Begining of spanish domination ???

[Mike.]

Ok fair enough, I did say i don't agree with it as it is, i just don't think it would be fair to make it equal completely

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

Now mike I have not attacked you and you suggesting that i'm out right wrong is well highly offensive... I will not argue further,as it seems it impossiable for you to see that our opinions are different, and maybe your term of wing oriented is different to mine... you jump on your high horse as soon as I make a comment

Not an attack, but to say english football isn't wing orientated is wrong, its simply not the case. We have a near obsession with wingers, for better or for worse, this goes right back through english history

 

[Joel`]

Ok Mike I shall not get into another shouting match and of course teams play differently bit one generilises in order not to make my post to long...

I stick to my opinion and you will no doubt stick to yours... i was merely saying that on the hole the wing play is of a completely different nature... non superior than the other but ON AVERAGE English teams are not as wing orientated as Spainish or Portuguess

United, Spurs and possibly Chelsea are all very reliant on their wing play. And that's just the top few teams. Most of the lower down teams also emphasise wing play too. So your statement that La Liga teams would be able to exploit English teams not used to quick wing play is just false.

 

[Mike.]

United, Spurs and possibly Chelsea are all very reliant on their wing play. And that's just the top few teams. Most of the lower down teams also emphasise wing play too. So your statement that La Liga teams would be able to exploit English teams not used to quick wing play is just false.

this is my point, for better or for worse, England has long been obsessed with wingplay, largely to the detriment of the creative central mid

 

[luke the blanco]

But what I am saying is the type of wing play is very very different... and most epl on average slow down their approach and measure their crosses wheras in Liga that is very rare, wheras they cut in attack with quick interchanges on the wing

 

[Mike.]

But what I am saying is the type of wing play is very very different... and most epl on average slow down their approach and measure their crosses wheras in Liga that is very rare, wheras they cut in attack with quick interchanges on the wing

you didnt make the distinction between the classic and inverted winger, the latter of which is more prevalent in spain. But in the modern game, both times are now common in both leagues games, neither sets of sides would be particularly unready for whatever type of winger

 

[Joel`]

this is my point, for better or for worse, England has long been obsessed with wingplay, largely to the detriment of the creative central mid

I prefer to watch amazing wing play anyway, so I don't mind too much. Do you think our obsession was part of the detriment of Scholes' England career? Don't think we ever really maximised his ability for the national team.

 

[Mike.]

I prefer to watch amazing wing play anyway, so I don't mind too much. Do you think our obsession was part of the detriment of Scholes' England career? Don't think we ever really maximised his ability for the national team.

partly so, and partly because of our distrust of the continental game. Scholes combined the best of both worlds, yet we failed to use it the way United did

 

[luke the blanco]

you didnt make the distinction between the classic and inverted winger, the latter of which is more prevalent in spain. But in the modern game, both times are now common in both leagues games, neither sets of sides would be particularly unready for whatever type of winger

Well In my opinion I think the majority of lower english sides would battle with the mobility of the strikers in La Liga... just an opinion it would be very interesting thing to see Villareal play Stoke would be interesting to say the least

 

[Mike.]

Well In my opinion I think the majority of lower english sides would battle with the mobility of the strikers in La Liga... just an opinion it would be very interesting thing to see Villareal play Stoke would be interesting to say the least

why? we have plenty of very quick and agile forwards in the prem too that they battle with all the time. why villareal vs stoke, why not villareal vs spurs, or sunderland?; Stoke is not the epitomy of Prem football, very few sides play anything like them

 

[luke the blanco]

why? we have plenty of very quick and agile forwards in the prem too that they battle with all the time. why villareal vs stoke, why not villareal vs spurs, or sunderland?; Stoke is not the epitomy of Prem football, very few sides play anything like them

I simple chose two teams... would also be interesting to see Zaragoza play Everton...


And yes you too have quick strickers but mostly play completely differently in England...on average

 

[Mike.]

I simple chose two teams... would also be interesting to see Zaragoza play Everton...


And yes you too have quick strickers but mostly play completely differently in England...on average

how so? you cant say they play differently and not explain why.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

what would intresting to see if how teams coped with possession football though

 

[curtis290]

If the 20 Prem teams played the 20 La Liga teams it would be very interesting, and I think it would be about even (of course whoever was officiating would make a big difference, the stricter La Liga refs would give the La Liga teams an advantage, and the English refs more accustomed to a physical game would give the English teams an advantage). The La Liga teams would struggle with the pace, physicality, and directness of the English teams. The English teams would struggle with the skill and passing of the Spanish teams. It would be very even. As it would be if all of the teams from either of these leagues played all of the teams from Serie A or the Bundesliga.

