Do Player Stats REALLY make as much of a difference as we think?

[Mike.]

Im carrying it on as people are moaning at me?

I used Martins as an example for the name of the thread...

as i said before

you dont look at the stats individually but how they fit together. and thats when you realise lots of players that you would dismiss are actually very dangerous players if left alone

 

[Joel`]

Im carrying it on as people are moaning at me?

I used Martins as an example for the name of the thread...

People are moaning because you were moaning that it was ridiculous that Obafemi Martins should be capable of such a feat, that the AI were against you, and one of your players never carries the team the way AI players do.

 

[GodCubed]

Im carrying it on as people are moaning at me?

I used Martins as an example for the name of the thread...

Then as a direct answer to the thread name:

Player attributes (not stats, they're something different) affect how and what a player does in game, how he reacts, what he can and cannot do in the match engine. They are the bare bones: having a player with a certain mix of attributes in the right situation will mean he is able to do Specific Thing X. Then, on top of that you have things like form, condition, confidence, weather, and many other variables which also determine whether he can perform Specific Thing X. But the point is, if he didn't have those attributes then he wouldn't be able to do Specific Thing X at all. it would literally be impossible for him to do a 30 yard wondergoal or dribble round 8 defenders and the goalie.

So yes. Player attributes really do make as much of a difference as we think.

 

[laffles]

Ok. Fair point.

But surely single stats should have a great impact?
Berbatov has great first touch yet he has fairly average first touch in game.
I think it should matter more?
I get how stats link up. But if you have a player with great first touch you want him to have great in-game first touch rather than having it rely on others?

 

[Mike.]

Ok. Fair point.

But surely single stats should have a great impact?
Berbatov has great first touch yet he has fairly average first touch in game.
I think it should matter more?
I get how stats link up. But if you have a player with great first touch you want him to have great in-game first touch rather than having it rely on others?

berbatov if set up right is one of the most devastating players out there, if he could be more arsed he'd be godly
attribute dont work separately becuase it doesnt work like that in real life

 

[Joel`]

Ok. Fair point.

But surely single stats should have a great impact?
Berbatov has great first touch yet he has fairly average first touch in game.
I think it should matter more?
I get how stats link up. But if you have a player with great first touch you want him to have great in-game first touch rather than having it rely on others?

How can you rely on someone else for first touch? You control it or not. And Berbatov controls the majority of stuff, he's still prone to mis-control too. Just like real life. He'll control it against Blackpool when Scholes volleys it at him, then miss a relatively simple one. The attributes are a general view of the players strengths and attributes, not constant and certainties.

 

[GodCubed]

Ok. Fair point.

But surely single stats should have a great impact?
Berbatov has great first touch yet he has fairly average first touch in game.
I think it should matter more?
I get how stats link up. But if you have a player with great first touch you want him to have great in-game first touch rather than having it rely on others?

Well no, otherwise there's no point in having such a wide range of attributes. The more attributes there are, the more realistic a game is. As a rule, Berbatov's first touch is better than most other people's. 8/10 his first touch will be better than, I dunno, Karl Henry's. But it isn't perfect all the time, because that would be unrealistic.

People put too much stock by single attributes. You don't look at a player in real life and go "Oh he's got a long shot, he must be great at that all the time". All kinds of things can affect it: getting into positions for long shots, deciding when to do it, whether that person has the determination and flair to try it when they're 2-1 down in the 90th minute.

 

[laffles]

I know that. Its a general thing, understood.
What I'm saying is if you have a High First Touch attribute then He should have great in-game first touch. Whereas Rooney's in game first touch is far superior.
I understand that it relies on mental attributes to set how good they can put technical attributes into practice. Yet if a player has 20 first touch and 2 concentration You'd still expect him to have a fairly impeccable first touch, rather than the shocking one he will actually have...

Basically saying.
Though a balance of attributes is vital.
Single attributes should be worth more on there own than they currently are. A single attribute relies on far too many different attributes to make a high single attribute a worthwhile thing to have.

 

[Mike.]

I know that. Its a general thing, understood.
What I'm saying is if you have a High First Touch attribute then He should have great in-game first touch. Whereas Rooney's in game first touch is far superior.
I understand that it relies on mental attributes to set how good they can put technical attributes into practice. Yet if a player has 20 first touch and 2 concentration You'd still expect him to have a fairly impeccable first touch, rather than the shocking one he will actually have...

rooneys in game touch isnt superior, but rooney is built like a tank which helps him under pressure

 

[GodCubed]

I know that. Its a general thing, understood.
What I'm saying is if you have a High First Touch attribute then He should have great in-game first touch. Whereas Rooney's in game first touch is far superior.
I understand that it relies on mental attributes to set how good they can put technical attributes into practice. Yet if a player has 20 first touch and 2 concentration You'd still expect him to have a fairly impeccable first touch, rather than the shocking one he will actually have...

