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^ Agreed with Brian. I reckon we could definitely give India a run for their money in the subcontinent. Better spinner, vastly better seamers, a batting order that has no real weak link and brilliant squad depth.
I would also like to add...
making Morgan ODI captain for the match v Ireland could be a really bad idea as it will get us even more fired up.
Wish I could have gotten tickets considering its down in the club i play for :'(
If we do win I hope it gets us even more noticed for full status. especially after Zimbabwae got their's back and and have beaten Bangladesh into the ground.
P.S. Cusack to get a five-for and a century on his local ground :wub:
making Morgan ODI captain for the match v Ireland could be a really bad idea as it will get us even more fired up.
Wish I could have gotten tickets considering its down in the club i play for :'(
If we do win I hope it gets us even more noticed for full status. especially after Zimbabwae got their's back and and have beaten Bangladesh into the ground.
P.S. Cusack to get a five-for and a century on his local ground :wub:
Stann
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Yeah but you had Kumble then! That's the difference. Not mentioning that the rest of your team isn't half as good as it was then. Kumar, Sharma, and Mishra would struggle to bowl Zimbabwe out!
Shame Sharma who took highest wickets in WIndies. We have Harbhajan.
Kumble was not the sole reason, Harbhajan bowled very well and won us many games.
But meh, will see how long you dominate..
---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------
Wow, didn't Cook play against India in India? or in Sub continent? Talk about making wild prediction.
Mishra is back up. We have Harbhajan.
---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------
Didn't you play with Swann in Lanka? How did he do? Better than Murali?
We too never had any weakness in batting, just our lack of form giving us torrid times.
Playing in your home turf is completely different from playing in sub continent no matter how you lot play down that as batting friendly. When the wicket break down from 3rd play its **** tough to play spinners and also Medium pacers.
Like I said Aussies who were twice the team England is and were beating teams for run were ******** bricks at Sub continent. Its easy to make wild predictions when everything goes well, it takes one loss of form. And Anderson is as useless as Praveen Kumar in sub continent pitches.
Only Flintoff was awesome there, no without him I can see England struggling in sub continent in Tests and ODIs where we have won 6-1 and 6-0 last 2 times against you.
---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------
Cook averages 43 in Inida and 46 in Lanka. well thats very poor for someone who will never get out
What, in the world cup? Think he's only played against Sri Lanka away twice, once in the 2000 when he was a bit *****, and once in the 2011 World Cup where he ended up as our highest wicket taker. Being not as good as Murali has no shame at all.
That's not true. I refuse to believe Suresh Raina is a Test quality batsman.
Which is why we would definitely have a chance. Our bowling attack, in both spin and seam departments, is far superior to India, who rely on an injury-prone Zaheer and Harbhajan Singh, who's been **** recently.
But the best thing is, we have brilliant depth in the seam bowling department. If Jimmy loses form, call up Finn, Bresnan, Jade Dernbach, whoever. They're all wonderful backups.
Except we're a completely different animal now to what we were then, and some might argue India are too. We've got the right mix of everything, and India seem woefully reliant on individual batting superstars like Dravid, Tendulkar, Sehwag and Laxman.
Cook averages 43 in Inida and 46 in Lanka. well thats very poor for someone who will never get out
Just goes to show averages don't show everything.
I was checking. Was not sure about him. Thought he played recently in Lanka.
Early days. We have Rohit Sharma Veerat Kohli who are good technically and Badrinath who never got chance, and what not Pujara.
Crappy Bhajji and Injury prone Zak hasn't done too bad isn't it. Lead our attack and didn't lose a series for 3 years. Our bowlers know conditions better than any so its obvious advantage.
Funny how this is getting ignored. Likes of McGrath and Warne were able to beat us only once in India. You are not better than them. Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Waugh, Gilchrist and co..
When I said Jimmy Anderson, I meant all the bowlers who rely on conditions and pitch. It includes everyone.
You mentioned four players and say we rely on individuals. Not getting your point. They are our back bone. Gambhir, Dhoni haven't played badly either.
You were different animal in 2005 when you won some 10 tests on trot. Can see samething happening again.
Just goes to show how you overrate some of your players. Average shows everything. He has not done too great at sub continent to call him as someone who wont get out.
Like I said We deserved to lose this series, but some of the comments are really funny. England domination, England Era, bla bla bla.
How many series did you play away from England except Ashes against depleted side(Still massive credit though). Hardly any series. Winning home series and calling world domination is really funny.
Second best side ever Australia while dominating whole world couldn't do **** in India. You lot just underestimate subcontinent. Just because you won in England doesn't mean you will in India and Lanka.
Deserved #1? Yes. Just
Complete domination? Have to prove everywhere not just in England.
You just jel
Graeme Swann was as good a spinner as VVS Laxman is, during the World Cup....and I distinctly remember him saying before the tournament that he was gonna take the World Cup by storm because the sub-continental conditions suit spinners, and that he was the best one in the world...We all know how he did...
And its so funny to see people think that they can beat India at their home, just because they beat a team that came to play with them completely unprepared...
And its so funny to see people think that they can beat India at their home, just because they beat a team that came to play with them completely unprepared...
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Top reply, great banter.
Jealous for being World champions? Yes I'm..
We are having a reasonable argument/debate, if you have points please add them, otherwise...... Nothing personal..
---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------
Would like to add one more point. Swann is a good spinner that doesn't mean he will do wonders in sub continent.
Warne who was the best ever spinner, had amazing career and took wickets in every nation, but his record in India is just below average. 34 Wickets in 9 Test matches, averaging 43 runs per wicket and also with a striker rate of 81.
Simple, just cos you are good spinner doesn't mean you are nailed on to do great in India against India..
