apvmoreira
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Would love to have these OIs in a bigger pic, can't see it so small.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Destress 41230. Time for a new match engine?
- Thread starter marksj2
- Start date
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Ok mate so first thing first... i used different Opposite instructions! i fond that these ones can improve any tactic alot! i think it helps defensively...
then i changed:
*Defensive middfielder role to DEfensive Midfielder (Defend)
*put on all defenders "tackle harder" option
*change striker to "Deep lying Forward" on SUPPORT duty + add "shoot less often, tackle harder, move into channels" options
*On team instructions take off "Use ofside trap" duty
*Mentality changed to "Standard"
so its quet alotbut just look at the results! specialy man city away game! mate you find a magic thing!!!
View attachment 1094981
ive been tweaking for around 100 games (all played in KEY mode) so i am going to start a proper save!
OHHH by the way! I REALLY recommend to use TIME WASTE tactic! This mentality is VERY FLUID so its always conceding at the last 15 mins! we have to protect the lead!
here is the tweak to download if some one want to...
https://www.mediafire.com/?0ampoqoa0hv0uvg
were waste time tactic?
broeckie84
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BOOM
MartianMoleInAHole
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I have been using Veez' Strikerless tactic but found it unpredictable, like so many, since the update. Im almost at the end of my second season in the PL with Rochdale and thought i'd try this with a striker tweak as ive had trouble retraining SS for the previous tactic.
Anyway, first up City away and below is what happened. Im off to test it some more but the left side filled with pace killed them.
View attachment 112654View attachment 112653
The 2 regens in my team are progressing and by no way stars, making the result even more impressive
View attachment 112652View attachment 112651
results before weren't great
View attachment 112650
No OI's, *** man training, no change to instructions
Anyway, first up City away and below is what happened. Im off to test it some more but the left side filled with pace killed them.
View attachment 112654View attachment 112653
The 2 regens in my team are progressing and by no way stars, making the result even more impressive
View attachment 112652View attachment 112651
results before weren't great
View attachment 112650
No OI's, *** man training, no change to instructions
been took off buddy could you uploaded it for me please
Open this thread there is waste time tactic in the bottom!
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-17-tactics/361182-warlord.html
Ok mate so first thing first... i used different Opposite instructions! i fond that these ones can improve any tactic alot! i think it helps defensively...
then i changed:
*Defensive middfielder role to DEfensive Midfielder (Defend)
*put on all defenders "tackle harder" option
*change striker to "Deep lying Forward" on SUPPORT duty + add "shoot less often, tackle harder, move into channels" options
*On team instructions take off "Use ofside trap" duty
*Mentality changed to "Standard"
so its quet alot
View attachment 1094981
ive been tweaking for around 100 games (all played in KEY mode) so i am going to start a proper save!
OHHH by the way! I REALLY recommend to use TIME WASTE tactic! This mentality is VERY FLUID so its always conceding at the last 15 mins! we have to protect the lead!
here is the tweak to download if some one want to...
https://www.mediafire.com/?0ampoqoa0hv0uvg
Better this 1 or the 1 you posted on the thread tactics from around the world? it is a 4-3-3 with wingbacks and CF-A
Glad you've found something that works for you Martian, but I think you've changed this enough to be your own tactic haha! I cant take credit for this result, its all yours.
JamesBale11
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I like where this tactic is going, very strong at home but poor away.. the tweak with the different OI's is awful though
Thanks Wigo, love the enthusiasm! I was meaning what is KEY mode?Berahino as deep lying forvard scored 5 goals in 6 games
WARNING - Wall of text that is quite META on FM17 in general, would be great to create a discussion around it though - open to everyone to reply.
I havent had a chance to play other the last couple of days but have been thinking quite a bit in terms of improvement and the match engine. It looks like to me that the ME adapts to tactics a lot quicker and hence people that use the same tactic without making adjustments for 10+ games, the ME picks how to nulify the tactic, which is fair enough and makes us change and improve. So since the ME is always adapting it means that we all will never be in the same 'phase' of what tactic will work best and we will always need to change/mix up the tactic to keep the ME guessing. BUT if we both played the same tactic for 10 games, we would find that the ME would play an almost identical game against us, thus meaning that our ME are almost synced. And if our ME are almost synced, we are able to bring in a new tactic that the ME struggles against and then slowly adapts to before we change again...
So what I am getting at is rather than us thinking and creating what tactic works best at a certain time in their own iteration of the match engine, as a FM17 community we should be finding a combination of 3 tactics (due to there being 3 slots) that are easy for our teams to adapt to but counter the ME's new setup that is designed to negate our 'exploit' of the engine that we change after every 10 games or so whilst keeping the same OI's constant. Do you follow me?
As an example I have found that my original tactic that I created I found that I would absolutely dominate and destroy teams. But after around 10 games, I still dominate teams but im not scoring as many as I used to due to the opponent man marking my Raumdeuters, defending very deep, narrow, and blocking space around their penalty box, and also playing down the wing on a counter attack and getting lucky when my IWB's miss a tackle and then sneaking a disgusting 'break and cross' goal which is frustrating to no end and purely down to defensive error.
