Barcelona - Real Madrid 16.04 La Liga

[Mike.]

I actually quite enjoyed the game, I like watching Barca's style of play, even the 'boring' bits. Thought Pepe was superb, he limited the Barca midfield a lot, Ozil was also superb when he came on. I agree that Di Maria was poor last night, but I think he is a good player. He is over-rated slightly though.

As for the arrogance/attitude, I like Barca a lot (ever since Ronaldo signed for them) but their attitude stank last night. I can't stand when players are up in the ref's face, waving invisible cards. That's the reason why I can't stand Ronaldo, Marcelo, Drogba, etc.

I fancy Madrid for the Copa del Rey and the CL (to lose to Schalke ), but definitely Barca for the league.

i fancy Madrid for that too, Pepe and Khedira were brilliant when down to 10 men, i can see that being used again in the next 3 games as a 4-2-3-1

 

[Joel`]

He's not in bad form in the sense that Torres is - his movement is fine etc. but he can't find the net and his finishing is completely off. He had a great chance yesterday when Messi played him in and he scuffed his shot straight at Casillas (who btw, also had a good game) when you'd expect a player like him - a goalscorer - to hit the back of the net every time.

@INickStuff - it's 9 league games, I think... Does Villa's drought carry over to CL/CdR etc.?

Villa has scored for Spain in the middle of his club drought though, IIRC.

 

[pistolped7]

i fancy Madrid for that too, Pepe and Khedira were brilliant when down to 10 men, i can see that being used again in the next 3 games as a 4-2-3-1

Khedira had a stormer, and Pepe was solid too. The commentators were constantly moaning about Mourinho's negativity with using Pepe and Khedira ike this, but it certainly worked. Barca looked very limited when they got into Madrid's half.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

Villa has scored for Spain in the middle of his club drought though, IIRC.

I think you're right, vs Lithuania or the Czechs.

 

[Mike.]

Khedira had a stormer, and Pepe was solid too. The commentators were constantly moaning about Mourinho's negativity with using Pepe and Khedira ike this, but it certainly worked. Barca looked very limited when they got into Madrid's half.

the commentators were moaning because their beloved messi couldnt run riot.

 

[pistolped7]

the commentators were moaning because their beloved messi couldnt run riot.

Messi was pretty much non-existent last night, Madrid did very well defensively.

 

[Joss]

i fancy Madrid for that too, Pepe and Khedira were brilliant when down to 10 men, i can see that being used again in the next 3 games as a 4-2-3-1

Which prompts the question: What's he going to do in the CL and CdR? Carvalho out of the Semi-Final 1st leg in the CL and Albiol now out for the CdR final. Ramos to CB, Arbeloa to RB?

Khedira and Pepe gave Barca's midfield no time on the ball whatsoever - they had almost 80% possession but didn't do anything with it and struggled to get the ball forward.

Khedira had a stormer, and Pepe was solid too. The commentators were constantly moaning about Mourinho's negativity with using Pepe and Khedira ike this, but it certainly worked. Barca looked very limited when they got into Madrid's half.

I said this before, but I really think despite playing Pepe and leaving out Ozil, RM actually had better chances than Barca - Ronaldo was sent through (By Pepe?) and would've scored if not for a last-ditch Adriano challenge at 0-0. Their goal came from a moment of stupidity from Albiol rather than their excellent play.

And I agree - very effective.

the commentators were moaning because their beloved messi couldnt run riot.

This. Think the commentator almost spunked himself when Messi went played that one-two and saw his shot saved while they ignored him kicking the ball as hard as he could into the front row at the end.

 

[Mike.]

Messi was pretty much non-existent last night, Madrid did very well defensively.

and the only reason real werent more of a threat was becuase they were down to 10 men, next next game will see kaka or Ozil at amc, and that will test whoever plays DMC becuase it will make their distribution job much harder

 

[Joss]

Messi was pretty much non-existent last night, Madrid did very well defensively.

Seen some sites claim Messi was MOM for some reason - e.g. Home - WhoScored.com

---------- Post added at 02:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

and the only reason real werent more of a threat was becuase they were down to 10 men, next next game will see kaka or Ozil at amc, and that will test whoever plays DMC becuase it will make their distribution job much harder

See Busquets struggling slightly with the movement and work-rate of Ozil if he plays. He's the perfect player - quick, intelligent and works hard off the ball.

