FM16 - Youth Management Petition

[Savagenchez]

After Miles flat-out rejected any idea of youth management ever being on Football Manager, a few guys from Twitter have decided to post a petition to see if there is genuine interest in this feature. I'm personally for it, it adds further depth and far more realism to the game so if this is something that would interest you, then please sign the petition yourself and raise awareness. Thank you!

https://www.change.org/p/sports-int...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

 

[WJ]

Say/think of Miles what you want, but he's right. It'd be boring as ****.

 

[TouchyFM]

Say/think of Miles what you want, but he's right. It'd be boring as ****.

It's obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but even if it was just an optional thing you select before you start up a game, you can't deny it's not unrealistic.

 

[WJ]

It's obviously not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but even if it was just an optional thing you select before you start up a game, you can't deny it's not unrealistic.

Yeah, but it's pointless devoting valuable development time to a feature that will not be used often or at all. It's wasted time/money to do that.

Also, it's easy to say it's just optional, isn't it? For those (who will be the majority) who won't be using it, it'll be features that the majority DO use that'll get fewer improvements because time was spent on this.

 

[WJ]

There's very little thought that went into this 'idea'. It'd need to be enough fun from a gameplay perspective to make it worthwhile adding, as currently a lot of people wouldn't use it. The clever thing to do would be to come up with ideas that'll make this a more attractive feature. Instead, it's a short, nothing post that just asks for it to be added and predictably it got shot down. This petition will not make any difference at all.

 

[dllu]

predictably it got shot down.

I don't think negative comments from one person - you - classifies as "shooting down".

I do agree that the idea needs to be fleshed out much more, but I don't see what is so inherently boring and hopeless about it. I for one am intrigued...

 

[WJ]

I don't think negative comments from one person - you - classifies as "shutting down".

I do agree that the idea needs to be fleshed out much more, but I don't see what is so inherently boring and hopeless about it. I for one am intrigued...

It got shot down by the one making the decision for features that go into FM - Miles Jacobson (and his team at SI). They've already discussed it and based on their market research, the stats they have and their own feature meetings, it got shot down for being a boring addition and one that would not be used much at all.

 

[Savagenchez]

The reasons why I want it (you have the entire right to disagree, but I would love this):

- Building relationships with young players who you could then sign easier on later in their career and interact with them more (e.g. ask them to consider their retirement and join you for a while - this is already in the game)

- Caretaker management. Say your manager has just been sacked, the club can't find a right option and you step in. You've got 5 games, regular meetings with the board to discuss the situation; you go on to win all 5 games. The board take a gamble and bring you in on a short-term deal until the end of the year, you go on to impress and guide the team to all of their targets. The board offer you a longer-term deal and your first "proper" job in management. Overall, making the possibilities in your managerial career different and more diverse. This is especially interesting to me as I interact with many people daily both on Twitter/YouTube discussing FM saves.

- Realism. Don't get me wrong, not every manager has started out at Welling's U18 side, but there have been countless top-class managers that have had their first opportunity at a youth side and taken it excellently. I want to replicate this on Football Manager and be rewarded for it.

- Coaching badges. Maybe a bit more of a niche here, but it'd make a bit more sense for my manager to be earning his first couple of coaching badges whilst managing a youth side without a huge consequence towards the club as a whole.

- Manager attributes. As it stands, your "working with youngsters" attribute hardly increases. It's annoying when starting off with no badges/experience. If you were a youth manager and succeeded, I'd expect this attribute to increase and it'd give you a far more accurate representation of your managerial skills in-game.

As this is a balanced argument, I'll mention cons towards this idea:

- Dev time. This would probably take a bit of work to get in to the game, I still feel as if it's worth it, but if this idea isn't for everybody then I can see why SI would want to focus on other features.

- SI's general support of the idea. They're not behind it. They never have been. With this said, it's unlikely that they'd devote their very best work in to ensuring this feature would remain majorly bug-free and functioning.

If I've forgot anything, both positive or negative then please let me know. I enjoy discussing this, as a whole I think it's a great idea and I would love to see why others think differently. I don't want an argument with anybody, just a discussion about a topic that I'm interested in. Thank you for reading.

 

[WJ]

The reasons why I want it (you have the entire right to disagree, but I would love this):

- Building relationships with young players who you could then sign easier on later in their career and interact with them more (e.g. ask them to consider their retirement and join you for a while - this is already in the game)

- Caretaker management. Say your manager has just been sacked, the club can't find a right option and you step in. You've got 5 games, regular meetings with the board to discuss the situation; you go on to win all 5 games. The board take a gamble and bring you in on a short-term deal until the end of the year, you go on to impress and guide the team to all of their targets. The board offer you a longer-term deal and your first "proper" job in management. Overall, making the possibilities in your managerial career different and more diverse. This is especially interesting to me as I interact with many people daily both on Twitter/YouTube discussing FM saves.

- Realism. Don't get me wrong, not every manager has started out at Welling's U18 side, but there have been countless top-class managers that have had their first opportunity at a youth side and taken it excellently. I want to replicate this on Football Manager and be rewarded for it.

