Carragher to focus on Liverpool

[GodCubed]

So immense that Capello persuaded Carragher to come out of retirement rather than select Dawson for the initial 23 man squad? That's on the back of his best ever season apparantly. I'll stick to my judgement of him - decent defender of the classic English stopper mould but nothing special even now. I know he's a bit of a cult hero for you Spuds, but I'm just saying what I've seen of him. If he were better than he is, I'd be sure to give him credit (like I do for King and Woodgate).

Very true, although personally I'm willing to let him develop a bit more before I cast judgement.

Curtis Davies of Villa has been injured this season, but before that he was putting in some quality performances. He's quick too, one thing which most of the other contenders lack.

 

[Mike.]

Validy of my reasoning, Your so Pro Gerrard your trying to pin stuff on Lampard, Just like every other liverpool fan you fail to see Gerrard was pure dog ***** against Germany, englands worst attacking player. Of course you say,, "he tried to make something happen" blah blah blah, but the reality is, all he tried to do was Shoot. He made little key passes if Any what so ever. So blame Lampards Lack of tracking back in the 67th minute, when we where 2-1 down. This isnt Fm where you only need to have a player stay forward once to score. It takes longer then an actual minute, for a change in mentality to work.


Dawson did have the best 6 months of his life, He was better then all the CB who went for england in that Prem Season. Just cause Fabio hadnt the balls to play him. Doesnt mean **** all, apart from the big decisions where bottled.

Well he took them players, It makes me laugh that he didnt take Walcott becuase he cuts inside and doesnt stay wide. then Played a CM on the Left and Played SWP( who is *****). So he took the players knowing what they where capable and like, it is like anything in life. You take a player knowing his tendancies as a player.

I use Cricket as an example to illustrate this, so theres no confusion.
If England selected Craig Kieswetter for the test match series, knowing he is an aggressive, risk taking batsmen. They then couldnt have ago at him, for going out playing an attackive shot surely the same applys with Capello playing Gerrard on the left. and Lampard in CM, there playing there games, and if they didnt suit the tactic/idea he had, maybe he should drop them or change it,

[COLOR=#00e0]---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------[/COLOR]



I am sure that made sense in your head, but Of the top of my head, wasnt germany Third goal a counter from a free kick taken by lampard, 30ish yards out, didnt he appeal for handball, not get it, then chased back further then the man who lost the rebound, and actually was in our box when the shot was taken, not 100% on that, pretty sure though Frank made more of an attemp then others.

and the 4th, Gerrard passing the ball to the germans, mis placed meant for lampard inside the Germany box? Then a big kick forward put Ozil in, beating Barry for pace, then passing across to someone else, so you expect lampard to get from the germans box to our box in what 8 secs, World record pace.

Good work there, that possible, can defo see it was his fault for the goals.

where i did i even mention the goals? im talking about the game in general, we sliced open because he didnt track back enough, particularly in dealing with ozil; if barry is going deeper to pick him up, Lampard must track back more against bastians runs.

Though l will mention Lampard was partially at fault, along with for the third:
When the free kick rebounds to Barry, he gets caught in possession with no cover behind him. Should never have tried to move forward with the ball in that situation knowing all his central defenders were up. Lampard made the situation worse by failing to drop deeper and central as Barry committed. Barry's fault, with plently of help from Lampard.

Too often Lampard let the play pass him by when he needed to track back, and in a two man against a 3 man midfield thats reckless

 

[Scott]

where i did i even mention the goals? im talking about the game in general, we sliced open because he didnt track back enough, particularly in dealing with ozil; if barry is going deeper to pick him up, Lampard must track back more against bastians runs.

Though l will mention Lampard was partially at fault, along with for the third:
When the free kick rebounds to Barry, he gets caught in possession with no cover behind him. Should never have tried to move forward with the ball in that situation knowing all his central defenders were up. Lampard made the situation worse by failing to drop deeper and central as Barry committed. Barry's fault, with plently of help from Lampard.

Bigger picture?

One goal was a defensive **** up, from a massive kick forward, last time i checked. Germany played 4-5-1. So i would of imagined anyone would common sense would of let a CB follow Ozil when he makes then runs.

