You Need More Than One Tactic!

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rocheyb

rocheyb

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I play as Southampton, so it's a little bit more difficult to start with than being Manchester United or Barcelona, but having had some modest success - and after a bit of a clear-out and some good new signings this past summer - I think I'm finally getting to grips with the tactics functions in FM14.

And, during my current season, I've come to the conclusion that the trick is not to find one supreme tactic to defeat them all but to develop three tactics that you can then select match-by-match, tweaking certain positions slightly as you go to suit individual players and to allow for squad rotation.

WHAT THE MODERATOR SAID

Mike, the moderator on this site, and a guy called Jad (or Jed) who edits the ClearCutChance magazine, advise FMers to play the game in the Comprehensive view - and having followed their advice, I have to say they are absolutely right. Although it takes about 40 minutes per match, you get a much clearer picture of what is actually happening and where the strengths and weaknesses lie for both your team and your opponent.

MY CURRENT STATUS

I'm almost up to Christmas in season 2018/19. I've won 16, drawn 4 and lost 1 of my last 21 matches in all competitions; 2nd in the Premier League (behind Man City on goal difference but with 2 games in-hand); through to the knock-out stages of the Europa League (having won the FA Cup last season and in 2016); due to face Liverpool in the semi-final of the League Cup (twice runner-up):

View attachment 407182 View attachment 407133 View attachment 407132 View attachment 407130

THREE TACTICS

I have been switching between 4-5-1 Assymetric, 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1 V-Shaped Midfield. In preparation for each match, I check the Past Meetings record against the upcoming opponent to see which tactics have worked against them before and browse the Next Opponents scouting report to check for any specific weaknesses that I might be able to exploit during the match, such as what times they are most prone to conceding goals.

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These screenshots show:

- 4-5-1 V-shaped midfield; Won 1-0 vs Arsenal; Premier League (h)
- 4-5-1 Assymetric; Won 2-1 vs Chelsea; League Cup (h)*
- 4-4-1-1; Won 3-1 vs West Brom; Premier League (a)

*That same tactic against Chelsea (who have won two more European Cups and the last three Premier League titles) also came within a whisker of a 1-0 win at Stamford Bridge in the Prem - only for Juan Mata, who is still a Blue in this universe, to score from a corner on 90+3 minutes. Hate this game!

Most of the time, I set the team instructions to CONTROL and BALANCED, but if I consider us to be underdogs against a team that will likely dominate possession, I switch to COUNTER and RIGID (see Team Instructions section, below).

PLAYER INSTRUCTIONS

In all three tactics, the instructions for the goalkeeper and the back four are the same:

- GK (Defend) - Distribute to defenders; Pass it shorter
- RB (Support) - Close down more; Cross aim target man; Pass it shorter*
- LB (Support) - Close down more; Cross aim target man; Cross more often; Pass it shorter*
- CD (Defend) - Close down more; Pass it shorter
- CD (Defend) - Close down more; Pass it shorter

*Pass it shorter not used with COUNTER and RIGID team instructions.

In the 4-5-1 V-shaped midfield:

- DM (Defend) - Tackle harder; More direct passes
- AP (Attack) - More direct passes; Roam from position; Close down more
- BWM (Support) - Hold position; Mark tighter; More direct passes
- AM_L (Attack) - Get further forward; Cross from byline; Cross aim target man
- AM_R (Attack) - More risky passes; Cross from byline; Cross aim target man
- CF (Support) - Pass it shorter; Move into channels

In the 4-5-1 Assymetric, the only differences to the above are:

- DLP (Support) - More direct passes; Close down more (instead of BWM)
- M_L (Attack) gets same instructions as AM_L above
- AM_C (Attack) - More direct passes; Get further forward; Roam from position

In the 4-4-1-1:

- The wingers' instructions are as above, despite being positioned in the midfield line of 4
- The DLP and BWM (Defend) line-up together

In this formation, the No.10 role changes according to whether I consider us favourites and who is playing there. For example:

Clear favourites
- Jay Rodriguez plays as a Shadow Striker with a Deep-Lying Forward (Support) ahead of him
- SS (Attack) - Move into channels; Pass it shorter; Shoot more often

