Everton's Royston Drenthe says Lionel Messi repeatedly referred to him as 'negro

[fuelledbypassion]

You know as well as both I and Drenthe that saying something like this not only in public but in the printed press will inevitably lead to investigations. Frankly, if he'd lodged a complaint at the time I'd have a lot more respect for him, since that's the correct thing to do. Then, it goes through the proper channels and gets properly investigated. As a side note, this raises the not-inconsiderable question of why the **** he didn't complain about it in the first place.

He's not going to make it public at that time though is he, be realistic. He played for a club with players that were openly using the same language that Messi supposedly used, targetting their own players with it. If he'd have gone public back then, knowing that it was going on at his own club as well, it would have been very hypocritical. If he'd have spoken about Heinze and Higuain too, as he should have, he'd have been hated by Real's fans, his teammates, the entire club and it's staff. I can understand how it is difficult to stand up against it, especially in Spain where it appears to be a far greater problem.

I'm not going to say Messi did or didn't say it, and it shouldn't matter who the culprit or victim is, accusations like this should still be taken very seriously.

 

[sunilvk7]

Anyways I'm done with this as people are approaching with Drenthe's and Messi's reputation. It doesn't even have legs to get carried by any papers. I believe it was just a casual interview which he has every right to give, doesn't matter it is after 1 year or 10 years. He answers them when someone asks about it, which I believe happened in this interview.

Whether what he said was truth or lies is all together different matter, but people having a go for the timing of the interview is laughable as he answers them when asked about it.

Did Messi offend him? I dont know. But I haven't seen any black player acting as attention seeker by bringing racism into equation. So it is very harsh on Drenthe to be called as attention seeker as all he did was nothing but answer a question.

 

[GodCubed]

So you are saying Drenthe is a liar? as you said Drenthe is just looking for attention and nothing more.

Sigh, I very carefully stated that I personally think that it is more likely Drenthe is just looking for attention than the common footballer. If it had been someone else, then I'd be more inclined to believe them. I'm not saying Drenthe's a liar, I'm saying it's more likely that he is indeed lying.

I have said many times we have no idea what he was asked. If he was asked about some incident (Like incident when was with Hercules) then he might have said this casually about what happened on that day without having a go at Messi?

But why bring it up at all, if he's not willing to bring it up through official channels? Sniping at someone from afar where you don't have raised stakes of a formal investigation to deal with smacks to me of someone who isn't telling the truth. He might well become a target whether he reveals it in a formal complaint or in a magazine, so if he's telling the truth why not report it right away? If he's sure Messi said it, then he should be confident enough to report it. Unless, of course, he doesn't like the idea of being found out...

I have seen many people just letting go of many incidents but bring it up when someone asks about it in some interviews. I dont see it as attention seeking, I see it as they are not arsed with lodging official complain and live with all the **** that comes with it.

If he can't be arsed with an official complaint, then I fail to see how any facet of the alleged incident should be interesting in any way. If he didn't feel at the time that Messi should be charged for this, then why is he bringing it up now? Just because someone asked him an oblique question in an interview about his house, he feels he has to pour everything out into the open when he specifically KNOWS that this is sensitive and will get a lot of media exposure?

 

[Mike.]

He's not going to make it public at that time though is he, be realistic. He played for a club with players that were openly using the same language that Messi supposedly used, targetting their own players with it. If he'd have gone public back then, knowing that it was going on at his own club as well, it would have been very hypocritical. If he'd have spoken about Heinze and Higuain too, as he should have, he'd have been hated by Real's fans, his teammates, the entire club and it's staff. I can understand how it is difficult to stand up against it, especially in Spain where it appears to be a far greater problem.

I'm not going to say Messi did or didn't say it, and it shouldn't matter who the culprit or victim is, accusations like this should still be taken very seriously.

But then why wait a year, and then mention it totally out of context, at a point where he will find it much harder to prove his point. If he was that worried, why mention it now?

 

[sunilvk7]

He's not going to make it public at that time though is he, be realistic. He played for a club with players that were openly using the same language that Messi supposedly used, targetting their own players with it. If he'd have gone public back then, knowing that it was going on at his own club as well, it would have been very hypocritical. If he'd have spoken about Heinze and Higuain too, as he should have, he'd have been hated by Real's fans, his teammates, the entire club and it's staff. I can understand how it is difficult to stand up against it, especially in Spain where it appears to be a far greater problem.