Oh Wait Upson did follow him, and ****** up on it, cause he also followed him when he went into CM posion, LAM position. So again how is this lampards fault

 

[Zebedee]

Validy of my reasoning, Your so Pro Gerrard your trying to pin stuff on Lampard, Just like every other liverpool fan you fail to see Gerrard was pure dog ***** against Germany, englands worst attacking player. Of course you say,, "he tried to make something happen" blah blah blah, but the reality is, all he tried to do was Shoot. He made little key passes if Any what so ever. So blame Lampards Lack of tracking back in the 67th minute, when we where 2-1 down. This isnt Fm where you only need to have a player stay forward once to score. It takes longer then an actual minute, for a change in mentality to work.

I'm sorry, could you point me to somewhere or something I've said which could support your theory in this part of the post? Because either I've forgotten posting something (very possible) or your talking *****. Would be helpful to know

Dawson did have the best 6 months of his life, He was better then all the CB who went for england in that Prem Season. Just cause Fabio hadnt the balls to play him. Doesnt mean **** all, apart from the big decisions where bottled.

Or could it mean that Dawson isn't Bobby Moore come again for a second bite at life's cherry?

Well he took them players, It makes me laugh that he didnt take Walcott becuase he cuts inside and doesnt stay wide. then Played a CM on the Left and Played SWP( who is *****). So he took the players knowing what they where capable and like, it is like anything in life. You take a player knowing his tendancies as a player.

If you think Gerrard is a CM then you've not been watching football since c.2004.

I use Cricket as an example to illustrate this, so theres no confusion.
If England selected Craig Kieswetter for the test match series, knowing he is an aggressive, risk taking batsmen. They then couldnt have ago at him, for going out playing an attackive shot surely the same applys with Capello playing Gerrard on the left. and Lampard in CM, there playing there games, and if they didnt suit the tactic/idea he had, maybe he should drop them or change it,

You'd have every right to ******* him if he'd been given instructions to play safe for a session and he got himself out trying to knock the spinner through mid-on. And if he can't play safe when required, then he's not a top player is he? Hold on a second, about Lampard....

I am sure that made sense in your head, but Of the top of my head, wasnt germany Third goal a counter from a free kick taken by lampard, 30ish yards out, didnt he appeal for handball, not get it, then chased back further then the man who lost the rebound, and actually was in our box when the shot was taken, not 100% on that, pretty sure though Frank made more of an attemp then others.

I've highlighted the bit which is important for you. Appeal - get denied - then chase. Spot the problem? Your midfield cover has just lost possession on the edge of the opposition penalty area - at what level of football is your best option to appeal to the referee rather than make sure you cut out any chance of the break?

and the 4th, Gerrard passing the ball to the germans, mis placed meant for lampard inside the Germany box? Then a big kick forward put Ozil in, beating Barry for pace, then passing across to someone else, so you expect lampard to get from the germans box to our box in what 8 secs, World record pace.

No, I'm expecting him not to be in the box standing in a line with everyone else. Oh noes - heresy, asking Lampard to be in a position to make a late run in the box like he does for his club side but also be in a position to cover the fact that both wingers are in the box, the central defenders have pushed right up and England only have Cole and Barry in defence. Mind you, two goals down, hey ho, might as well be three right?

Good work there, that possible, can defo see it was his fault for the goals.

Glad you appreciate me taking the time to pointing out the blazingly obvious for your benefit.

 

[Mike.]

Bigger picture?

One goal was a defensive **** up, from a massive kick forward, last time i checked. Germany played 4-5-1. So i would of imagined anyone would common sense would of let a CB follow Ozil when he makes then runs.

Oh Wait Upson did follow him, and ****** up on it, cause he also followed him when he went into CM posion, LAM position. So again how is this lampards fault

klose' movement meant he occupied both upson and terry, which meant that barry had to track ozil, which is where lampard needed to show positional awareness, defensive solidity in tracking bastian, it meant he that shouldnt have pushed forward every opportunity (which he did) and when he did push forward, he need to then track back against the on coming khedira and bastian (which he didnt).