 

[Mike.]

Ramos will go CB, and Arbeloa RB, he had a good game when he arrived

 

[curtis290]

Just watched the game. Again Barca took their foot off the pedal and threw away a lead. When you're winning and a man up and you're Barcelona you should be able to close out the game. Instead Madrid played their best football towards the end and got a deserved point. I could see something similar happening in the CL final.

Mourinho's lineup was very good, as soon as I saw it I thought it would worked. The 4-3-3 matched Barca's shape and Pepe was an absolute beast. Real Madrid defended very well and put 10 men in front of the ball. While I didn't really like the RM tactics (they made the game boring, and they were very Mourinhoesque and unlike what Real Madrid aspires to be) they were very effective. They created more chances and were more dangerous in the final third than Barca was.

Not sure about the Alves penalty...I'm undecided as to whether or not it was a penalty (I think Marcelo dove, but it still may have been a penalty regardless), but I definitely thought a red card was very harsh for what wasn't a clear penalty.

There was some diving and both sides' behavior towards the ref was annoying but it's El Superclasico, the tensions are running so high that it's to be expected. And how often do we see players charge the ref on missed calls (Villa clearly should have had a penalty), that happens all of the time, it's not unique to Barca. Also, Barca is pretty arrogant but I don't think they're particularly arrogant for how much success they've had recently. Big clubs are usually arrogant, it's not like ManU, Liverpool, Bayern, the big Italian clubs, etc. are really humble. Also, hearing that criticism from Arsenal fans seems a bit hypocritical...how often do they brag about their good finances and good style of play and then criticise their opponents when they lose to teams who play "rugby football"?

This game I think gave a big advantage to R. Madrid since it will give them a lot of confidence. They have figured out the right formula for beating R. Madrid and a I think R. Madrid will win the Champions League but Barca will get revenge on them in the Copa del Rey. I'm not sure what would happen in the CL final though...I still think ManU will win it since they are tougher than R. Madrid, and RM usually chokes. If Barca beats RM in the semi-finals, they will certainly lose to ManU in the final, due in no small part to overconfidence and thinking they'd won the whole thing after they beat RM. R. Madrid in that case would get their revenge in the Copa del Rey.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

i fancy Madrid for that too, Pepe and Khedira were brilliant when down to 10 men, i can see that being used again in the next 3 games as a 4-2-3-1

Wouldn't work, Xabi Alonso absolutely has to be in that lineup. They are so much worse without him it's not even funny. They can't maintain possession or move the ball from the back to the front. Without XA there are just 4 attacking players sitting up top (none of them really track back) with no link between them and the 6 defenders. Heck, I don't even think they should go for a 4-2-3-1 against Barca. That's what they did the first time and they were crushed. I think this 4-3-3 is their perfect lineup with which to beat Barca. If Carvalho is missing though in the first leg (I think I read that somewhere) than they should move Pepe back to CB and make Lass as the DM. But a 4-3-3 with a destroyer in the midfield (Pepe or Diarra) and Alonso and Khedira as the CM's is a great idea. If they are losing and want to go more offensive than they can bring on Ozil (who usually isn't good for a full 90 anyway and is better off the bench) and switch to a 4-2-3-1 (probably would take off Khedira). But as their first match this season proved, you can't just go out attacking against Barca and expect to win.

 

[Mike.]

Just watched the game. Again Barca took their foot off the pedal and threw away a lead. When you're winning and a man up and you're Barcelona you should be able to close out the game. Instead Madrid played their best football towards the end and got a deserved point. I could see something similar happening in the CL final.

Mourinho's lineup was very good, as soon as I saw it I thought it would worked. The 4-3-3 matched Barca's shape and Pepe was an absolute beast. Real Madrid defended very well and put 10 men in front of the ball. While I didn't really like the RM tactics (they made the game boring, and they were very Mourinhoesque and unlike what Real Madrid aspires to be) they were very effective. They created more chances and were more dangerous in the final third than Barca was.

Not sure about the Alves penalty...I'm undecided as to whether or not it was a penalty (I think Marcelo dove, but it still may have been a penalty regardless), but I definitely thought a red card was very harsh for what wasn't a clear penalty.