I'm not going to say Messi did or didn't say it, and it shouldn't matter who the culprit or victim is, accusations like this should still be taken very seriously.

Drenthe said he understands Negro is commonly used in SA, but what he said was tone used by Messi (Which is not mentioned clearly in this translation).

Also very good point you made about teammates and about Madrid. Possibly a reason why he didn't mention it all as he was contracted to Madrid, but now I believe his contract with them is up?

 

[sunilvk7]

But then why wait a year, and then mention it totally out of context, at a point where he will find it much harder to prove his point. If he was that worried, why mention it now?

Probably he is not out there to prove anything? He just gave a casual answer?

 

[Mike.]

Probably he is not out there to prove anything? He just gave a casual answer?

Answering out of context is not a casual answer.

 

[GodCubed]

He's not going to make it public at that time though is he, be realistic. He played for a club with players that were openly using the same language that Messi supposedly used, targetting their own players with it. If he'd have gone public back then, knowing that it was going on at his own club as well, it would have been very hypocritical. If he'd have spoken about Heinze and Higuain too, as he should have, he'd have been hated by Real's fans, his teammates, the entire club and it's staff. I can understand how it is difficult to stand up against it, especially in Spain where it appears to be a far greater problem.

Still plays. He's contracted to Madrid, which sort of renders the whole 'oh but they're his teammates' argument invalid.

Anyways I'm done with this as people are approaching with Drenthe's and Messi's reputation. It doesn't even have legs to get carried by any papers. I believe it was just a casual interview which he has every right to give, doesn't matter it is after 1 year or 10 years. He answers them when someone asks about it, which I believe happened in this interview.

Oh, you believe that, do you? Yet you were the one earlier calling me out for assuming Drenthe was using it just to put Messi in trouble. You've got no more evidence to suggest that Drenthe was answering a specific racism/Messi-based question than I have to suggest that Drenthe managed to bring it up.

As you pointed out, this doesn't have the legs to be carried by many papers. As such, I'd suggest not using it as a source if you want to have a reasonable discussion about it.

Did Messi offend him? I dont know. But I haven't seen any black player acting as attention seeker by bringing racism into equation.

Yet. There's a first time for everything.

 

[fuelledbypassion]

But then why wait a year, and then mention it totally out of context, at a point where he will find it much harder to prove his point. If he was that worried, why mention it now?

Maybe he was just asked about his experiences of racism, and answered honestly knowing he had no loyalties/no one to protect?
Maybe he mentioned a number of players, but Messi's name was highlighted as he's the biggest name in football?
Maybe he wanted attention?
Maybe he dislikes Messi and wants to destroy his reputation?
Maybe he's not even bothered or accustomed to racism?
Maybe he doesn't even realise the seriousness of the incident?

I honestly don't know, it's all subjective guesswork really, no one knows Drenthe's mindset but him, which makes it difficult to validate his claims

 

[sunilvk7]

Sigh, I very carefully stated that I personally think that it is more likely Drenthe is just looking for attention than the common footballer. If it had been someone else, then I'd be more inclined to believe them. I'm not saying Drenthe's a liar, I'm saying it's more likely that he is indeed lying.

You personally think that, that is why i asked "Are you saying Drenthe is a liar" for which you anyways gave an answer. Not straight forward, just sugar coated it.

But why bring it up at all, if he's not willing to bring it up through official channels? Sniping at someone from afar where you don't have raised stakes of a formal investigation to deal with smacks to me of someone who isn't telling the truth. He might well become a target whether he reveals it in a formal complaint or in a magazine, so if he's telling the truth why not report it right away? If he's sure Messi said it, then he should be confident enough to report it. Unless, of course, he doesn't like the idea of being found out...

How many players have reported racial abuse previously? Why are you ignoring what Roberts said? Black players were afraid to report it. And in Spain it is even horrible. Drenthe knows calling Negro is common, he was just complaining about tone. How do you prove the tone used in the conversation? Just because he didn't complain doesn't mean he has no right to talk about it.

If he can't be arsed with an official complaint, then I fail to see how any facet of the alleged incident should be interesting in any way. If he didn't feel at the time that Messi should be charged for this, then why is he bringing it up now? Just because someone asked him an oblique question in an interview about his house, he feels he has to pour everything out into the open when he specifically KNOWS that this is sensitive and will get a lot of media exposure?

Even now he is not reporting, proving anything. Just a casual answer about what happened. Why shouldn't he when he was asked? And lets face it, just because it was about his house doesn't mean he was not asked about on the field incidents. It is not just that "Tell me about your house" question, isn't it. Till we see full transcript we are in no state to tell why he said it .