Why? If the player is distracted by something else, it'd be pretty **** hard for him to have a good first touch, wouldn't it? You try having a good first touch when your attention is elsewhere.

 

[Joel`]

I know that. Its a general thing, understood.
What I'm saying is if you have a High First Touch attribute then He should have great in-game first touch. Whereas Rooney's in game first touch is far superior.
I understand that it relies on mental attributes to set how good they can put technical attributes into practice. Yet if a player has 20 first touch and 2 concentration You'd still expect him to have a fairly impeccable first touch, rather than the shocking one he will actually have...

Are you sure you're not exaggerating? Sometimes when you expect something (Like an awesome first touch) the occasions he doesn't control it are the ones you take notice of. For instance, how many times have you sat there and thought "Wow, great first touch there, again." Rarely - because you'd be doing it multiple times a game, it just becomes a natural assumption. Yet the odd time he doesn't control it, you're up in arms shouting about how bad the touch is. Hence you've noticed the bad one, not noticed the multiple good ones.

---------- Post added at 05:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 AM ----------

Basically saying.
Though a balance of attributes is vital.
Single attributes should be worth more on there own than they currently are. A single attribute relies on far too many different attributes to make a high single attribute a worthwhile thing to have.

But attributes DO rely on others. They're not individually representative. Balotelli can have all the technique he wants, but his poor work rate and determination let him down. Steven Defour isn't technically brilliant, but he has superior mentals to a lot of people, which combine awesomely with his few good technical points. How do you think Messi would get on if he had 20 for dribbling, and 2 for agility? Andy Carroll with 5 for strength? Adel Taarabt can dribble with the best of them, does that mean he'll be in Barcelona's squad next season? Everything is interdependent.

 

[laffles]

Yes, Interdependent. Got it.

Im saying SOME stats are too interdependent.
Take Dribbling.

Stats of 19 dribbling and 13 agility, 12 acceleration, 10 flair and 14 work rate are going to be worse than
14 dribbling, 14 agility, 15 acceleration, 12 flair and 15 work rate in game.

So why have such high dribbling for the guy who is actually worse at dribbling?
Why not just make his dribbling worse?

 

[Joel`]

Yes, Interdependent. Got it.

Im saying SOME stats are too interdependent.
Take Dribbling.

Stats of 19 dribbling and 13 agility, 12 acceleration, 10 flair and 14 work rate are going to be worse than
14 dribbling, 14 agility, 15 acceleration, 12 flair and 15 work rate in game.

So why have such high dribbling for the guy who is actually worse at dribbling?
Why not just make his dribbling worse?

Because then there's no point in the other stats? Dribbling is just an individual bit of skill. If you don't have the physical attributes or the mentality to take advantage of it, then it won't be much use in a high level game. This doesn't make you a bad player, or a bad dribbler. It makes you a lower league player. Just look at freestyle players, you could say they have great dribbling, technique, creativity. But then there's a reason that they aren't playing professionally.

 

[Mike.]

Yes, Interdependent. Got it.

Im saying SOME stats are too interdependent.
Take Dribbling.

Stats of 19 dribbling and 13 agility, 12 acceleration, 10 flair and 14 work rate are going to be worse than
14 dribbling, 14 agility, 15 acceleration, 12 flair and 15 work rate in game.

So why have such high dribbling for the guy who is actually worse at dribbling?
Why not just make his dribbling worse?

it doesnt work by just picking a random bunch or attributes, it'll also be situationally specific

 

[GodCubed]

So why have such high dribbling for the guy who is actually worse at dribbling?
Why not just make his dribbling worse?

His dribbling won't be worse, it'll be more inconsistent.

The player with the higher dribbling will occasionally beat players the worse one can't, but occasionally he won't beat players he should be able to. Mentals ENABLE players to do things: worse mentals, less likely to do them.

 

[Mike.]

the former could be better than the latter too

 

[laffles]

What Im saying is:
"Why give a player such a high single attribute if they cant use it?"

 

[Mike.]

What Im saying is:
"Why give a player such a high single attribute if they cant use it?"

because they can use it. we've explained this so many times

 

[GodCubed]

What Im saying is:
"Why give a player such a high single attribute if they cant use it?"

They CAN use it, they just don't all the time.

For instance, look at Marc Albrighton. His crossing is superb, just like in real life. However, his decisions attribute means that sometimes he doesn't cross when he should and vice versa. If he had a higher rating, more or less every time he crossed it'd be brilliant.

 

[Joel`]

What Im saying is:
"Why give a player such a high single attribute if they cant use it?"

If a player has high finishing and low composure. He'll miss numerous chances, does it make him a bad finisher? NO. It means he'll be inconsistent, but there are still times he'll take your breath away with an expert finish. His mental stat is hampering his natural ability, it is not reducing his natural ability. That is why they are separate.