There was some diving and both sides' behavior towards the ref was annoying but it's El Superclasico, the tensions are running so high that it's to be expected. And how often do we see players charge the ref on missed calls (Villa clearly should have had a penalty), that happens all of the time, it's not unique to Barca. Also, Barca is pretty arrogant but I don't think they're particularly arrogant for how much success they've had recently. Big clubs are usually arrogant, it's not like ManU, Liverpool, Bayern, the big Italian clubs, etc. are really humble. Also, hearing that criticism from Arsenal fans seems a bit hypocritical...how often do they brag about their good finances and good style of play and then criticise their opponents when they lose to teams who play "rugby football"?

This game I think gave a big advantage to R. Madrid since it will give them a lot of confidence. They have figured out the right formula for beating R. Madrid and a I think R. Madrid will win the Champions League but Barca will get revenge on them in the Copa del Rey. I'm not sure what would happen in the CL final though...I still think ManU will win it since they are tougher than R. Madrid, and RM usually chokes. If Barca beats RM in the semi-finals, they will certainly lose to ManU in the final, due in no small part to overconfidence and thinking they'd won the whole thing after they beat RM. R. Madrid in that case would get their revenge in the Copa del Rey.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------



Wouldn't work, Xabi Alonso absolutely has to be in that lineup. They are so much worse without him it's not even funny. They can't maintain possession or move the ball from the back to the front. Without XA there are just 4 attacking players sitting up top (none of them really track back) with no link between them and the 6 defenders. Heck, I don't even think they should go for a 4-2-3-1 against Barca. That's what they did the first time and they were crushed. I think this 4-3-3 is their perfect lineup with which to beat Barca. If Carvalho is missing though in the first leg (I think I read that somewhere) than they should move Pepe back to CB and make Lass as the DM. But a 4-3-3 with a destroyer in the midfield (Pepe or Diarra) and Alonso and Khedira as the CM's is a great idea. If they are losing and want to go more offensive than they can bring on Ozil (who usually isn't good for a full 90 anyway and is better off the bench) and switch to a 4-2-3-1 (probably would take off Khedira).

it would work, it actually did in the game. alonso was taken off becuase he wasnt mobile enough. They werent crushed becuase they were playing 4-2-3-1. they were crushed becuase of their ridiculous high line and lack of pressing combined. Messi was utterly denied space when they moved to this and they actually created chances despite being down to 10 men. They are not going to maintain possession, its about denying space and hitting directly on the counter, and this is where it will work, think barca- inter leg last time round

 

[curtis290]

it would work, it actually did in the game. alonso was taken off becuase he wasnt mobile enough. They werent crushed becuase they were playing 4-2-3-1. they were crushed becuase of their ridiculous high line and lack of pressing combined. Messi was utterly denied space when they moved to this and they actually created chances despite being down to 10 men. They are not going to maintain possession, its about denying space and hitting directly on the counter, and this is where it will work, think barca- inter leg last time round

I agree more or less but think the 4-2-3-1 is too offensive for playing against Barca, and the 4-3-3 is perfect because they can clog the Barca midfield and give less space to their forwards. They can play with 7 men back instead of 6. And of course with the 4-3-3 you keep Alonso in. Also what if you're using the 4-2-3-1 and you fall behind, how do you go more offensive? With the 4-3-3 they can defend and counter and if they are losing they can switch to a 4-2-3-1 by bring on Ozil or maybe Kaka.

 

[Mike.]

I agree more or less but think the 4-2-3-1 is too offensive for playing against Barca, and the 4-3-3 is perfect because they can clog the Barca midfield and give less space to their forwards. They can play with 7 men back instead of 6. And of course with the 4-3-3 you keep Alonso in. Also what if you're using the 4-2-3-1 and you fall behind, how do you go more offensive? With the 4-3-3 they can defend and counter and if they are losing they can switch to a 4-2-3-1 by bring on Ozil or maybe Kaka.

it wont be too offensive becuase what khedira and pepe did was defend the space and not the man, so the held their areas and khedira then broke forwards hence why messi did such little damage later on. Its two DMCs pushing forward only when needed, not two MC's dropping back

they only reason they were not more of a threat was because of a lack of an AMC with 10 men. The 4-2-3-1 also allows the fullbacks better attacking freedom, hence why marcelo was still causing a threat with 10 men. jose is known for using the end of his games to prepare for the next one so we could well see this formation

 