---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------
Also Murali who was the second best or arguable THE BEST, 40 wickets in 11 matches, averaging 46 runs per wicket and with striker rate of 86..
So people need to get a grip when they make wild predictions.. Swann is good, no where near the class of Warne and Murali..
And for those who will say that Swann was England's best bowler in the WC... He took 2 against Holland, 3 against Ireland, 2 against Bangladesh and 3 against West Indies.......and 2 in total against all of the teams ranked above 5 in the World... Not even featuring in the top 10 wicket-takers of the tournament...Hardly "Best-in-the-World" like...
True, and I think Sharma could well be a staple of the side soon, but as it is you're picking Raina ahead of him, and if you keep doing that you'll keep having an obvious weak point in the batting line-up.
But they're both the wrong side of 30. Zaheer, whilst still a wonderful player, can't spearhead the team for much longer. Harbhajan's form recently has been atrocious, he's been a better batsman than a bowler. It's all very well and good saying they've lead your attack for three years and therefore they'll be fine, but this series alone shows what's going wrong: Zaheer gets and injury and Harbhajan fails, and then your attack is almost entirely toothless.
A better team doesn't necessarily equate to a better result. The Ashes 2005 for example: the Aussies were better than us man for man, but we won through performing better than they did. Same applies here. Just because the all-conquering Aussie side couldn't beat you (as a side note, couldn't beat you when this current side was much younger and fitter, and had the likes of Kumble) doesn't mean we can't.
Hardly. Tremlett, even without the bonus of swing, can still frighten batsmen with pace and bounce. Broad's accuracy is always a threat, and Finn is a wicket taker. England have a variety of threats throughout the bowling line-up, and unless you're suggesting subcontinent pitches negate ALL bowlers of ALL varieties England can threaten.
My point is that England don't have any stand-out players that the side builds themselves around and relies upon. Everyone is of a roughly equal level. If one fails, another steps forward. Whereas aside from India's batting line-up, in which they are almost flawless (apart from Raina) the levels of quality fluctuate greatly. Again, as seen in this series with Zaheer's injury.
Except that team never played together again. Simon Jones' injuries finally caught up with him, Matthew Hoggard declined, Marcus Trescothick suffered from homesickness and was never the same again, Michael Vaughan lost form and Freddie Flintoff got injured again and again. We were an excellent team, but we didn't have the squad depth to keep up the same level of performance when key players got injured. Now we do.
In what sense does average show everything? What a load of old bollocks that is. You would agree Flintoff was an excellent player? His averages are relatively poor. Matthew Hayden, the greatest flat-track bully there ever was, has a brilliant batting average. Nobody would argue that Jonathan Trott is one of the greatest batsmen ever, yet his average suggests just that.
Alastair Cook has improved no end. From his last time in India, where he played fairly alright, he has become one of the best batsmen in the world. His technique has got better and his work with Gower has made him into an excellent opener. I'm not suggesting he won't get out ever, obviously, that would be stupid, but he would go to India as one of England's better batsmen.
Sigh. Who said he was our best bowler? I said 'leading wicket taker', which he was. Read the post please.
India all out for 300, Dravid carries his bat. Great knock for him.
Haven't read all of this thread but has anyone actually said that?
Swann isn't a great spinner but he takes his wickets, not even close to be on Warne and Murali's level.
This is a good England team but nothing great. Our press seem to hype it up. If we want to be considered we need to dominate test cricket for a long period of time like the Aussies of the 90's/early 2000's or the Windies in the 70's. We haven't done much to show we are a great side. We beat an average Australia side, a poor Sri Lanka side and a declining India side who were ravaged by injuries. May be the best in the world but doesn't show how we compare to teams from other generations.
And you got love Sehwag <3
They all are young and will get chances. Raina is not that bad. He is having stinker but he is good batsman and very new to test cricket.
Swann is older than Bhajji and year younger than Zak. Zak will play for few more years as he never relied on pace or big run up. Yes we were under prepared and exposed brutally in this series. Sharma did very well in Windies and also was awesome when he first came. He will become consistent with experience. Even Zak was very erratic in his early years.
So can I say the same about England. India are better side but we haven't got the results we desired?
In a same way, just because England dominated us in England doesn't mean you will win in India. I'm just giving examples of how teams dominated us in their home turf but looked clueless in India. Well I have given example of 2 greatest spinners ever to play the game too.
Yes, Tremlett can. Thats is. Broad, Finn will be just ordinary in those pitches. I dont know why you meant by Variety as there will be hardly any juice in the wicket. Sajid Mahmood (sp) used to bowl well in England and was taken for big ride there in India. Just one more example. Bowling in Pacer friendly track is very different to bowling in Sub continent pitches bar Pak.
First time we are seeing all our top players under performing. We always had few players chipping in with good scores. Still dont see the point or how you are saying we are over reliant on one player. This series was excepting. Apart from this we never had this kind of stinker.
Fair enough. We will see how this current lot cope with up busy schedules.
Saying Hayden is a flat track bully is lazy way of downplaying his achievement. He has scored consistently well against all teams. Check out here.
Then what exactly average shows? No Trott is not the greatest. Higher average may be coz of number of not outs and all. What excuse you have for lower average?
Yes he has improved from last year. Before that he had stinker. But they way you lot overrated saying Cook will take us for big ride is bit funny as we many great. more talented, more technically gifted players have played in India and we have found a way to deal with them.
---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------
Andy, we have few people saying England has a better spin attack than India so they wont have problem beating us in India. So just made a quick research on how 2 of the greatest spinners did in India. They had brilliant record in every part of the world bar India, so when the greatest spinners can bowl as average ones, there is every chances that player who is not close to their league can.
Hope I made it clear