Not only that, when ozil wandered into his zone, he still didnt pick him up, which is why ozil got plenty of ball on the german left side

We were lucky not to be 4-1 down going into half time, he was just lucky enough we wernt further punished due to good saves by james, and german misses. and we finally got punished for it on the 3rd goal where he didnt track back enough

and germany played 4-2-3-1 not 4-5-1

 

[CJACKO11]

i think people are forgetting lampard dosent have to do any defending whilst at chelsea so thats why sometimes he gets left exposed for england.

 

[Mike.]

i think people are forgetting lampard dosent have to do any defending whilst at chelsea so thats why sometimes he gets left exposed for england.

this what we're trying to get across.in a two man midfield, lampard has to do defend an track. in effect lampard isnt a central midfielder at all, and like gerrard, has no business playing in a 4-4-2

and i think his career internationally could be toast, though i'd like him to be given the amc slot an 4-2-3-1, at least while we blood wilshere

 

[CJACKO11]

this what we're trying to get across.in a two man midfield, lampard has to do defend an track. in effect lampard isnt a central midfielder at all, and like gerrard, has no business playing in a 4-4-2

oh yer totaly in agreement with you, thats why if you have a look lampard scored most ov his goals towards the end ov the season when carlo switched to a 4-3-3. at the start ov the season we were playing a 4-4-2 says it all really. if you want to get the best out ov the pair ov them then you cant play 4-4-2 simples.

 

[Mike.]

oh yer totaly in agreement with you, thats why if you have a look lampard scored most ov his goals towards the end ov the season when carlo switched to a 4-3-3. at the start ov the season we were playing a 4-4-2 says it all really. if you want to get the best out ov the pair ov them then you cant play 4-4-2 simples.

agreed. but 3 managers aover 10 years have persisted with this and i just dont know why... not only that, you can only ever have one starting.

 

[CJACKO11]

agreed. but 3 managers aover 10 years have persisted with this and i just dont know why... not only that, you can only ever have one starting.

yer and personly i think at international level it should be gerrard starting.

 

[Mike.]

yer and personly i think at international level it should be gerrard starting.

really? i'd have lampard, since your not asking to defend, hes got a better range of passing than gerrard, who looks for the direct option way too much. it will be interesting see what squad gets named for hungary

 

[CJACKO11]

really? i'd have lampard, since your not asking to defend, hes got a better range of passing than gerrard, who looks for the direct option way too much. it will be interesting see what squad gets named for hungary

yer it will be, im still debating whever to go or not. i cant see terry being picked all the time fabio is in charge.

 

[Mike.]

mmm i might go, if capello sticks to his words, we'll be seeing a big change and i'd to watch the new guard play for the first time

 

[Zebedee]

oh yer totaly in agreement with you, thats why if you have a look lampard scored most ov his goals towards the end ov the season when carlo switched to a 4-3-3. at the start ov the season we were playing a 4-4-2 says it all really. if you want to get the best out ov the pair ov them then you cant play 4-4-2 simples.

Spot on that.

What confuses me is that Ancelotti and Capello are very closely 'related' tactically and I'm amazed Capello and Ancelotti didn't talk about this very issue and what Ancelotti had learned during his season at Chelsea about certain players in certain formations. (Capello took over and modified Sacchi's AC Milan side. Ancelotti was the 'conductor who couldn't read sheet music' who Sacchi had training with the kids at AC until he had nailed down what he was meant to be doing in terms of movement and positioning.)

*shrug*

 

[Mike.]

Spot on that.

What confuses me is that Ancelotti and Capello are very closely 'related' tactically and I'm amazed Capello and Ancelotti didn't talk about this very issue and what Ancelotti had learned during his season at Chelsea about certain players in certain formations. (Capello took over and modified Sacchi's AC Milan side. Ancelotti was the 'conductor who couldn't read sheet music' who Sacchi had training with the kids at AC until he had nailed down what he was meant to be doing in terms of movement and positioning.)

*shrug*

it baffles me because the old adage that england can only play 4-4-2 rings a little hollow because the top teams dont play 4-4-2 at all, with exception of united occaisonally ( though you could now argue that spurs,who do play 4-4-2, form part of that top tier). and at this level playing a good 4-4-2 is more difficult to achieve than say a 4-2-3-1