4-4-2 tactic with Benitez flavour

[Craven]

I don't know what Zebedee would recommened, but if I was playing a big team at home I'd start out with Standard on extended highlights and adjust to either defensive, attacking or control after I've judged how well/poor my team is playing, it all depends on whether your players decide to turn up for the big game. I'd also use heavy OI recommened in the TT&F document that you can download from this website.

Against teams you should be beating (clear favourite) I'd start with attacking home and control/standard away and again, adjust accordingly. You'll get better advice from Zeb though.

 

[Zebedee]

really simple but, really effective got to say

but i had to do a few tweaks especially on my 'Wingers' giving them a free role dididnt help me because my 'ML' ended up at the other side of the pitch for some reason.

And the other team cardiff took full advantage on the left flank with my winger out of position so really it was 2 players versus my left back who got ripped to pieces dont really blame him.

it tweaked the 'wingers' and unticked the free role and just gave my playmaker the freerole and other than that the tactics are perfect

Glad your solution worked That does sound a little odd though - perhaps it was the player at fault or some other instructions (man-marking? Too much creative freedom? Set-piece taking?)? Hard to tell without full details but glad that you're getting stuck in and customising this to your own team so effectively.

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I used control tactics with fiorentina at home and it worked very good. But I want to ask you witch tactics of those 6 would be best when I play away with palermo,genova , atalanta(teams I want to beat). I tried standard tactics but it didnt work very well for me. Should I also use control tactic or defensive?
What tactic is best when I play Inter,milan,chelsea (defensive or ultra defensive)?
And when they ask me for opponents instructions before the game shold I leave it as it is or shold I set tight marking on their best atacking player?

Craven's explanation is spot on I don't know how the Italian teams play in your game and I don't really want to give 'how to beat X and Y' instructions. These are your calls to make. I do tend to use heavy OI with my weak Bury team - they need all the help they can get. The better the players, the less you'll need to tell them exactly what you want them to do with this mentality system. If one variant isn't working though, quickly figure out why and then change, in-match, to a variant which might work better.

 

[Gatid]

I dunno :|, i have his creative on the middle like i always do, i only give my playmaker creative freedom.

ive never give my players a 'freerole' i dont know what it does is it the same to creative freedom?

because my wimgers had it ticked so thats probs what made him do what he did.

but whatever happened i fixed it

oh, Good tactics

 

[Zebedee]

I dunno :|, i have his creative on the middle like i always do, i only give my playmaker creative freedom.

ive never give my players a 'freerole' i dont know what it does is it the same to creative freedom?

because my wimgers had it ticked so thats probs what made him do what he did.

but whatever happened i fixed it

oh, Good tactics

Free role allows them to move from the wing and escape their marker/s. Although if they're wandering all over the park, you're quite right to take the darned thing off! That usually means the player is at fault for some reason in not getting back to his position (eg low workrate, awful positioning etc). Some players don't suit a free role (and even 5x5? Not sure as I've not seen this happen quite so badly yet but will keep my eyes peeled for it) and need a firmer hand. That's where mentality structures like Martin O'Neil's Rule of One come in, as they dictate firmly where the player should be on the pitch without having to let him use his own inadequate judgement

 

[YounG]

now thats what i call tactical genius! highest level Zebedee! you are the one im learning from, and i learned a lot already. i thought im good as a manager but now i realised that i was so bad before your share. thanx a million mate, you made this game so different for me! obviously the best tactical share ive ever seen

 

[Zebedee]

TT&F are the best tactical share I've ever come across. Any fule can put a formation together and work out the tactics - getting it to work in the match engine is where things go wonky for us all

 

[zENECA]

Hi, I have been using your tactics for my second season with pompey, started them pre season and have carried on into the season. I dont know what is going wrong but i my form is WLLLL i havent won a single league game. I have some very good signings and i just cant figure out what is going wrong. I have tried using the different variants and im still getting beaten by easy teams like Bolton

 

[Zebedee]

Hi zeneca.

I'd need much more info to even hope to try and figure out why things aren't working out. Have a read through the thread as I've posted a fair amount of information and see if there is anything which has already been posted which might be of use (especially post #11).

