A standard - flexible approach with no TI's - Can it work?
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WJ
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It really doesn't. Like I said, and I just asked for confirmation elsewhere and got it, Defensive and Counter do this.
I think, but can't remember 100%, Overload too and possibly Attacking. Definitely not Standard or Control.
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You asked for confirmation instead of testing it for yourself? And those brilliant minds at si forum told you this? Well, that explains it. You probably never learned what counter stands for, which is why you push up and tackle harder in your own thread with counter tactic. Do you only repeat what those guys tell you? Instead of seing for yourself?
Please, take a weak team, and go up against a strong team with my tactic from this thread. Watch how they press you into your own half, and push up, and tell me what happens when you win the ball.
WJ
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I asked for confirmation on what I have seen and from what I remember of the old slider UI.
Stop being an idiot. I'm telling you how the ME functions under the hood and you're wiping your **** with it.
Why the **** can I not push up higher (than default) or tackle harder in a counter tactic? I did and it worked well.
First of all I'm not an idiot. Second, go talk to your mom with that tone and language, not me. Third, every time a player uses his off the ball movement, there is a chance a deeper player will spot him and initiate a counter. It will happen more often the deeper you play, and it will execute more properly the more structured the team shape is, or if you wish, the more disciplined the players are, and the more they stick to their position. And yes, that means inviting pressure which usually means the use of at least one DM to help your defence. What you did is play counter and lower your own counter opportunites, which is why I suggested you should play control instead.
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I'm going to say this one last time. The ME will not initiate a counter situation unless you have a Defensive or Counter mentality. It definitely will not happen with a Standard mentality. It won't.
Deep players playing it forward to a player in space =/= a counter situation. A counter situation is when you have a certain ratio of attackers vs defenders. Simple as that. During that counter situation, mentality and tempo is at maximum so you'll see even Support Duty players bombing forward. THAT is a counter situation. A Standard mentality doesn't do this. You can check. It doesn't. English is my 2nd language, but I cannot explain it any clearer than that.
As for your comment on my tactic - I will repeat myself again for the last time: I increased my Counter opportunities, ffs. I was too deep and struggled to win the ball because we invited too much pressure. We were a mid-table quality team, remember. I pushed higher up, BUT WE WERE STILL DEEP, just outside the penalty area. That meant we still had lots of space to counter in. We started winning the ball MORE (which means MORE counter opportunities :O) and this was helped by the fact that we were compressed just outside the box and tackling hard. We didn't have the pace compared to the top teams. We didn't have positioning compared to the movement off the ball by the top teams. What we did have, was numbers and good tackling attributes. It's simple and basic.
Next, Counter mentality is ideally set up for counter attacking football as odd as that sounds given the ambiguous name.
It features a fairly deep D-Line and fairly low closing down - perfect to draw in the opposition. It also has direct passing by the defenders and Defend duty midfielders to encourage the ball being played forward quickly and short passing by the attackers to hold possession, especially if there isn't a counter opportunity. Control is the opposite of this - making it a stupid choice if you want to counter attack - especially because the counter attack tick box is not ticked under the hood.I've now tried my best to be as clear as possible. If you want to discuss further, fine. If you're going to continue sticking your fingers in your ears, then I'm out.
I'm going to say this one last time. The ME will not initiate a counter situation unless you have a Defensive or Counter mentality. It definitely will not happen with a Standard mentality. It won't.
Deep players playing it forward to a player in space =/= a counter situation. A counter situation is when you have a certain ratio of attackers vs defenders. Simple as that. During that counter situation, mentality and tempo is at maximum so you'll see even Support Duty players bombing forward. THAT is a counter situation. A Standard mentality doesn't do this. You can check. It doesn't. English is my 2nd language, but I cannot explain it any clearer than that.
As for your comment on my tactic - I will repeat myself again for the last time: I increased my Counter opportunities, ffs. I was too deep and struggled to win the ball because we invited too much pressure. We were a mid-table quality team, remember. I pushed higher up, BUT WE WERE STILL DEEP, just outside the penalty area. That meant we still had lots of space to counter in. We started winning the ball MORE (which means MORE counter opportunities :O) and this was helped by the fact that we were compressed just outside the box and tackling hard. We didn't have the pace compared to the top teams. We didn't have positioning compared to the movement off the ball by the top teams. What we did have, was numbers and good tackling attributes. It's simple and basic.