Slight favourites
- Ross Barkley or Adam Lallana operate as Advanced Playmaker with a Complete Forward (Support) up top
- AP (Attack) - More Direct Passes; Roam from position

Underdogs
- Jonjo Shelvey is an Attacking Midfielder with a Complete Forward (Attack) in front of him
- AM (Support) - More Direct Passes; Roam from position; Get further forward

I have three strikers to choose from who are all fast, good in the air with high finishing stats. When I play a Shadow Striker, the Deep-Lying Forward will often work the channels and help to set-up opportunities for the winger to cross to JayRod (winner of the Golden Boot at the 2018 World Cup with 6 goals, helping England to runners-up spot. Lost on penalties, of course).

For a more detailed description of the 4-4-1-1 system, read my other thread: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...1-real-4-4-2-how-i-learned-play-triangle.html

TEAM INSTRUCTIONS

These depend on whether I consider us favourites or underdogs going into the game, with changes during the match when we need a goal or need to protect a slender lead late-on. From left-to-right, these next four screenshots are entitled:

Clear favourites_Attack ; Slight favourites ; Underdogs_Contain ; Protect Lead_All Hands to the Pumps

View attachment 407154 View attachment 407151 View attachment 407150 View attachment 407148

Mentality and Fluidity:

- Clear favourites_Attack - Attacking; Fluid
- Slight favourites* - Control; Balanced
- Underdogs_Contain - Counter; Rigid
- Protect Lead_All Hands to the Pumps** - Defensive; Very Rigid

* This is the one I start with most often
** Switch the full-backs to (Defend); make sure you have a Ball Winning Midfielder in the middle; change one of your wingers to Wide Midfielder (Support) and tell him to Hold position, Cross from deep; switch the No.10 to (Support); Striker can either (Attack) or switch to Defensive Forward (Support), if that's a good role for your individual player.

I can't find one to screen-grab now, but recently after some victories one of the news items is a message hailing my tactical genius and ability to keep the opponents guessing. Nice to be appreciated, even in a virtual world! If it comes up again, I'll edit the screenshot into this post.

AND FINALLY...

The day after each match, I go through the individual player ratings and use the Private Chat function to congratulate any performances of 7.6 rating or higher. This gets the player's confidence up and helps to improve and maintain form - and eventually makes them like you as manager. It is also beneficial to criticise woefully low performances, like 5.5 or lower.

I hope this helps anyone who is struggling with the tactics in FM14. As I said, I've had modest success - it's not as though I've taken The Saints to the Champions League Final - but I do now feel that by applying the kind of tactical choices that I have explained here, and adjusting them during matches, I am getting the most out of this game and making positive progress in my ongoing save.

EDIT NOTE: Several users have requested the downloadable tactics files, so here's the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ew9z0n3d41pzkz/More Than One Tactic.zip
 
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Without having read everything in your post I agree it's beneficial to have 3 formations you can use and three different tactical approaches which fit the players at your club and takes into consideration your reputation and standing in the league.

The only problem for me with FM14 is that I struggle to really get out of my tactics what I want but I'm taking a phase of where I'm watching full games right now to see where I'm going wrong.

I also use almost the same formations as you just instead of the asymmetrical 4-2-3-1 I use a 4-4-1-1 and instead of the 4-5-1/4-3-3 I use a 4-1-4-1 formation.
 
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Another point I found it quite interesting how you use your team instructions and will borrow them for my side but out of curiosity how does your team fair on the yellow card front considering that you use "hassle opponents" and "get stuck in" with all of your team settings?

My players always seem to commit an awful lot of fouls especially against weaker teams that play it very slow and defensively. Do you untick anything if you notice you are getting a load of cards or do you just hope for the best and sub off as many yellow carded players as possible?
 
You're right that you have to select tactics that suit the players you have. I instruct my central midfielders to play direct passes because they all have either "Tries killer balls often" or "Likes to switch play" listed among their individual attributes. If I play a re-gen in those positions who is not so creative, I switch him to shorter passes. Likewise the More Risky Passes instruction for the right winger.

I resisted using 4-4-1-1 for a while, but one of the coaches kept recommending it at the start of each season and it's a good way to get James Ward-Prowse (my best set-piece taker) and Morgan Schneiderlin (my best ball winner) into the team together, while both in their primary positions, and if I play Rodriguez as a Shadow Striker, the formation effectively morphs between 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 during different phases of play.