[curtis290]

it wont be too offensive becuase what khedira and pepe did was defend the space and not the man, so the held their areas and khedira then broke forwards hence why messi did such little damage later on. Its two DMCs pushing forward only when needed, not two MC's dropping back

they only reason they were not more of a threat was because of a lack of an AMC with 10 men. The 4-2-3-1 also allows the fullbacks better attacking freedom, hence why marcelo was still causing a threat with 10 men. jose is known for using the end of his games to prepare for the next one so we could well see this formation

Against the lower teams this wouldn't work because R. Madrid needs Alonso to link the defense and the attack (without him there's not enough possession and good passing), but against Barca they are going to be going with the defend and counter strategy, so maybe that isn't as important...could work well, we'll see. Maybe if they take the lead they could switch to a 4-3-3 and take of Ozil since he gets tired easily. I still think the 4-3-3 would be better. We'll probably see some of both.

 

[Mike.]

Against the lower teams this wouldn't work because R. Madrid needs Alonso to link the defense and the attack (without him there's not enough possession and good passing), but against Barca they are going to be going with the defend and counter strategy, so maybe that isn't as important...could work well, we'll see. Maybe if they take the lead they could switch to a 4-3-3 and take of Ozil since he gets tired easily. I still think the 4-3-3 would be better. We'll probably see some of both.

yeah i think this game will be a purely destructive one from jose, win ugly and at all costs, partly why i think he would forego Alonso. Any other time dropping him would be unthinkable

 

[curtis290]

yeah i think this game will be a purely destructive one from jose, win ugly and at all costs, partly why i think he would forego Alonso. Any other time dropping him would be unthinkable

Yeah I definitely agree, that's the best way to beat Barca and that's how Jose likes to play so that's what we'll see. It's so uncharacteristic of R. Madrid though, trying to win with good defense and tactics rather than offensive firepower and flair...few will complain if they win, but if they lose? People will be furious with Mourinho for playing ugly and losing.

 

[Mike.]

Yeah I definitely agree, that's the best way to beat Barca and that's how Jose likes to play so that's what we'll see. It's so uncharacteristic of R. Madrid though, trying to win with good defense and tactics rather than offensive firepower and flair...few will complain if they win, but if they lose? People will be furious with Mourinho for playing ugly and losing.

he tried to match them last time and got blown away, he wont try it again. even the fans celebrated the draw like it was a win, they just dont want to get hammered again. dont know why some Madrid fans turn their nose up at it, the last time they won the league it was based on defense, tactics and teamplay, everything else had failed them

 

[curtis290]

he tried to match them last time and got blown away, he wont try it again. even the fans celebrated the draw like it was a win, they just dont want to get hammered again. dont know why some Madrid fans turn their nose up at it, the last time they won the league it was based on defense, tactics and teamplay, everything else had failed them

The problem is though that that's not how this was supposed to be done. Perez was elected so they'd bring in a new set of galacticos. They went out and spent an obscene amount of money so that they could create the best sporting spectacle on earth. Going out and playing Mourinho ball and with 20% possession just isn't how this was supposed to happen, even if they're the better team (they were that game). That style of play epitomizes everything Valdano despises. Real Madrid is absolutely loaded with talent on all ends of the pitch (just as much, if not more so, than Barca), I think they can compete with Barca if they go out and play offensively. When Pellegrini was manager the games were close and this team is much more talented and has had more time to gel. Maybe Mourinho isn't the right coach to do it though.

 

[Mike.]

The problem is though that that's not how this was supposed to be done. Perez was elected so they'd bring in a new set of galacticos. They went out and spent an obscene amount of money so that they could create the best sporting spectacle on earth. Going out and playing Mourinho ball and with 20% possession just isn't how this was supposed to happen, even if they're the better team (they were that game). That style of play epitomizes everything Valdano despises. Real Madrid is absolutely loaded with talent on all ends of the pitch (just as much, if not more so, than Barca), I think they can compete with Barca if they go out and play offensively. When Pellegrini was manager the games were close and this team is much more talented and has had more time to gel. Maybe Mourinho isn't the right coach to do it though.

i said this before he went there, if they wanted an offensive expansive coach, they chose the wrong man. Interesting note, Madrid can now not reach the same points tally as pellegrini did last season, funny how he was lambasted but everyone seems to ignore that point.

Jose is a win at all costs manager,even if it means grinding backs to the wall stuff. But then im not fussed, the way Madrid treat their coaches (their treatment of del bosque still rankles me) they get what they deserve imo