If there's not, then if you can give me specific examples of how you're conceding, what variant you are using against which team (and the style of football they played to beat you) and what tweaks you have done to the tactics already, I'd be happy to try and help out a little more if I can.

One problem I do tend to notice with players of 'lesser' premiership teams is that they try to play with too much attacking intent as they feel they've improved the squad. That just won't work at the start because your team needs time to gel - especially if you've brought in several new first team players, get used to the system and even then may not perform as well under a new relatively unknown manager for the first season or so.

 

[zENECA]

Hey,
Well i have played a few more games since my post and they where hard games lost 4-2 to man u they ussed a 442 as always lol then 3-2 to chelsea using a 3421 formation with no wingers beat villa 2-1 who fielded a 442 it was a close game and lost to arsenal 2-1 they played a 442. So even tho i have been loosing i think the form is slowly picking up. The only tweaks i have made is from game to game and normally only in game some players do not like the tempo or the direct play and vice versa. oh an yea i have read all you info from the 1st post to the last just starting to read the TT&F

 

[Gatid]

i usualy dont download tactics but i am GLAD to say i have downloaded yours(Zebedee) and lee's(liverpool 1)

both tactics are amazing, but its gave me an idea and i have created my own 442 with a mix of zebedee's and lee's and my unique style into it

lees tactics/notes - taught me how to close a game soo effectively turning passing to short, tempo to slow, time waste, what i used to do is just cross my fingers and pray that i dont let in a last minute goal lol so THANKS lee

Zebedee's tactics/notes - taught me when just started a game and your getting killed you should switch to your defensive tactics and put counter-attacking on which ive never done before, i usually just let the game go on..so THANKS Zebedee

putting all these into account i just created my own

clapping hands(IRL) for zebedee n lee

 

[Zebedee]

Hey,
Well i have played a few more games since my post and they where hard games lost 4-2 to man u they ussed a 442 as always lol then 3-2 to chelsea using a 3421 formation with no wingers beat villa 2-1 who fielded a 442 it was a close game and lost to arsenal 2-1 they played a 442. So even tho i have been loosing i think the form is slowly picking up. The only tweaks i have made is from game to game and normally only in game some players do not like the tempo or the direct play and vice versa. oh an yea i have read all you info from the 1st post to the last just starting to read the TT&F

I'm glad things are picking up and those results are quite close. Close losses against 4 of the top 6 (Spurs tend to do well in 9.2 too) isn't too shabby but it's not great. But I think you're right that there's some hopeful signs there if you're willing to keep tweaking both the tactics ingame and the tactics more generally so that they work better for your players.

With a team like Portsmouth, much like Celtic, that defensive minded midfielder is going to be a very important position. Personally, I'd be playing a counterattacking 4-1-4-1 against 'bigger' clubs - just for that bit of insurance at the back.

Really hope you start picking up points soon though. The TT&F will help a lot with tailoring the tactics to your players and team, so good luck with that .

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Thanks Gatid. I do however have to say it was people like wwfan who stopped me throwing the game away as a totally bizarre waste of time. The TT&F has been such a welcome relief as with 09 (after 3 years of not buying a more recent version than 06) things are becoming increasingly less obvious with tactics and formations. One click here, one click there seems like mad tinkering unless you know exactly what the results will be on the way your team plays. Your thanks are appreciated, and I'm really glad to try and help others who are getting frustrated try to understand the way the interface for tactics works, but really all praise has to go to the TT&F authors.

 

[klaasvd79]

Hey,

I downloaded your tactics, and they work often. I've read the TTF files and start to get a hang of it, i think.
But during the match i sometimes change strategy, if im losing or winning, depends how good everyone plays.
My Assistant manager keeps saying after some games(2 or 3) that we are awfull in short-passing, the opposition has so much possesion because of our short passes.
My question is, why is the passing so bad when i haven't changed anything. Even if i lower the tempo the passes keep being awfull.
I play with AFC Wimbledon in the Blue south division.