I like my team to pass the ball, work it wide and get crosses in from the byline and through balls into the channels, and these tactics are achieving that. Originally, I was struggling to recognise how my changes were affecting anything but I think I was issuing so many different instructions within different tactical systems that I was just failing to keep track. As you can see from my original post, these three systems all work off a common base with small variations between them, so when I'm watching a match in Comprehensive view it's easier for me to see how those variations are working for me and to judge whether I need to switch. I've become quite good at judging when to go more defensive and shut-up shop to protect a lead.
 
On yellow cards...

I missed this out of the original post, but after selecting my team for each match, I also set instructions for closing down the opponent's players. All midfielders and forwards get closed down Always and shown onto their Weaker Foot. When we're underdogs, I set tackle instructions to Hard; when we're favourites I set them to Normal. If I see the opposition dominating possession during the match, switching from Normal to Hard tackling on the Opponents tactical screen is usually my first change. When protecting a lead, I switch to Hard tackling and also close down any full-backs with decent crossing ability.

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I used to use Hard tackling all the time and I did have a constant yellow card infestation problem, but since using the Normal option a bit more, it has become more manageable. When you have a squad of 25 players that you are happy with, plus a couple of youngsters who you want to see some game-time, the odd suspension here-and-there is actually quite useful for squad rotation.
 
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Hmm I have actually thrown out my 4-4-1-1 in favor of the good old 4-4-2 because I noticed that quite a lot of teams seem to be Vulnerable to this formation and I only have formations with 1 striker atm so I guess a bit of variety won't hurt.

If I get in a left footed CB I might even try a 3-5-2 next season and use it against two striker formations. I think I read in a Bielsa interview once that he prefers to have a spare man in the center of he defense which means against 1 striker formations he plays a two CB formation and against 2 striker he plays a three CB formation which makes sense imo but like I said I will need a fitting CB for that to fully work I guess.

P. S. a bit sad that we are the only ones talking about this concept of yours because I think it's working really well and solves a lot of the problems many people seem to have with this game and with some more input from other people this could get even better.
 
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When the scouting note says the opposition is vulnerable to 4-4-2, I play 4-4-1-1 with Jay Rodriguez as a Shadow Striker and a very good regen as Deep-Lying Forward. Here's what we did to Aston Villa last night:

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I was thinking of doing a 3-5-2 next season, too - probably in place of the 4-5-1 V. I want to have one formation with a genuine two-up-front and I think it could help more with squad rotation. But I'll need to sign a WB_R, first. A spare man in the centre of defence would be a Ball-Playing Defender - often converted midfielders like Mascherano for Barcelona or Gary Medel for Chile. If successive England managers had the courage to create their own tactics, rather than just go with whatever happens to be en vogue, Rio Ferdinand would have been played this way for years. Too late now, though!

It doesn't matter that there aren't many readers here - but thanks for your feedback. There's a lot to read, but I think and hope that it is useful to anyone that spends the time on it.

Anyway, I've played through the Christmas period and remain 2nd in the Premier League (0-0 vs Man Utd; 1-1 vs Newcastle; 4-1 vs Villa). So Happy New Year and Up The Saints!
 
Yeah I thought about using a 3-5-2 as well. Especially because I like playing three CBs against two striker formations. Having a spare central defender against those formations is always a bonus.

Oh and well done with being top of the league.
 
Btw I also found that getting your d-line height right is soo important in this FM. If you get it right you will see few fouls and non of the dreaded long balls over your head. If you get it wrong the whole game seems to go downhill, you pick up a huge amount of fouls and you will sooner or later get hit on the counter attack.
 
Awesome thread guys made a lot of light bulb's go off I got a good home tactic that I made and notice not good away, reading these threads made a lot of sense about making away and underdog one or more than one tactic would help the AI guessing and finding weakness in one tactic.. I use to be a plug n play guy but I started making my own tactics and agree watch all my games in comprehensive mode and scout reports and learning about OI's helps hugely in fm 14 :) well u guys just inspired me to go make another 2 for my team lol not easy but hopefully rewarding :) awesome read and thread :)
 
Thanks, Celtic Boy. I was just on your thread as it happens. I created a logo for your Steam FC team, although I think you've switched to another team now, judging by your screenshots.
 
