Euro 2012 Match Discussion Thread

[Lol_101]

GC saves the day

 

[Lol_101]

And tbh, if we had a fully fit squad, and weren't missing players like Lampard, the result could've been different imo. Tbh yeah we fell foul of the pens curse once again (and again Pirlos was just immense), but there were some positives, and some mature good performances from the younger lads like Welbeck. Even Walcott came good when needed.

If Jack Wilshere was fit, he would have really change the shape of the midfield. Expect a Cleverly and Wilshere midfield combo for WC 2014 And maybe Jack Rodwell. Not sure of Tom Huds.

 

[ajt09]

If Jack Wilshere was fit, he would have really change the shape of the midfield. Expect a Cleverly and Wilshere midfield combo for WC 2014 And maybe Jack Rodwell. Not sure of Tom Huds.

Not sure on Rodwell tbh. When he has been playing (which isn't a lot lately) his performances haven't been nearly as consistent as they have been. Wether or not it's down to injuries, or chopping and changing his position I can't tell yet. I have a feeling his fitness issues have stalled his development. Hopefully I'm wrong and he won't be a wasted talent because of injuries. This season will probably give a better indication on that

 

[InValide jr]

It wont matter who we play in midfield, unless we have 11 players comfortable in possesion and able to pass it out of defence like the italians , french, germans and spainish we will never be able to compete.

 

[Tyton]

To say Joe Hart is bad GK is just completely, utterly moronic, and i'm not even english. He had to deal with huge amount of shots on goal and hes been consistently very solid entire tournament. Other then - maybe - a bit of a blunder vs. France, but that wasn't an easy shot to save.

 

[Emile Heskey]

This game has been sooooooooo lame -_- Seriously, until now it's the weakest of the Semis.

IMO it was a pretty good match

 

[Snypar]

Erm ok. Name one keeper that would have saved Pirlo's pen-it was a worldie-not even Buffon would've expected that. Overrated players? Rooney overrated? Yeah ok. Clearly not match fit but HE IS WORLD CLASS. Welbeck is still learning his trade at this level so he shouldn't be getting to much stick. And once again Gerrard was not fit. This has been stated repeatedly. And btw-Nasri is no longer playing in the Euros

Yes we have had our frailties exposed, but to make the quarters, with a manager in charge very little amount of time, is better than expected tbh. Gerrard has been a world class player too-to say otherwise is total non-factual. That's all I'm saying as I'm seeing a lot of ott rubbish.

[video=youtube;zGyYRhoDAVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGyYRhoDAVg&feature=player_detailpage#t=14 0s[/video]

Skip to 2:20

 

[maxy67]

Conclusion - England lacked any tactical and technical abilities. In the modern football playing a passionate football which is played also in EPL is not enough. This is a reactive football, based on emotion rather than proactive based on principles. Playing in EPL perhaps played a bad joke for England as when they met technically gifted players and tactically strong side they were confused what to do and just narrowed their game and let their opponents dictate it. I am not saying EPL has no technically gifted players, infact there are and I can get at least 3 in my mind right now that play in the Euros - Nasri, Silva and Mata, however neither of them seems to be from a big quality for their nation in this tournament (Nasri and Silva being often subed, Mata not playing at all), while they are highly rated in EPL and beeing named as the stars of the league.

Premier League football and English football, is certainly less tactically astute than Italian football and Serie A your right. But I don't think its fair at all to call the Premier League (or England) totally based on emotion, and without technique: Rather than this being a truth, I'd say its more of a sterotype of English football, and may have been true in the past, but not anymore.

 

[sunilvk7]

looks like owen is jealous XD

well he may have said it in the good sense or in the bad sense, but since it's not exactly good for him I would bet on the bad sense. XD

Are you guys for real? It was obvious sign of expressing something unbelievable. If anything it just shows how much Owen was stunned to see Pirlo attempting that chip.

 

[LFCMarshall]

We will have more technically gifted players coming through, but the tactics will remain the same... So I still espect every game for us to on the back foot, with the other team dominating possession and the game

 

[slbenficacoach]

That's why I mentioned the good sense and the bad sense. Normally people have to think twice but I'd advise you to think three times in this case

Are you guys for real? It was obvious sign of expressing something unbelievable. If anything it just shows how much Owen was stunned to see Pirlo attempting that chip.

