Few basic tactic creation suggestions (for newbies)

[WJ]

Never said he goes rogue, the role just becomes irrelevant, it's just not enhanced due to the fluid system.

A playmaker will still be one. So will an Anchor Man. So will a Poacher and everyone else. It's hardly irrelevant.

 

[miguelalves]

A playmaker will still be one. So will an Anchor Man. So will a Poacher and everyone else. It's hardly irrelevant.

Not so irrelevant. If it were then it wouldn't matter using several specialist roles in a very fluid system.

 

[Mike.]

Never said he goes rogue, the role just becomes irrelevant, it's just not enhanced due to the fluid system.

The role doesn't become irrelevant at all.

 

[WJ]

If it were then it wouldn't matter using several specialist roles in a very fluid system.

As I said, you can.

 

[miguelalves]

The role doesn't become irrelevant at all.

However, (...), the more fluid your team shape is, the more responsibilities are shared and less players will adhere to their instructions, and so the less important the assignment of roles becomes.

 

[WJ]

However, (...), the more fluid your team shape is, the more responsibilities are shared and less players will adhere to their instructions, and so the less important the assignment of roles becomes.

Okay, technically, roles are less important in the more fluid systems. Here's the important bit: it's still very important. Players will still play according to their roles in any fluidity.

 

[miguelalves]

Okay, technically, roles are less important in the more fluid systems. Here's the important bit: it's still very important. Players will still play according to their roles in any fluidity.

Are you sure ? Because in another thread you wrote this:

You need to decide how you want to play and create a tactic based on that. If you're going to use that many playmakers and other specialists, you're probably better of going with a highly sructured approach so everyone sticks to the role you've selected.

So, which is it ? Players still play according to their roles in any fluidity ? or it's better going with a highly structured for them to stick to the roles ?

 

[Igneos79]

I didn't think of this thread as amusing, until now

 

[WJ]

Are you sure ? Because in another thread you wrote this:

You need to decide how you want to play and create a tactic based on that. If you're going to use that many playmakers and other specialists, you're probably better of going with a highly sructured approach so everyone sticks to the role you've selected.

So, which is it ? Players still play according to their roles in any fluidity ? or it's better going with a highly structured for them to stick to the roles ?

Well what's wrong with what I said? Highly structured would limit creative freedom for everyone except the playmakers (and I think he had a False Nine) so that they can work their magic. If you go Very Fluid, he might have a David Luiz in his team who would try 60 yard through balls over the top, despite not having the attributes to do it well enough and bypassing the playmakers (you know, the talented guys relied upon to make plays themselves) completely.

 

[callamity]

I didn't think of this thread as amusing, until now

It's actually brought about a stimulated discussion. So long as this continues to be civil I think some people will learn form it.

To add to the discussion

No matter what team shape chosen, whether you choose highly structured or very fluid, player roles and duties are possibly the most important choice you can make and will always be relevant. You still need to have a balanced team and not just random roles assigned anywhere. What does change is that as your team becomes more fluid the team is expected to contribute to more phases of play, thus causing more specialized roles to become redundant.

I want to link to a post by the hand of god, whilst not directly about fluidity explains a bit

How to choose the correct fluidity ?

 

[Beageley]

Feisty this thread got. I don't think anybody's wrong here. I normally create a tactic or should I say try to create a tactic to suit my players, so what works for one team might not work for another. Just saying

 

[Igneos79]

Feisty this thread got. I don't think anybody's wrong here. I normally create a tactic or should I say try to create a tactic to suit my players, so what works for one team might not work for another. Just saying

There seems to be a general lack of screenshots of perfect seasons, I agree

 

[miguelalves]

Feisty this thread got. I don't think anybody's wrong here. I normally create a tactic or should I say try to create a tactic to suit my players, so what works for one team might not work for another. Just saying

absolutely, there's no such thing like magic tactics

 

[miguelalves]

Well what's wrong with what I said? Highly structured would limit creative freedom for everyone except the playmakers (and I think he had a False Nine) so that they can work their magic. If you go Very Fluid, he might have a David Luiz in his team who would try 60 yard through balls over the top, despite not having the attributes to do it well enough and bypassing the playmakers (you know, the talented guys relied upon to make plays themselves) completely.