Awesome bud thanks :) I still got that save I use it when I get an idea about a crazy tactic I think of at work hahaha 9/10 fail but will find a wacky one lol one thing I have learnt take time for a team to get use to a tactic but gonna try a 4-4-1-1 as I'm a fan of it and a good old 1-4-3-2 (1 being a sweeper)
 
1-4-3-2 has got me thinking. How would that even work? Maybe like this:

GK - Defend
SW - Cover - (can the sweeper be a ball-playing defender?)
CD - Defend - Close down more ; Shorter passes
CD - Defend - Close down more ; Shorter passes
LB - Attack - Cross from deep ; Cross more often ; Close down more
RB - Attack - Cross from deep ; Cross more often ; Close down more
BBM - Support - Close down more ; More direct passes
BWM - Support - Tackle harder ; Shorter passes
AP - Attack - Roam from position ; More direct passes ; Get further forward
DLF - Support - Move into channels ; Shorter passes
CF - Attack - Move into channels; Shorter passes; Shoot more often

Would you use Wing Backs rather than Full-Backs? With five defenders, I don't think you'd need a defensive influence in midfield - just a Ball Winning Midfielder to get the ball back higher upfield. A Deep-Lying Forward (or maybe a False9) dropping from the front with an Advanced Playmaker surging from midfield will help you to break the lines. I could see this system resulting in many crosses with three of your players in and around the box, so your Complete Forward will need to be good in the air.

I'm playing Orlando City next, in pre-season 2019/20 with my now well-developed Southampton squad. I'll try this formation against them and report back (tonight or tomorrow).
 
Well very close to what I was gonna use or try tonight, to my knowledge u can have a sweeper or libero ( more attacking sweeper pushes up on attack and sweeps on defense I may be wrong not sure) might use my CB's one as stopper and one cover if libero pushes up past defense or u could add a DLP midfielder to help out be interesting to figure out???
 
Yes, the Libero is a sweeper who steps into midfield, usually with good long-range passing ability. Franz Beckenbauer was the classic example in the West Germany and Bayern Munich teams of the 60s and 70s. I don't have one of those so I'll put my best passing DM there, instead.

Your Stopper - Cover - Libero combination screams "springs the offside trap" to me; they'll be in a staggered formation with no clear defensive line, leaving space for the opposition strikers to exploit. Maybe the Libero will be able to get across - perhaps your keeper should be a Sweeper-Keeper.
 
I was thinking about that was also gonna do sweeper keeper what u think about AP being in the middle?
 
I'd be inclined to put the Ball Winning Midfielder in the middle. He will be the deepest lying of the three central midfielders, so if you put him on one side or the other, he'll have a long way to travel before he can close down opponents on the opposite side. There's a risk he'll be left exposed with the other midfielders overloading further upfield, so might try the AP as a DLP_Support, too. I'll use the AP to begin with, though, on the left of the three, with the DLF on the right of the front two.
 
Btw I just experimented a bit with a 3-4-1-2 in the a league cup against Newcastle when they went with a 4-4-2 which gave my trusted 4-2-3-1 a lot of trouble. I played pretty much only backup players and don't really care about the league cup anyways so it was a good way to test how 3 CBs would do against two strikers and it worked really well. Dominated the entire game and won 1-3 away from home.

The setup was as follows:

CD(S)--CD(C)--CD(S)
W(S)--DLP(S)--CM(D)--W(A)
EN(A)
AF(A)--CF(S)

​
I think that's going to be my new formation against the pesky 4-4-2 which seems to be the formation my 4-2-3-1 has some trouble with because my two CBs often have trouble dealing with two strikers one on one.

Against the narrow formations my 4-1-2-2-1 still works like a charm but I think about making it actually a 4-1-4-1 which a lot of people have told me works great and Bayern are ripping everything apart with it atm. They won the CL final against Juves 3-5-2 with 1-0 while allowing exactly 0 shots on target so certainly a formation to look at I feel.

Edit: lol ( A ) seems to change to (A) stupid smilies. :P
 
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