 

[craig curtis]

Yes we were outplayed and italy deserved to win, but how can we ever improve in tournaments playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Also another thing is players not even getting or playing much for there clubs i think this is a major problem with english players!

 

[CJACKO11]

Rooney and Young worst two players on the pitch, Gerrard once again England's best player at a major tournament.

This was his best every tournament for England! He was due one, i'd say its the only one he stood out in. I would also say Johnson, Hart and Terry were more consistent over the 4 games. The midfield got over ran and gave the ball away far too often but the defence actually done their job, if they didn't the scoreline could have been a pure humiliation yesterday.

Over rated and lucky England met one strong Italian side. In fact Ireland looked better than England, but at least the Irish tried to play football instead of Putting 8 players inside the 6 yard box. Poor Zonal Cattenaccio display from England. I am dissapointed actually from their lack of anything related to football. Luckily the Italians lack quality forward (despide having world class defence and mid).

In the following I am going to be critical, not flaming towards the English players.

GK - Being blond and handsome does not make you a good GK. Pirlo just humiliated him with this penalty shot and it might be the point when Italy won the penalties.

Defence - although having good defending abilities they just refuse to play with the ball. In the other hand the Italian defenders looked comfortable with the ball. Terry's pace was a real problem that forced England to drop their line deep after few long balls to Balotelli and Cassano.

Mid - I have no clue where the Gerard beeing world class came from. The mid was almost non existent, beside playing as extra bodies in the penalty box. They neither helped in building up the play, nor pressed the opposite mids and when they did they were looking funny. Where was the hard working Milner? Can you compare them to Pirlo, De Rossi and Marcisio?

Attack - a bunch of over rated players. I am sure Man UTD will soon start missing Berbatov. Both Welbeck and Rooney were shut down from Barzagli and Bonucci. The hard working Rooney apperantly become undisciplined (Balotelli looked like a model professional in comparison to Rooney in this game) to mark Pirlo and when he did he was not intelligent enough to do it correctly - the result Pirlo played around him and dictated the game.

The system - 4-4-2... should I even comment? Especially a system played with wingers instead of wide mids.

Conclusion - England lacked any tactical and technical abilities. In the modern football playing a passionate football which is played also in EPL is not enough. This is a reactive football, based on emotion rather than proactive based on principles. Playing in EPL perhaps played a bad joke for England as when they met technically gifted players and tactically strong side they were confused what to do and just narrowed their game and let their opponents dictate it. I am not saying EPL has no technically gifted players, infact there are and I can get at least 3 in my mind right now that play in the Euros - Nasri, Silva and Mata, however neither of them seems to be from a big quality for their nation in this tournament (Nasri and Silva being often subed, Mata not playing at all), while they are highly rated in EPL and beeing named as the stars of the league.

Italy in the other hand need to do smth with their attack. I can not agree that when Balotelli is your star player in the attack you have a decent attacking power...If they are able to bring some quality there against Germany they might stand a chance - they got world class defense and mid. It will be an interesting battle - Pirlo vs Yozil, De Rossi vs Bastian and even might be Buffon vs Neuer.

This is the second post i have seen from you and both have been truly and utterly full of bullshit.

 

[LFCMarshall]

This was his best every tournament for England! He was due one, i'd say its the only one he stood out in. I would also say Johnson, Hart and Terry were more consistent over the 4 games. The midfield got over ran and gave the ball away far too often but the defence actually done their job, if they didn't the scoreline could have been a pure humiliation yesterday.

World cup was a dismal one, but one Gerrard stood out in.. as for the Midfield, we had Milner and Young who were hatdly involved in any games, no matter how good Gerrard and Parker were.. 4 Italian players were always going to control the midfield

Defence was okay, but Italy had at least 6 clear cut chances, De rossi with the most notable, Montolivo with a volly over, Balotelli with a few one on one's.. Defence got caught with balls over the top at least 2 or 3 times...