So now that the ME has negated the strong benefits of my original tactic, I will need another tactic - either currently posted or yet to be created - that exploits the deep, defensive, counter attacking style that the opponent now uses against me. I think the general tactic set up works amazingly in exploiting the ME at a point in time as your does as well, but we should now be building a tactic that builds on from our theories in order to exploit the ME once it catches up.
What are every ones thoughts on this?
TL;DR
- Theory: If we were all to play the same tactic for around 10-15+ games, the ME would play a very similar (defensive) game against us
- Since the ME adapts to our attacking exploits over time, we should create 3 similar but tactically different stratigies (im thinking very similar formation but different roles and instructions) to cycle through and keep the ME from neutralizing our one tactic.
- As a community we shouldn't be looking to create one tactic that exploits the ME at that point in time, but we should be looking to create 3 tactics that synergize together and exploit the ME in order to keep the tactics attacking effectiveness.
- Discuss
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Very nice idea mate! I think thats what i am struggling a lil bit! I am testing new tweak and at the beggining i was just smashing everyone but later start scrapping silly 1:0 victories or lost away 3:0... so i think yess we should build something to ME start guessing and not preparing for the same defence!
wijnandfens
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Thanks James!I like where this tactic is going, very strong at home but poor away.. the tweak with the different OI's is awful though
Ive been thinking about this as well, it is effective for my team but I find I concede more away which makes sense but I can influence and change this. Mainly from down the wing which I am thinking about changing the original OI's just slightly to force the AML/AMR inside along with harder tackling or maybe even containing them so not closing down... still need to test it.
Can you tell me where your goals are coming from? and how the opposition is defending against you?
Great to hear Chris! That TFF Vortex V6 sounds great, can you link it please?
It would be great if you could post some screens! If you go to IMGUR and upload them there I found that the easies way. Otherwise when you are posting a message on this site there is a picture button just above and you can link them from there.
Really interested in seeing these.
I agree. Something similar to how Xper's advanced Warfare works, but instead of using tactics for Home/Away/Defend, it may be better to use tactics as 3 tactics that are dominant home and away but are cycled through when they are learnt by the ME.
apvmoreira
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I use this system for 3 different tactics for a long time and it works very well, but there is some things that i don't agree.
The ME don't guess, the game AI does and the AI exploits the ME in a way we can't, because they live in the same "house".
So, if you attack by the flanks and changes to attack the middle, the AI will always defend near box, because our oppressive style will make them drop deeper, and they will try to pump the ball or attack the flanks, because its the only way the AI have to counter our defensive routines.
As in real life, we can make a great tactic that works in 99% of the game situations, but the AI will bet on that 1% to score. And maybe because its their only chance, they will concentrate everything that they have in that moment to score. The reason why small teams win games.
And this comes to the Big/small team issue. IMO, its harder to score against smaller teams do to the fact that they will always defend in the box, deeper, etc. Bigger teams play wider and we have more space to make your tactic work. They rely on their strengths as a big team to score. So, if you score 7 against city, that's not a big deal, the big deal is to score 7 against the smaller teams!!
Crack the defensive system of a smaller team and you don't need to worry about counters.
The ME don't guess, the game AI does and the AI exploits the ME in a way we can't, because they live in the same "house".
So, if you attack by the flanks and changes to attack the middle, the AI will always defend near box, because our oppressive style will make them drop deeper, and they will try to pump the ball or attack the flanks, because its the only way the AI have to counter our defensive routines.
As in real life, we can make a great tactic that works in 99% of the game situations, but the AI will bet on that 1% to score. And maybe because its their only chance, they will concentrate everything that they have in that moment to score. The reason why small teams win games.
And this comes to the Big/small team issue. IMO, its harder to score against smaller teams do to the fact that they will always defend in the box, deeper, etc. Bigger teams play wider and we have more space to make your tactic work. They rely on their strengths as a big team to score. So, if you score 7 against city, that's not a big deal, the big deal is to score 7 against the smaller teams!!
Crack the defensive system of a smaller team and you don't need to worry about counters.
Yep, I 100% agree. Sorry when I was saying ME I was meaning AI but couldn't think of a better word - thank you.
What contrasting systems work well for you? Im thinking a fast paced attacking system which focuses centrally (like destress). Once the AI adjusts to this I think a system with low tempo, a F9 that camps in the opposition half with the ball and keeps possession which will (hopefully) bring the defense out (I havent thought on how it will attack), and possibly a 3rd tactic which focuses on wing play with deep crosses to bring their defensive line forward - as much as I dislike this boring style of play it is different enough to for the ME to adjust to.
If you have strong enough players that can hold on to the ball, if you can get the opponent to press you higher up the field, it will be easy to exploit the space. The question is on how to do this.
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