---------- Post added at 07:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 AM ----------

Ka5a8ian brought up a very good point I was going to mention: since its inception, the Prem has had fewer winners than La Liga, and since the mid to late 90's it's always a one or two horse race. It used to be a one-horse race with ManU always winning, then it became a two-horse race with ManU and Arsenal, then Arsenal started its selling policy and Chelsea came into the fold. Since then it's been a two-horse race between ManU and Chelsea, and this season after Chelsea's surprise start (I along with many others thought Chelsea was too old to compete for a title this year) it became a one-horse race as ManU was the only team with a real chance to win it. Traditionally over the past decade, the Prem has 3-4 very good teams while the rest suck (this was the case in the mid 00's until last season, when the same Big 4 would finish in the top 4 every year, they were good teams that would all do well in the Champions League, which people would cite as proof of the Prem's superiority, while the rest of the league was terrible). La Liga usually had two very good teams and 3-5 very solid teams, none of whom were quite as good as Arsenal or Liverpool but the rest of the league was stronger from top to bottom. But people would say "well, the Prem has the best teams so it's the best league."

Now the tables have turned and it's the other way around, with La Liga having the best teams but the Prem having more depth, but people say the lower-tier Spanish teams are bad (which is untrue). The biggest difference between La Liga and the Prem is that La Liga's top two are much better than the Prem's top two (although if Barca makes it to the final, ManU should beat them since their style of play is the perfect antidote to Barca's) and Barca/R. Madrid consistently beat up on weaker teams, while ManU has been very inconsistent this season (as Chelsea and Arsenal have been, which is why they couldn't compete for the title). I'm tired of hearing people make the SPL comparison because it's so untrue (especially considering that one could make the same comparison for the Prem, since usually ManU and possibly Chelsea are the only teams with a shot in **** at winning the title). The EPL fanboys conveniently forget that in 08-09, La Liga had SIX Champions League caliber teams, and the worst of the 6 (finished in 6th place in La Liga that season), Villarreal, played ManU twice and drew twice as the sides were completely equal and cancelled each other out.

The past two seasons, both R. Madrid and Barca have been incredible and can't be caught by the other good Spanish teams, who have struggled recently, especially due to financial problems for the reasons mentioned above (TV deals). But the struggles of Atletico Madrid, Sevilla, and Villarreal the past two seasons (although Villarreal has been very good this season) should only testify to the depth of the Spanish league. Look at Atletico Madrid: they are absolutely stacked with talent. They have two of the best top 10 strikers in the world, two very solid attacking midfielders (Reyes and Simao, who left but has been replaced by Juanfran), and two very solid center-mids (Paulo Asuncao and Tiago, both of whom I think are very good). They have a great young keeper and a very solid defense with Godin, Ujfalusi, and Dominguez in the middle and Filipe on the right. They are more talented than Tottenham IMO, and in 08-09 were a great team, better than this year's ManCity. Yet they are doing very poorly in La Liga. Why? Because La Liga is very deep, much moreso than the Prem fanboys will admit, and Atletico Madrid constantly loses to these strong, lower half teams.

IMO there is very little difference in the overall quality (as in the quality of every team in the league) between Serie A, La Liga, the Prem, and the Bundesliga. La Liga's top two teams are the best in the world, not much in terms of the 3-5th best teams, and a very strong league other than that. The Prem has 5 very solid teams. Serie A and the Bundesliga don't have any very good teams this year (Inter has tons of talent but has had lots of injuries and very poor coaching), but the overall quality of the league is very strong. In Serie A you have outsiders like Lazio and Napoli who occasionally have great seasons other than the big 4, who have struggled recently (due in no small part to the depth of Serie A). The Bundesliga doesn't have one world class team other than maybe Bayern Munich (who has struggled this season in the league due to the fact that unlike the other three leagues, there are no easy matches) but has the most parity. That's why every year there is a smaller team that challenges for the title: Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, and this year, Dortmund. I'd say that the bottom half of the Bundesliga right now (which includes Schalke) is better than the bottom half of any league in the world.

And of course Ligue 1 has improved in recent years too...look at how talented Lyon has been the past couple of seasons; they can't win a title there. This year's title race there is completely wide-open between about 5 teams, and it's the only league out of the 'Big 5' where we don't know the winner already (I think we can safely bet AC Milan will take Serie A).

So yeah, I don't think there's anything separating the Big 4, and Ligue 1 isn't that far behind. The Argentine and Brazilian leagues, although they don't have any particularly good teams (they can't hold onto any of their players with no Champions League and extremely low wages, particularly in Argentina) the leagues are very strong from top to bottom. I'd say that the bottom half of those two leagues are just about as strong as the bottom half of any of the Big 5.