Greetings

 

[Zebedee]

Hi klaas,

sometimes your players have bad days. Sometimes the conditions make things too hard for them. Sometimes your players are being given too much time or too little for their ability. A bit of tweaking usually solves this and helps out. As you say, changing the tempo to slower with short passing will help out poor players - but that's not always enough and you'll need to change the passing too.

The AI managers do change to try to beat the tactics so sometimes you have to out-think them and respond or pre-empt their changes.

Hope that helps mate.

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Just a little something for anyone who is interested in the Benitez approach to football: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=231088.0 It's a well-written explanation of the philosophies, principles and intent behind Liverpool's current tactics. Ultimately, that's what I want to replicate in FM if the bugs and match engine will allow it

 

[LFCFOREVER]

This is a very good tactic indeed. Very simular to the way I want my team to play in FM. To be in control as much as possible even though it limits the attacking possibilities.
However the inclusion of the different styles (ultra defensive, defensive, standard, control, attacking and ultra attacking really completes this tactic.
VERY NICE WORK!

I've modified the formation a bit using Gerrard as a support striker for Liverpool meaning the formation is now 4-4-1-1. This works quit well also as Gerrard is a lot more dangerous in that position. In the future I could be tempted to move the wingers further op making it a 4-2-3-1 formation. However I could also go back and using the plain 4-4-2 formation depending on strikers available.

 

[Zebedee]

Thanks LFCforever. I would say though that with the right five players, the Benitez mentality system doesn't have to restrict attacking opportunities. Ultimately, you're aiming for both the defence and the attack to be right. It's just a lot harder to get them both at the same time, and a defence always has to take priority in my view.

Not really experimented with 4-4-1-1 to be honest. It tends to leave your front two a little isolated and a bit too easy to mark - although Gerrard would probably make this formation very dangerous as you say LFC, as he's got the stats and PPMs to make the difference. Pushing the wingers up for a 4-2-3-1 would be my solution to that problem for teams without a Gerrard though. Ultradefensively, I'd probably turn the 4-2-3-1 into a 4-5-1 and for ultra-attacking perhaps even switch it to a 3-4-2-1.

 

[LFCFOREVER]

Love it. Just the way I want my team to play. I do tend to get som critisism for some games though. Like a bore draw on occasions, but I guess it's just a fact when you want to play controlling football. Probably the reason why so many dislike Benitez..

I've noticed that the attacking CM player in this system has difficulties getting good rating. In my case I play Xabi in that position (Mascher being the CM with a defensive mindset)
I guess it's mainly because of Xabis inabilities to pose an attacking threat going forward because he's basically also a defensive midtfielder (though more of a playmaker type)
Lucas and of course Gerrard seem much better in that position (given free role and lots of creative freedom)

 

[klaasvd79]

Zebedee,

Thnx, i got my team pretty good running now. I'm standing 3 or 4 place now and the team was aiming for a respectable position 1 till 12 place. Good some new player, and my passing also depends how the weather is etc, and that really works.
I try to get tactics from real life football i play, in to the game which also works, and that's actually very logic.
I like your formations, but i don't know for sure i'm that type of manager so i'm trying to tinker with it.

Much thanks again

 

[lavlav]

I can't open the tactics

problem with the .tac extension.
does anybody know what program i need in order to open the tactics ?

 

[Zebedee]

Love it. Just the way I want my team to play. I do tend to get som critisism for some games though. Like a bore draw on occasions, but I guess it's just a fact when you want to play controlling football. Probably the reason why so many dislike Benitez..

I've noticed that the attacking CM player in this system has difficulties getting good rating. In my case I play Xabi in that position (Mascher being the CM with a defensive mindset)
I guess it's mainly because of Xabis inabilities to pose an attacking threat going forward because he's basically also a defensive midtfielder (though more of a playmaker type)
Lucas and of course Gerrard seem much better in that position (given free role and lots of creative freedom)

This formation wouldn't be what I use in the premier league to be honest That said, I've not had any goalscoring problems with Bury or Newport County - finished top of those particular tables using these tactics. So I'm wondering whether you need to up the creative freedom a bit for the 'attacking' players or maybe tinker a bit more to make it more suitable for Liverpool itself or even switch variants? There's nothing wrong with a good bore draw though, if it's all you think your team can get against a better opponent.

