sign of low confidence was that no-one was taking on a shot from 20 yards; instead, looking to pass the ball, and the buck. Perhaps understandably, they look terrified of failing, and Benítez’s previously good home record has crumbled in front of dispirited fans.

The future? I still believe Benítez is as good a manager as there is out there. But the entire team is like a striker who’s gone ten games without a goal.

I believe in Benítez’s long-term aims for the club from top to bottom, but if he was a striker, you’d probably want to see him dropped to the bench to sit out a few games; ‘give him a break’. But that doesn’t happen with managers. They either stay or go; you can’t call upon them again when things have calmed down.

So you must decide if the short-term fix a new manager brings is worth the unsettling of a longer-term vision. As ‘Soccernomics’ notes, new managers cost money – not least in terms of wanting their own players.

But if Benítez had been backed to the hilt financially this summer, rather than forced to buy last-choice options like Kyrgiakos, maybe he wouldn’t have been in this predicament in the first place.

But that’s the crazy nature of football.

Source
 
Did i just read someone say Benayoun and Kuyt were top players? LOL XD
 
Wow Lee, essay much?
At the end of the day, whether he should be sacked or shouldn't be sacked, it makes no odds what we say. The Liverpool know best for Liverpool Football Club, and they are the only ones that know what is really going on behind the scenes.
If he does get the sack, I've got a feeling it won't be only to do with the bad results and form.
He probably shouldn't get the sack, and if you listen to all the talk from people about him getting the sack, NONE of them are Liverpool fans which kind of tells a story in my opinion.
 
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A Club spokesman said: "Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres both underwent scans earlier today after coming off in the FA Cup tie against Reading.

"Steven has a hamstring strain and will be out for a fortnight, while Fernando has torn a cartilage in his right knee. The injury will require surgery and he is expected to be sidelined for six weeks.

"Yossi Benayoun also suffered a fractured rib in the game and will be unavailable for between three and four weeks."


Looks like Rafa is in for a tough few weeks.

Wow Lee, essay much?

I didn't write it, someone else did. But it sums up things better than I ever could.
 
Gutted on Liverpool with the injuries. He's lucky he's completed the deal for Maxi, of course it does only slightly ease those problems.. but he's a quality player.
 
This is my view on it, ''If he is not the right man for the job now, well was he the right man for the job in august?'' And most football fans would have said yes. I know it's more than 'just a bad run', but I can see it changing. The thing is with L'pool this year, they have to play really well to win a game, wheras teams like Chelsea and even Arsenal on occasions, can win without playing well. Surely the luck must change around. You can't suddenly turn from title challengers to europa league stars in 6 months, without selling a considerable chunk of the team, which Pool did not do. I do hope for the sake of one of the biggest clubs in England that they finish in the top four. Actually, this is a similar situation to one in which Arsenal were in a few years back. We were around 6th all year, then nicked 4th on the last day. Now who goes on about Arsenal 'Meltdown'. There is not a Liverpool crisis, please give me a break. When Rafa took over, Liverpool were a villa/everton kind of team, not always securinng 4th, Benitez has made them consistent, surely the only way is up, or is this the furthest he cant take them? I would like to think and hope not. I for one am behind Rafa, and my views there are very mumbled and mishapen as I just said everything without order. But hopefully you can catch the drift of my opinion.
 
That would have been me. Under Gerard Houllier can you think of any youth players that came through? Now under Rafa there are youngsters like Pacheco, Darby, Kelly, Nemeth, Amoo, Dalla Valle, Eccleston and Ince all coming through the youth system and you will a lot more about them in the coming years.

fair enough, but those guys are hardly a rooney or an owen or a fabregas or a micah richards, bursting onto the scene at a young age are they?
 
It would be silly to sack Rafa I think and you do feel for the players the confidence seems so low. I'd really hate it if City or Spurs took 4th spot...especilly city.
 
What is the point in this thread? Its just Man U fans looking to get one over on the scousers cos theyre having a bad season! Theres still half a season left yet!!

As for Reading, they'll get brought back down to where they belong at the weekend when Forest put 5 past them.
 
I assume the point of the thread is to discuss whether benitez should be sacked or not/ if he will be sacked or not.
 
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