Well, when you make a statement in one thread that playing structured is better for players sticking to their roles and in another thread you say something like players will stick to their role no matter the fluidity, there's obviously something wrong... with you. But hey, you don't see the contradiction of your own statements that's fine although it's kind of obvious. Well done.

 

[WJ]

Well, when you make a statement in one thread that playing structured is better for players sticking to their roles and in another thread you say something like players will stick to their role no matter the fluidity, there's obviously something wrong... with you. But hey, you don't see the contradiction of your own statements that's fine although it's kind of obvious. Well done.

Don't be an idiot again, please. It's been fairly civil, up to now. Read this thread. Players will do as they're instructed in all fluidities. The more fluid you go, the more you give them licence to do something outside of the instructions - as per my example of the centreback launchinh a 60 yard through ball over the top. They'll still follow your instructions most of the time though. I had to read the linked thread and it's saying exactly what I am. All they're adding are the phases of play, which I am basically ignoring.

 

[wkdsoul]

First time one of these was worth reading... some great links to guides in these as well, id not seen. cheers Callamity

 

[miguelalves]

Don't be an idiot again, please. It's been fairly civil, up to now. Read this thread. Players will do as they're instructed in all fluidities. The more fluid you go, the more you give them licence to do something outside of the instructions - as per my example of the centreback launchinh a 60 yard through ball over the top. They'll still follow your instructions most of the time though. I had to read the linked thread and it's saying exactly what I am. All they're adding are the phases of play, which I am basically ignoring.

When people start to have a need to insult others to make their point, they do not have a point at all. Both statements I posted are yours, each statement contradicts the other: 1) player stick to his role no matter the fluidity; 2) Better use more structured fluidity to make the player stick to his role. Yeah, and I'm the idiot lol.

The Guide to Football Manager itself sustains my point, but I guess the Guide or who ever wrote it must also be idiots.

 

[WJ]

When people start to have a need to insult others to make their point, they do not have a point at all. Both statements I posted are yours, each statement contradicts the other: 1) player stick to his role no matter the fluidity; 2) Better use more structured fluidity to make the player stick to his role. Yeah, and I'm the idiot lol.

The Guide to Football Manager itself sustains my point, but I guess the Guide or who ever wrote it must also be idiots.

I'm going to make it a point not to respond to you again. You started with the ****** digs.

Nothing contradicts anything. Players DO follow their role (instructions) in all the fluidities. In the more structured setups, they don't have any freedom to do anything other than what they've been instructed, at all.

Your point was that choosing roles becomes irrelevant in fluid systems and both Mike and I told you that's not the case. Guide To Football manager says the same thing as us - you'll have less control in fluid systems (with the higher CF) but that doesn't mean players won't play according to their instructions. It's basically a flair boost, so they'll still do most of what you instructed. Do you want to give everyone (not just specific roles) some creative licence to do something "special"? More fluid. No? More Structured.

It really is that simple. If you can't grasp that, I don't care.

 

[miguelalves]

I'm going to make it a point not to respond to you again. You started with the ****** digs.

Nothing contradicts anything. Players DO follow their role (instructions) in all the fluidities. In the more structured setups, they don't have any freedom to do anything other than what they've been instructed, at all.

Your point was that choosing roles becomes irrelevant in fluid systems and both Mike and I told you that's not the case. Guide To Football manager says the same thing as us - you'll have less control in fluid systems (with the higher CF) but that doesn't mean players won't play according to their instructions. It's basically a flair boost, so they'll still do most of what you instructed. Do you want to give everyone (not just specific roles) some creative licence to do something "special"? More fluid. No? More Structured.

It really is that simple. If you can't grasp that, I don't care.

You'd better not respond because when you are not making contradictions, you are putting words in my hand that I never wrote. A quite known and still low strategy. As for the bold part, for once you quoted something correct: The Guide to Football Manager states what I posted before, I quoted and put it here. Want to behave like a 5 old, fine, it suits you.

 

[Mike.]

However, (...), the more fluid your team shape is, the more responsibilities are shared and less players will adhere to their instructions, and so the less important the assignment of roles becomes.

There is a clear and concise difference between less important and irrelevant.