Defence purely prevented Italy from having more clear cut chances, if the team actually could finish it would have been embarrasing..

PS: I do agree with what you said about Insanitys post... His Name says it all really...

 

[CJACKO11]

Yes we were outplayed and italy deserved to win, but how can we ever improve in tournaments playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Also another thing is players not even getting or playing much for there clubs i think this is a major problem with english players!

4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 are just formations, get the correct players to fit them formations and make sure all are pulling their weight then any formation can triumph over another formation.

We knew from the start England were going to try and play the way Chelsea won the Champions League and some aspects of it worked. The defence and goalkeeper were very strong and tight, limited the opposition to long range shots which a lot were blocked and others wayward or easy enough for Hart. Now we get to the midfield, with Chelsea we had a defensive mid in Mikel (Parker), a deep lying playmaker in Lampard (Gerrard), an inside winger who tracks back a lot in Kalou (Young) and where the problem lied with England is they had no Ramires type player on the right. In the 2nd leg vs Napoli Ramires was key, set up the first goal in Benfica and played a part in the clincher in the 2nd leg by drawing the defender away for Meireles to have a shot. He got the assist for the Drogba goal in the first leg against Barcelona and then went on to score what was the winner in the Camp Nou in the second leg. England also didn't have a Drogba type player who can play upfront on his own and when given the ball can easily beat 2-3 defenders on his own and produce something out of nothing.

The thing is England did have players who could have filled the Ramires and Drogba role but this is where my only criticism of Hodgson lies. He could have gone with either Walcott or AOC from the start in every game who could play the Ramires type role (not as good in my opinion but good enough). And he could have also stuck with Carroll who looked sensational in the game before he was dropped to play the Drogba type role (again, nowhere near as good but can do the role very well).

After looking at the game again the problem was not with the defence yesterday but was with the midfield and forwards. The defence done their job, if they didn't it would not have ended 0-0 that's for sure. But when the ball hit the midfield/frontline they lost possession way too easily forcing Italy to start a new wave of attacks.

 

[LFCMarshall]

4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 are just formations, get the correct players to fit them formations and make sure all are pulling their weight then any formation can triumph over another formation.

We knew from the start England were going to try and play the way Chelsea won the Champions League and some aspects of it worked. The defence and goalkeeper were very strong and tight, limited the opposition to long range shots which a lot were blocked and others wayward or easy enough for Hart. Now we get to the midfield, with Chelsea we had a defensive mid in Mikel (Parker), a deep lying playmaker in Lampard (Gerrard), an inside winger who tracks back a lot in Kalou (Young) and where the problem lied with England is they had no Ramires type player on the right. In the 2nd leg vs Napoli Ramires was key, set up the first goal in Benfica and played a part in the clincher in the 2nd leg by drawing the defender away for Meireles to have a shot. He got the assist for the Drogba goal in the first leg against Barcelona and then went on to score what was the winner in the Camp Nou in the second leg. England also didn't have a Drogba type player who can play upfront on his own and when given the ball can easily beat 2-3 defenders on his own and produce something out of nothing.

The thing is England did have players who could have filled the Ramires and Drogba role but this is where my only criticism of Hodgson lies. He could have gone with either Walcott or AOC from the start in every game who could play the Ramires type role (not as good in my opinion but good enough). And he could have also stuck with Carroll who looked sensational in the game before he was dropped to play the Drogba type role (again, nowhere near as good but can do the role very well).

After looking at the game again the problem was not with the defence yesterday but was with the midfield and forwards. The defence done their job, if they didn't it would not have ended 0-0 that's for sure. But when the ball hit the midfield/frontline they lost possession way too easily forcing Italy to start a new wave of attacks.

Apart from Balotelli missing 2 one on ones because of hesitating, De Rossi missing from two yards, Montolivo missing a clear volley after Balotellis turn and shot

They did have ALOT of long shots

But i dont think any aspect of the team were particularly good yesterday.. 0-0 doesn't always tell the whole story, we had alot of Luck yesterday just to stay in the game

 

[CJACKO11]

World cup was a dismal one, but one Gerrard stood out in.. as for the Midfield, we had Milner and Young who were hatdly involved in any games, no matter how good Gerrard and Parker were.. 4 Italian players were always going to control the midfield

Defence was okay, but Italy had at least 6 clear cut chances, De rossi with the most notable, Montolivo with a volly over, Balotelli with a few one on one's.. Defence got caught with balls over the top at least 2 or 3 times...