 

[jamescfc]

based on what? Since their last victory back in 2003, Real Madrid have faced English opposition on 7 occasions in that time period and have a solitary win (2 now after this game). They also have 4 defeats from those 6 matches.

what ? In that time scale the team has changed dramatically. Infact only ramos marcelo pepe and casillas remain. The entire front line and midfield is different.

It is stupit to cmpare the record of completley differet madrid teams the current squad

 

[Mike.]

what ? In that time scale the team has changed dramatically. Infact only ramos marcelo pepe and casillas remain. The entire front line and midfield is different.

It is stupit to cmpare the record of completley differet madrid teams the current squad

what and english sides havent changed? the make up of the sides is irrelevant, were are talking about the balance between the leagues. And lets not forget that side were the "galacticos"

 

[jamescfc]

what and english sides havent changed? the make up of the sides is irrelevant, were are talking about the balance between the leagues. And lets not forget that side were the "galacticos"

No i am not saying that english sides have not changed. They have which means making comparisons to history is usless. The record of previous real madrid sides has no relevance to the current squad

 

[Mike.]

No i am not saying that english sides have not changed. They have which means making comparisons to history is usless. The record of previous real madrid sides has no relevance to the current squad

i wasnt making any squad comparison im talking about the balance of the leagues so actually history is very relevant here, as shown by curtis above

 

[tiraths]

Some of my mates were having a discussion earlier and the topic was: If Barcelona were in the premiership, would they win it?

There are quite a few points to consider:
1) Barcelona like to rest 1 of their 'front 3' against lower division teams to make sure they stay fresh for the big games, although would they have that luxury with the English game being more physical?

2) IMO Dani Alves is their most important player after Messi, as he makes himself free on the right wing for the majority of games and Xavi looks for him if Messi is tightly marked. I haven't seen enough games this season to be certain, but I think english teams have more 'defensive wingers' in comparison to spanish teams, who could dampen Dani Alves' impact.

3) Apart from the 2 CB's, would Barcelona's team be able to cope against teams like Stoke & Blackburn? (Even though Barca will have the majority of possession, it only takes 1 or 2 set-pieces to create a chance for those teams)

 

[Mike.]

Some of my mates were having a discussion earlier and the topic was: If Barcelona were in the premiership, would they win it?

There are quite a few points to consider:
1) Barcelona like to rest 1 of their 'front 3' against lower division teams to make sure they stay fresh for the big games, although would they have that luxury with the English game being more physical?

2) IMO Dani Alves is their most important player after Messi, as he makes himself free on the right wing for the majority of games and Xavi looks for him if Messi is tightly marked. I haven't seen enough games this season to be certain, but I think english teams have more 'defensive wingers' in comparison to spanish teams, who could dampen Dani Alves' impact.

3) Apart from the 2 CB's, would Barcelona's team be able to cope against teams like Stoke & Blackburn? (Even though Barca will have the majority of possession, it only takes 1 or 2 set-pieces to create a chance for those teams)

i think they would find it tougher than people think, barca are not great defending from set pieces, but one of the few thing english sides do better than others is get goals from set pieces

also alves would certainly find it tougher here

 

[jamescfc]

Some of my mates were having a discussion earlier and the topic was: If Barcelona were in the premiership, would they win it?

There are quite a few points to consider:
1) Barcelona like to rest 1 of their 'front 3' against lower division teams to make sure they stay fresh for the big games, although would they have that luxury with the English game being more physical?

2) IMO Dani Alves is their most important player after Messi, as he makes himself free on the right wing for the majority of games and Xavi looks for him if Messi is tightly marked. I haven't seen enough games this season to be certain, but I think english teams have more 'defensive wingers' in comparison to spanish teams, who could dampen Dani Alves' impact.

3) Apart from the 2 CB's, would Barcelona's team be able to cope against teams like Stoke & Blackburn? (Even though Barca will have the majority of possession, it only takes 1 or 2 set-pieces to create a chance for those teams)

Very good points. However i watch spanish football often. Probably more than i watch epl. Teams in la liga when upagainst barca almost always play with 10 men behind the ball ,mostly because they are forced to) and alves still manages to find space similar to the arsenal game. Teams such as Bilbao and sporting Gjion play similar to stoke and alves still enjoys the freedom of the right wing

 

[Vanjagl]

OT: I ******* lold. This is first season since god knows when that 2 spanish clubs got ( not yet, but they are close) into semi-final. And you are talking about spanish domination ? To be fair, Barcelona has dream team and Real has one of the best managers ( and some wc players). But they showed 'domination' against Shakhar and Spurs ( first season in ECL), much weaker sides. It doesnt sound legit to me.
Off topic:
Barcelona would have to adopt to english football because english football is much more physical. They would have more injuries and less creative freedom. I would love to see Barcelona in EPL, but thats not going to happen.