Next, Counter mentality is ideally set up for counter attacking football as odd as that sounds given the ambiguous name.
I've now tried my best to be as clear as possible. If you want to discuss further, fine. If you're going to continue sticking your fingers in your ears, then I'm out.
Well, you seem to know what a counter is, but you refuse to call it a counter? When you go up against an attacking team, stronger then yours, what do you think is going to happen? They will push up and try to stretch you and score against you, that's what. In the process, their pushing up will leave them exposed at the back. When you win the ball in your own half, there will be fewer of their players at the back, and more of yours at the front, and counter will be initiated, no matter what mentality you have. The fact you are for example using a fluid control tactic and push up yourself, means you will resist more, and probably not get closed down in your own half, which is why there will be no counters. Fluid team shape for example means only your striker will be a target for counters, so If you get dominated, and use a fluid control tactic, even your counters will probably fail, which is why you should play counter if you are a weaker team and expect to get dominated. And please, stop quoting me from this moment on, I'm through explaining.
Edit: Never mind, shouldn't have gotten involved !
Edit2: Read this. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/405132-Counter-attacking-thread/page2
Edit2: Read this. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/405132-Counter-attacking-thread/page2
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I know how counter attacking works and what ti's, mentality and team shape to choose, a lot better then those guys over there.
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2015-tactics/328535-my-presets.html#post2742734
I posted it here
Fair play, rashidi is the guy who I pretty much take everything as gospel from, he's got a great approach to the game, his blogs are well worth a read.
Best of luck with it
WJ
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That's because those guys over there™ know what they're talking about because they know football and they know the game inside out. Ah, the benefits of speaking to the SI and their coders directly.
I know better than those guys........nuff said........ I posted my presets........nuff........said.............................i createded a wining tactic................ Nuff said...................
My name is Jeff.
My name is Jeff.
View attachment 254632
Anyways, this 442 would probably be a starting point for me, if I wanted to make a standard flexible tactic. I haven't watched any games or even played any with it. However as you know more than the guys over at Sports Interactive about Football Manager you will be able to tell me why I have chosen those specific roles, why they will or will not work, and why I might have chosen them as a starting point.
Oh and I made deliberate issues there for you
Anyways, this 442 would probably be a starting point for me, if I wanted to make a standard flexible tactic. I haven't watched any games or even played any with it. However as you know more than the guys over at Sports Interactive about Football Manager you will be able to tell me why I have chosen those specific roles, why they will or will not work, and why I might have chosen them as a starting point.
Oh and I made deliberate issues there for you
Well, I guess you'll go join WJ on my ignore list.
is this another account? why not just remove him from ignore list lol
You will probably see that specific statement a lot because you have a targetman. Your defenders will look to launch the ball up to him. Now that one point about counter attacking doesnt cover everything in this thread, dont get caught up on it.
This makes me really worry about you as a person, are you ok?
" On all mentality settings, players will observe the principle of penetration when appropriate. If the
opposition have left their defence exposed upon losing possession, players will look to penetrate
immediately and break forward at pace to exploit the opposition’s defensive imbalances before they
can recover and consolidate. On the Defensive and Counter mentalities, players will be slightly more
inclined to attempt to launch these rapid counterattacks, though against opponents that keep
numbers behind the ball, opportunities to break forward will be few and far between. In those cases,
a team will have to either settle for a more patient attacking build-up to break them down or increase
the risk of losing possession to quickly get the ball into advanced positions."
This is a quote to clear up the uncertainty regarding counter attacking.
opposition have left their defence exposed upon losing possession, players will look to penetrate
immediately and break forward at pace to exploit the opposition’s defensive imbalances before they
can recover and consolidate. On the Defensive and Counter mentalities, players will be slightly more
inclined to attempt to launch these rapid counterattacks, though against opponents that keep
numbers behind the ball, opportunities to break forward will be few and far between. In those cases,
a team will have to either settle for a more patient attacking build-up to break them down or increase
the risk of losing possession to quickly get the ball into advanced positions."
This is a quote to clear up the uncertainty regarding counter attacking.
WJ
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My feeling is that commentary line =/= counter attacking being triggered in the ME. You can still counter. You have 4 of 6 players on Attack duty, ffs, of course you will?! With most of your players bursting forward, it's not going to be out of the ordinary to see that commentary line.
You'd have to post up the PKM for this. Screenshots mean nothing.
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