Defence purely prevented Italy from having more clear cut chances, if the team actually could finish it would have been embarrasing..

PS: I do agree with what you said about Insanitys post... His Name says it all really...

I will say Gerrard impressed me this tournament but yesterday he and well every midfielder in the world was shown how its done by Pirlo. I thought Gerrard was poor-average yesterday but a lot better then most. I agree the defence gave away some clear cut opportunities but with all the possession Italy was having/had they were going to get some.

 

[CJACKO11]

Apart from Balotelli missing 2 one on ones because of hesitating, De Rossi missing from two yards, Montolivo missing a clear volley after Balotellis turn and shot

They did have ALOT of long shots

But i dont think any aspect of the team were particularly good yesterday.. 0-0 doesn't always tell the whole story, we had alot of Luck yesterday just to stay in the game

I don't agree with the whole "luck" thing lol, luck is when the ball hits a beach ball and goes in or when your side is losing with not long to go and a bad fog sets in and the game is abandoned. It's a mixture of poor technique and decent defending in my eyes.

 

[Mike.]

4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 are just formations, get the correct players to fit them formations and make sure all are pulling their weight then any formation can triumph over another formation.

We knew from the start England were going to try and play the way Chelsea won the Champions League and some aspects of it worked. The defence and goalkeeper were very strong and tight, limited the opposition to long range shots which a lot were blocked and others wayward or easy enough for Hart. Now we get to the midfield, with Chelsea we had a defensive mid in Mikel (Parker), a deep lying playmaker in Lampard (Gerrard), an inside winger who tracks back a lot in Kalou (Young) and where the problem lied with England is they had no Ramires type player on the right. In the 2nd leg vs Napoli Ramires was key, set up the first goal in Benfica and played a part in the clincher in the 2nd leg by drawing the defender away for Meireles to have a shot. He got the assist for the Drogba goal in the first leg against Barcelona and then went on to score what was the winner in the Camp Nou in the second leg. England also didn't have a Drogba type player who can play upfront on his own and when given the ball can easily beat 2-3 defenders on his own and produce something out of nothing.

The thing is England did have players who could have filled the Ramires and Drogba role but this is where my only criticism of Hodgson lies. He could have gone with either Walcott or AOC from the start in every game who could play the Ramires type role (not as good in my opinion but good enough). And he could have also stuck with Carroll who looked sensational in the game before he was dropped to play the Drogba type role (again, nowhere near as good but can do the role very well).

After looking at the game again the problem was not with the defence yesterday but was with the midfield and forwards. The defence done their job, if they didn't it would not have ended 0-0 that's for sure. But when the ball hit the midfield/frontline they lost possession way too easily forcing Italy to start a new wave of attacks.

Both of us had criticisms of Hodgson, but I think its fair to give him leniency for the short about of time he had. But I will be looking for him to develop a system. For me that must be either a 4-2-3-1 with two holding players (ideally one more creative than the other) or a 4-1-2-2-1, because we are very very bad at defending the space between the defence and midfield without the midfield collapsing onto itself. I have no idea if Gerrard will continue, but it should not be in midfield.

 

[LFCMarshall]

I don't agree with the whole "luck" thing lol, luck is when the ball hits a beach ball and goes in or when your side is losing with not long to go and a bad fog sets in and the game is abandoned. It's a mixture of poor technique and decent defending in my eyes.

Technique yes, but I cant see how them missing with such clear chances is decent defending, its Luck IMO, Chelsea won the champions league while playing solid, had plenty of spirit and a huge amount of luck

9/10 Barca and Bayern do not miss that many chances, but they did
Also Italy wouldnt usually miss that amount of chances, but they did

Its okay to say 'its all about winning' but it was pretty awful watching England this Euro's..