Ajax/Barcelona Philosphy

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Gooders007

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Basically I saw someone else post this earlier but it's really interested me. What's the best way to create a Philosphy like Ajax and Barcelona. Basically playing Tika taka football all through the club. Instead of buying the best players around the world, promoting youth players who are already capable of playing this way. Are there certain staff you need? Is there a special way to do this? Any tips guys?
 
there are certain things they teach their youths, things like pressing...there is pressing as a hidden attribute in game, but I doubt the whole concept is implemented and worth to play if so...tactics part is easy, very fluid philosophy and standard strategy...you can go with play wider for easier scoring, as barca used to do, or with play narrower for more efficient pressing....the third thing is play more expressive plus roaming or stick to position plus more disciplined....both have benefeits and drawbacks
 
I've got a tactic which I've had success with before so I'll use that. Just had a vision of creating a whole Philosphy at a club. A lot like Swansea back in the day and now look at them.
 
The first move I do in every club I move to and want to stay to make a philosophy project (usually this kind of project like barcelona and ajax) I make my board to improve the facilities of the club and play with home grown players. and let my assistants bring players to the u19 team for them to grow in the club and use these players for the first team when they are ready.
I think this is the first part. actually after that I put my tactics and play them at the first team and u19.
there is a good thread about ajax's system here: Ajax - When Real Life Meets Football Manager - FM14
And I saw here your'e talking about pressing...this is the ONLY thing I think you just CAN'T get right in this game..and this is a huge part of it. and Iv'e tried anything!
 
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As said, you can go either narrow and stretch the pitch setting your players to move the ball wider, or you can go playing wider. As Barcelona style is both attacking and defensive, strategy would be Normal with a fluid / very fluid philosophy. The trick part is indeed about pressing and defending. Barcelona used a two part system: very high pressing to recover possession high on the pitch and then, if they weren't able to do it, almost all players would drop deep. This is impossible to set in FM because it simply lacks defending options. An alternative would be to set some specific man-marking, for instance the IFs man-marking the opposition wingers (not the FBs or the WBs), this way they would try to hassle defenders but they would also man-mark wingers, dropping deep as they should.
It's really about defending and Guardiola is known to just don't stick to one tactical formation: Barcelona often would start in a 433 but often in the matches they would change to a 343 with the DM dropping between the CDs, and when they weren't able to recover possession high they would change to a 4141, leaving Messi high on the pitch.
 
The best way to create the Guardiola 4-3-3/3-4-3 is with a half back and attacking wingers. I've got a tactic which allows me to dominate possession. I was thinking more of building a club around it, like Barcelona have done. For example the youth team playing the same and bring through technically gifted young footballers.
 
I saw someone posting a part from an interview of fabregas after his first year with guardiola and he talked about the system of guardiola and said that the players are not allowed to move without the ball, every player sticks to his role with very rigid philosophy the only one who's allowed to move is the player with the ball...I tried very rigid and I think it's working better in every aspect of the game and the real difference is that with very rigid it can work good with weak teams too
 
Mrmuto said:
I saw someone posting a part from an interview of fabregas after his first year with guardiola and he talked about the system of guardiola and said that the players are not allowed to move without the ball, every player sticks to his role with very rigid philosophy the only one who's allowed to move is the player with the ball...I tried very rigid and I think it's working better in every aspect of the game and the real difference is that with very rigid it can work good with weak teams too
Click to expand...