Central midfielders (AMC, MC and DMC) have bugged ratings at the moment in 09. They are c.0.5 - 1 point below what they should be. Hopefully, 9.3 will fix the bug as it has been acknowledged by SI as a bug. Looking at the stats of the player as opposed to the rating may give better insight. Gerrard would be my choice as the MCa for Liverpool in a 4-4-2 but then again, I'd be using 4-2-3-1 in the premier league.

Thanks for the feedback though, it'll come in handy when I do my 4-2-3-1 when I get that far as I'll be using the same mentality system and is of great use for me when designing tactics for premier league teams.

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That sounds excellent Klaasvd. The mentality system should be quite easy to put in if you follow the TT&F guidelines. I would suggest giving it a while though before deciding - personally, I ran a few single practice seasons before settling firmly on the Benitez system.

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Hi Lavlav - the .tac files need to be imported into the game through your tactics screen and menus within the game. Hope that helps.

 

[Aidan11]

Hi guys,

this is the first time I've ever posted tactics for others to use despite having played football management games since Noah was a boy.

The reason I'm posting them is that it seems FM 2009 is increasingly confusing and annoying people. It is no longer a case (if it ever was) of one tactic even for one match seeing you through to glory and success.

One crucial collection of wisdom is the TTF download on tactics. It's absolutely invaluable in explaining how things work. My tactics are very basic models based upon that. Any similarities with other people's tactics are purely that - I have never downloaded anyone else's tactics in my life. I can however thoroughly recommend Tug's training schedules which I have used since their first appearance.

Some Important Notes

For the moment I'll just post them one at a time as I'm having to make them more 'generic' for other people to use - things like dribbling and long shots, even sometimes passing are very much player specific and need to be adapted for your own team, however the tactics I post will give your team a sound base from which to tinker. There are 6 variants of the 4-4-2 I use - ultra-defensive, defensive, standard, control, attacking and ultra-attacking. It's worth keeping in mind that you may need to switch within matches for success. The tactics are also currently designed for lower league teams - you will be able to lower passing a few notches for Premiership standard clubs should you wish. I tend to check my assistant's report every 10 minutes or so of a match as his ability to spot potential threats and problems is excellent but if the standard variant is getting you nowhere then switching to attacking for a 10 minute spell could get your nose in front, or if you're being swamped then switching to defensive and hitting on the break is a natural antidote. I'm not promising you a magic one shot solution for every occasion.

The philosophy of the tactic is easily explained. 5 players on the pitch are primarily defenders, 5 are primarily attackers. This means you'll be fairly tough to beat which means even an average team can grind out 1-0s. When on form, or with the right players and the right variant for that day, you will see 6-0s and more. Do not expect miracles straight away. Your team may well struggle for a few games initially before things 'click' for them. If you are introducing these tactics into the middle of a season, play the defensive formation as your initial formation to minimise this problem. Pre-season is probably the best time to do this.

The five defenders are your back four and a centre midfielder with a defensive mindset. The two fullbacks in the standard setting, while retaining a defensive mindset, are encouraged to get forward as much as possible. Fullbacks able to play as wingbacks love this formation and when on top of a team you'll see them overlap to create chances.

The five attackers are split between the two wingers and your 'finisher' and the support striker and the attacking midfielder. I use a target man, but allow him to change position with the other striker, and tailor how I feed him to specific match situations and his own specific skills. In more defensive variants the wingers tuck in and are allowed less freedom with more emphasis placed on the attacking midfielder and the support striker being able to create chances.

One formation the opposition will play against you which requires considerable use of Opposition Instructions is the 4-2-0-3-1. This formation is the AI's usual response in the second season. Otherwise OI should follow both the philosophies in the TTF download when listening to your assistant manager.

Any questions, comments and other general feedback is greatly appreciated, but for now here is the standard 4-4-2 with others to follow soon.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

How do you send images of tactics? any Help!