Ajax/Barcelona Philosphy

Gooders007 said:
People seem to have a problem with long shots but I've got all my team on 'shoot less often' and I've hardly had a long shot out of desperation.
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Any problem with long shots are tactical problems, not bugs...although SI have recognized that there a few problems when players decisions at goal.
 
fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2014-tactics/156997-tactic-has-been-amazing-screenshots-included

The tactic in this thread seems to get good possession, CCC etc...
 
I wrote it at the begining of the thread, but I will write it again...very fluid philosophy means all of your players will try to contribute both to offense and defense. Every player is expected to be able to play at every position. It is the core of total football, and its derivatives like tiki taka...of course, rigid style will suit teams better because they don't have the players required, but it shouldn't be called total football or tiki taka if anything else but very fluid is used. It's simply not it. You can ask the players to stick to position instead of roam and be more disciplined to gain real teamplay, or if you have really talented individuals that can do magic, you can go with roaming and playing more expressive. Most teams do not have such players and their game would fall apart if every player roamed. It would be chaos. In FM 13, where you had sliders, you could see that, depending on the role, almost all players are on the same mentality, meaning they play compact, without making space between the lines which allowed for better defending, and also meaning their attacking players help with defence, and their defenders help attack. With tiki taka, and standard strategy, thier menatality is at the exact middle, meaning every player needs to use his decisions to make a choice of what to do on the pitch, shoot, cross, pass it forward, or backward, close down or not and so on. For Arrigo Sachi, the ideal distance between his CD and his striker was never greater then 25m, and you cannot get this with anything else but very fluid.
 
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Igneos79 said:
I wrote it at the begining of the thread, but I will write it again...very fluid philosophy means all of your players will try to contribute both to offense and defense. Every player is expected to be able to play at every position. It is the core of total football, and its derivatives like tiki taka...of course, rigid style will suit teams better because they don't have the players required, but it shouldn't be called total football or tiki taka if anything else but very fluid is used. It's simply not it. You can ask the players to stick to position instead of roam and be more disciplined to gain real teamplay, or if you have really talented individuals that can do magic, you can go with roaming and playing more expressive. Most teams do not have such players and their game would fall apart if every player roamed. It would be chaos. In FM 13, where you had sliders, you could see that, depending on the role, almost all players are on the same mentality, meaning they play compact, without making space between the lines which allowed for better defending, and also meaning their attacking players help with defence, and their defenders help attack. With tiki taka, and standard strategy, thier menatality is at the exact middle, meaning every player needs to use his decisions to make a choice of what to do on the pitch, shoot, cross, pass it forward, or backward, close down or not and so on. For Arrigo Sachi, the ideal distance between his CD and his striker was never greater then 25m, and you cannot get this with anything else but very fluid.
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Ok it's very very logical and I always thought it's right...but what about what miguelalves posted about fabregas ? it absoloutly changed my mind...
 
Igneos79 said:
I wrote it at the begining of the thread, but I will write it again...very fluid philosophy means all of your players will try to contribute both to offense and defense. Every player is expected to be able to play at every position. It is the core of total football, and its derivatives like tiki taka...of course, rigid style will suit teams better because they don't have the players required, but it shouldn't be called total football or tiki taka if anything else but very fluid is used. It's simply not it. You can ask the players to stick to position instead of roam and be more disciplined to gain real teamplay, or if you have really talented individuals that can do magic, you can go with roaming and playing more expressive. Most teams do not have such players and their game would fall apart if every player roamed. It would be chaos. In FM 13, where you had sliders, you could see that, depending on the role, almost all players are on the same mentality, meaning they play compact, without making space between the lines which allowed for better defending, and also meaning their attacking players help with defence, and their defenders help attack. With tiki taka, and standard strategy, thier menatality is at the exact middle, meaning every player needs to use his decisions to make a choice of what to do on the pitch, shoot, cross, pass it forward, or backward, close down or not and so on. For Arrigo Sachi, the ideal distance between his CD and his striker was never greater then 25m, and you cannot get this with anything else but very fluid.
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Thanks, those are very helpful tips :) I think we went a little off topic regarding the title of this thread but I thought it was important to share Fabregas words and make some brainstorming between all of us to collect more ideas.
 
Mrmuto said:
Ok it's very very logical and I always thought it's right...but what about what miguelalves posted about fabregas ? it absoloutly changed my mind...
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That's why I said it was important to find out how much of his words can be applied to FM terms. In FM we know what it means when every player sticks to his role, but Fabregas was talking in football terms.
 
miguelalves said:
That's why I said it was important to find out how much of his words can be applied to FM terms. In FM we know what it means when every player sticks to his role, but Fabregas was talking in football terms.
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What's the difference? I'm really asking..
 
Mrmuto said:
what's the difference in this aspects of the game..possession you know...and yes the ME and the IRL
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The thing is, imo, that although there many aspects identical or that some are possible to replicate in FM, there are a few (and very important ones) that are simply impossible to because of a lack of defensive option and because they are basic things still missing in FM (in 20 years of this game, it amazes me how is it possible yellow cards for wasting time are missing). Considering the title of the thread, one aspect that is vital to introduce is the possibility to use the 6 second rule according to which players are instructed to press very high to recover possession and, if they fail to do so, automatically the team drops deeper. The only possible option would be to set the IFs to specifically man-mark the opponent attacking wingers, but at the same time this have other implications that won't allow possession because the opponent FBs will be always free to move the ball around. Now, another way would be to set up the IFs with a support duty, in a very fluid style they will help more when the team defends, but a support duty also affects the players when the team attacks. I think this is a nice example how the blanket is smaller than the bed :) Since the tiki-taka is a game model both defensive and attacking, I think the better way is either you focus more on the defensive aspect or on the attacking aspect. To have both is something that the game doesn't allow and this got worse with this 2014 version, because previously tactics were more customized, it was possible to have more tactical micro-management, this year you have to stick to the logic of instructions, roles and duties.
 
best tactic ajax/barcelona philosophy download link please??
 
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