It was me that posted about Fabregas :) He didn't say anything about being very rigid, that was an interpretation of my own translating his words into FM terms. The problem is if the words of Fabregas can be interpreted in terms of FM, he did say that in Barcelona each player knows his role and stick to it and that players didn't have freedom of movement without the ball, only with the ball. This second part makes sense because sticking to positions allows to keep the triangles shape, I have doubts regarding the first part: either you set more fluid / more disciplined or more rigid / more expressive... the problem is that with more expressive you can't use Hold Positions. So, a possibility would be a more rigid style and more disciplined (if you think about it, no matter what Barcelona would always stick to their plan, their philosophy, to keep the team's shape).
 
miguelalves said:
It was me that posted about Fabregas :) He didn't say anything about being very rigid, that was an interpretation of my own translating his words into FM terms. The problem is if the words of Fabregas can be interpreted in terms of FM, he did say that in Barcelona each player knows his role and stick to it and that players didn't have freedom of movement without the ball, only with the ball. This second part makes sense because sticking to positions allows to keep the triangles shape, I have doubts regarding the first part: either you set more fluid / more disciplined or more rigid / more expressive... the problem is that with more expressive you can't use Hold Positions. So, a possibility would be a more rigid style and more disciplined (if you think about it, no matter what Barcelona would always stick to their plan, their philosophy, to keep the team's shape).
Click to expand...
So rigid philosophy is better...and it's really working good for me..when I tried more disciplined it's just too much and they lose possession and chances..I unticked it and it's working wonders
 
I find team instructions for pressing are counterproductive and individual instructions allow a much more varied approach a la
miguelalves said:
Barcelona used a two part system: very high pressing to recover possession high on the pitch and then, if they weren't able to do it, almost all players would drop deep.
Click to expand...

These have worked for me:

Attacking line: close down more.
midfield line: stand off.
wing/fullbacks: close down more
CB's: No pressing instructions, just mark tighter.

I find this means the opposition are only able to pass it around you and not through you, if you have good tacklers across DEF and MID positions then you usually win the ball back quickly and get on with playing your game, rather than chasing the opposition.
 
Mrmuto said:
So rigid philosophy is better...and it's really working good for me..when I tried more disciplined it's just too much and they lose possession and chances..I unticked it and it's working wonders
Click to expand...

That's the big question :) If we rely on a faithful translation to FM about Fabregas words regarding the roles, than a less fluid style is needed (not saying it's best, it's just an IF) in order for player to focus more on their roles and duties (balanced / rigid). Then, for sure, it's not just a matter of fluidity but also the setting of roles and duties. And this can be rather complex to achieve, for an example, since Messi was drifted to a central position he played distinctive roles, F9, Treq. DLF, CF, basically it's a mix of every, although a ppm's would help a lot. But taking a step back, the thing is: did Barcelona players contribute to more aspects of the game ? Yes, they did (more fluid style), the team when could not recover possession high on the pitch would drop deep leaving Messi ahead, turning the 433 to a 4141, very compact. Do they had lots of creative freedom allowing them to escape instructions ? No, they didn't, they were allowed to run wide with the ball (freedom of movement with the ball stretching the pitch in width), but they weren't allowed to move without the ball (no Runs from Deep). In FM13 we were able to remove RFDs and untick PI roam from position; in FM14 this can't be done, so more support duties are needed.

Taking all into account it seems it's a no man land: on one hand we need the players to contribute to more aspects of the game (more fluid); on the other hand, we need them to focus more on their roles (more rigid).
 
mking1992 said:
I find team instructions for pressing are counterproductive and individual instructions allow a much more varied approach a la

These have worked for me:

Attacking line: close down more.
midfield line: stand off.
wing/fullbacks: close down more
CB's: No pressing instructions, just mark tighter.

I find this means the opposition are only able to pass it around you and not through you, if you have good tacklers across DEF and MID positions then you usually win the ball back quickly and get on with playing your game, rather than chasing the opposition.
Click to expand...

Interesting. And do you use mark tighter ?
 
mking1992 said:
I find team instructions for pressing are counterproductive and individual instructions allow a much more varied approach a la

These have worked for me:

Attacking line: close down more.
midfield line: stand off.
wing/fullbacks: close down more
CB's: No pressing instructions, just mark tighter.

I find this means the opposition are only able to pass it around you and not through you, if you have good tacklers across DEF and MID positions then you usually win the ball back quickly and get on with playing your game, rather than chasing the opposition.
Click to expand...
And what about team instructions? you untick them all?
 
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