 

[sunilvk7]

Answering out of context is not a casual answer.

You know what he was asked to say answer was out of context?

 

[sunilvk7]

Oh, you believe that, do you? Yet you were the one earlier calling me out for assuming Drenthe was using it just to put Messi in trouble. You've got no more evidence to suggest that Drenthe was answering a specific racism/Messi-based question than I have to suggest that Drenthe managed to bring it up.

He would look like an idiot by talking about Messi without bring asked about it. My assumption maybe wrong, so maybe yours which you have taken far too long saying he is attention seeker, liar, and what not.

As you pointed out, this doesn't have the legs to be carried by many papers. As such, I'd suggest not using it as a source if you want to have a reasonable discussion about it.

This doesn't have legs doesn't mean it didn't happen. And yet you are using this as a source to call Drenthe as so and so.

Yet. There's a first time for everything.

Like how Messi started racially abusing too?

 

[sunilvk7]

Maybe he was just asked about his experiences of racism, and answered honestly knowing he had no loyalties/no one to protect?
Maybe he mentioned a number of players, but Messi's name was highlighted as he's the biggest name in football?
Maybe he wanted attention?
Maybe he dislikes Messi and wants to destroy his reputation?
Maybe he's not even bothered or accustomed to racism?
Maybe he doesn't even realise the seriousness of the incident?

I honestly don't know, it's all subjective guesswork really, no one knows Drenthe's mindset but him, which makes it difficult to validate his claims

This answers almost everything. All guess work and no one has a clue about why he mentioned that.

 

[GodCubed]

You personally think that, that is why i asked "Are you saying Drenthe is a liar" for which you anyways gave an answer. Not straight forward, just sugar coated it.

Bullshit. Don't you tell me what I do or do not think. There is such a thing as a shade of grey, you know, you are allowed to think something other than just true or false. Frankly, I just don't know, but as I said, I think it's more likely Drenthe's lying than the majority of footballers.

How many players have reported racial abuse previously? Why are you ignoring what Roberts said? Black players were afraid to report it. And in Spain it is even horrible. Drenthe knows calling Negro is common, he was just complaining about tone. How do you prove the tone used in the conversation? Just because he didn't complain doesn't mean he has no right to talk about it.

I'd argue I'm not only taking into account what Roberts said, I'm upholding it. Roberts called for tougher regulations, but they can't be implemented without honesty from the abused players. Give the Spanish authorities a chance to prove they're tough on racism.

If Drenthe knows that the word negro is common and doesn't blame Messi for it, this is no longer a debate about racism. This is a debate about personal talk. As such, I'd argue this is a pretty ridiculous argument by Drenthe; basically what he is saying is that 'Lionel acted mean towards me but I have no way of proving this and it's his word against mine'. In court, that'd be thrown out, and rightly too.

Even now he is not reporting, proving anything. Just a casual answer about what happened. Why shouldn't he when he was asked? And lets face it, just because it was about his house doesn't mean he was not asked about on the field incidents. It is not just that "Tell me about your house" question, isn't it. Till we see full transcript we are in no state to tell why he said it .

Exactly the point I made. How do you know this is a casual answer to what happened? He might not have been asked at all. He could've been asked about something only vaguely referential. You're assuming here, yet also had the gall to call me out on the same thing. You can't just do that and then assume when it suits you.

 

[GodCubed]

He would look like an idiot by talking about Messi without bring asked about it. My assumption maybe wrong, so maybe yours which you have taken far too long saying he is attention seeker, liar, and what not.

He would look like an idiot for throwing a strop after being left out of one match. He would also look like an idiot for threatening to take his club to court when they refused to let him go from a contract he signed and still had time to run. He would also look like an idiot for turning up a week late for training, and then changing his story as to why he did so twice. This is a man used to looking like an idiot.

My suspicions (not assumptions, in this case) may be wrong, but they're supported by fact and I have a reason for them.

This doesn't have legs doesn't mean it didn't happen. And yet you are using this as a source to call Drenthe as so and so.

No, I'm using well-documented fact to say that Drenthe has behavioural issues. I'm using this well-documented fact to suggest a counter argument. This isn't rocket science.

Like how Messi started racially abusing too?

Precisely. If you'd taken any notice at all, you'd have noticed I haven't ruled that out in the slightest. I have merely played Devil's Advocate to Drenthe's shaky story.

 

[sunilvk7]

I'd argue I'm not only taking into account what Roberts said, I'm upholding it. Roberts called for tougher regulations, but they can't be implemented without honesty from the abused players. Give the Spanish authorities a chance to prove they're tough on racism.

If Drenthe knows that the word negro is common and doesn't blame Messi for it, this is no longer a debate about racism. This is a debate about personal talk. As such, I'd argue this is a pretty ridiculous argument by Drenthe; basically what he is saying is that 'Lionel acted mean towards me but I have no way of proving this and it's his word against mine'. In court, that'd be thrown out, and rightly too.

I have said many times, Drenthe was talking about the tone used by Messi when mentioning Negro. Very same reason why he didn't report? It can be friendly and offensive team which was covered in the other racism incident. Not saying Messi is racist or anything near that, but Drenthe's point was completely different.

Exactly the point I made. How do you know this is a casual answer to what happened? He might not have been asked at all. He could've been asked about something only vaguely referential. You're assuming here, yet also had the gall to call me out on the same thing. You can't just do that and then assume when it suits you.

Just like you made 100s of assumptions, I have too and if I'm not wrong I mentioned it saying "Might" "Probably".

No I'm not calling you out on anything, just that you are making assumptions to ridicule Drenthe, and I'm doing it to see what might have happened.

I have said many times that there is no concrete proof to why he mentioned that. You lot just jumped on his back saying attention seeker, for which I said it might be that he was asked about it.

Fulledbypassion summed it up perfectly. There is nothing in that interview to suggest why he said that. So I can't see how anyone can call him attention seeker.

 

[sunilvk7]

He would look like an idiot for throwing a strop after being left out of one match. He would also look like an idiot for threatening to take his club to court when they refused to let him go from a contract he signed and still had time to run. He would also look like an idiot for turning up a week late for training, and then changing his story as to why he did so twice. This is a man used to looking like an idiot.

He might be an idiot that doesn't mean he was wrong again. Just like how Giggs was believed to be saint and was ******** his brother's wife. I just dont go with reputation alone. He might be an idiot, but for all we know he was very honest in this interview.

Precisely. If you'd taken any notice at all, you'd have noticed I haven't ruled that out in the slightest. I have merely played Devil's Advocate to Drenthe's shaky story.

Well thats it. We are doing samething at opposite ends. Defending without substance and by assumption.

 

[JDY]

Lol at some of these replies here, sound like domineering mothers.

Anyway, bizarre timing for Drenthe to bring this up. I would only guess that the reporter was talking about the recent cases in the PL and Drenthe brought up some of his previous experiences.

 

[GodCubed]

I have said many times, Drenthe was talking about the tone used by Messi when mentioning Negro. Very same reason why he didn't report? It can be friendly and offensive team which was covered in the other racism incident. Not saying Messi is racist or anything near that, but Drenthe's point was completely different.

So you agree that this argument isn't about racism, then. Which, as I said, turns it completely into a game of Drenthe's word against Messi's, when Drenthe's word is undermined by him being unwilling to broach the subject when he could actually attempt to do some good.

Just like you made 100s of assumptions, I have too and if I'm not wrong I mentioned it saying "Might" "Probably".

I made one assumption, based on fact. You, on the other hand, assumed that from the start we would all protect Messi, you assumed that 'he [was] not asking Messi to be punished', you assumed he 'just gave an interview in which they asked about a few incidents', you assumed 'He didn't bring this long time back for the same reason Roberts said in his interview' and not because he might well be, in fact, lying. Just a few examples.

No I'm not calling you out on anything, just that you are making assumptions to ridicule Drenthe, and I'm doing it to see what might have happened.

I'm not ridiculing Drenthe. Sodding look it up: every accusation I've levelled against Drenthe is 100% true.

Fulledbypassion summed it up perfectly. There is nothing in that interview to suggest why he said that. So I can't see how anyone can call him attention seeker.

For the last time, I am not calling him an attention seeker. I'm saying it is more likely that he is than your average footballer. There is a difference.

Well thats it. We are doing samething at opposite ends. Defending without substance and by assumption.

No, no, see, that isn't how it works. All I did was base a counter-argument on fact. You seem to have taken this as some kind of personal crusade against Lionel Messi. I'm not sure about your motives for this - though I have an inkling - but you seem determined to try and tarnish his reputation. The onus in an argument is on the one putting forth the argument to prove it is justified, not the other way round.

 

[Mike.]

In before Dunc closes it!