- Coaching badges. Maybe a bit more of a niche here, but it'd make a bit more sense for my manager to be earning his first couple of coaching badges whilst managing a youth side without a huge consequence towards the club as a whole.

- Manager attributes. As it stands, your "working with youngsters" attribute hardly increases. It's annoying when starting off with no badges/experience. If you were a youth manager and succeeded, I'd expect this attribute to increase and it'd give you a far more accurate representation of your managerial skills in-game.

As this is a balanced argument, I'll mention cons towards this idea:

- Dev time. This would probably take a bit of work to get in to the game, I still feel as if it's worth it, but if this idea isn't for everybody then I can see why SI would want to focus on other features.

- SI's general support of the idea. They're not behind it. They never have been. With this said, it's unlikely that they'd devote their very best work in to ensuring this feature would remain majorly bug-free and functioning.

If I've forgot anything, both positive or negative then please let me know. I enjoy discussing this, as a whole I think it's a great idea and I would love to see why others think differently. I don't want an argument with anybody, just a discussion about a topic that I'm interested in. Thank you for reading.

Still means very, very, very little.

It's still boring. Which feature out of those you listed, would be in any way fun, from a gameplay perspective? Most of what you listed would be used once or twice in your career or would change behind the scenes. Still boring.

IMO, there's little point in discussing it at all, unless there are actual fun additions to be made to this mode. You won't be in control of transfers. You won't be in control of who's in your squad. You probably won't have control over contracts. You'll pick a tactic and starting 11 over and over.

 

[Savagenchez]

Still means very, very, very little.

It's still boring. Which feature out of those you listed, would be in any way fun, from a gameplay perspective? Most of what you listed would be used once or twice in your career or would change behind the scenes. Still boring.

IMO, there's little point in discussing it at all, unless there are actual fun additions to be made to this mode. You won't be in control of transfers. You won't be in control of who's in your squad. You probably won't have control over contracts. You'll pick a tactic and starting 11 over and over.

I for one wouldn't find that horrid at all. If you got bored, you could quite easily move along to another youth side and ply your trade again. FM is endless, there's no hurry in your career to become the best. I personally love the managerial story, it makes the game immersive for me. This idea won't be for everyone, not every idea is, but I wanted to gauge interest. You're clearly not for the idea, which is fine. I don't want an argument with you, but your opinion isn't solid and final so I'd appreciate if you didn't claim that the post was "shot down" purely on your opinion. If it's not something you want, then don't sign it and don't spread it.

I'd find this interesting, I've always loved youth management on FM and this would help me even more in learning exactly what the best thing to do is for each individual youngster. I'm sorry if this came across harsh, it wasn't my intention.

 

[WJ]

I for one wouldn't find that horrid at all. If you got bored, you could quite easily move along to another youth side and ply your trade again. FM is endless, there's no hurry in your career to become the best. I personally love the managerial story, it makes the game immersive for me. This idea won't be for everyone, not every idea is, but I wanted to gauge interest. You're clearly not for the idea, which is fine. I don't want an argument with you, but your opinion isn't solid and final so I'd appreciate if you didn't claim that the post was "shot down" purely on your opinion. If it's not something you want, then don't sign it and don't spread it.

I'd find this interesting, I've always loved youth management on FM and this would help me even more in learning exactly what the best thing to do is for each individual youngster. I'm sorry if this came across harsh, it wasn't my intention.

It was shot down by Miles and SI themselves and again when you all suggested it on twitter. I'm only shooting it down now, so I can't possibly take all the credit.

The point is, it's not a feature that 'won't be for everyone'. This will be 'for almost no one'. You get to pick a tactic and then just starting 11s. That's boring no matter how you spin it.

Also, I'm not going to sign it, because it's a lazy petition and because it won't matter whether you have 100 or 5000 people signing it - it's not going in. Before I'm accused again, that's Miles' words, not mine. That's why I suggested actually listing worthwhile additions.

 

[Savagenchez]

It was shot down by Miles and SI themselves and again when you all suggested it on twitter. I'm only shooting it down now, so I can't possibly take all the credit.

The point is, it's not a feature that 'won't be for everyone'. This will be 'for almost no one'. You get to pick a tactic and then just starting 11s. That's boring no matter how you spin it.

You've said that the feature is for "almost no one" and that's exactly the point of a petition. It's to see who would want it, if it turns out that people really do not want it then I'd of course not request it again, no matter how much I want it. It's just to gauge opinion on what people think, if you don't agree with it then that's entirely your own prerogative but there's no harm to anyone in just giving your thoughts on a feature. I've told people on twitter to stop being pathetic, my intention isn't to have any abuse heading Miles' way.

 

[WJ]

You've said that the feature is for "almost no one" and that's exactly the point of a petition. It's to see who would want it, if it turns out that people really do not want it then I'd of course not request it again, no matter how much I want it. It's just to gauge opinion on what people think, if you don't agree with it then that's entirely your own prerogative but there's no harm to anyone in just giving your thoughts on a feature. I've told people on twitter to stop being pathetic, my intention isn't to have any abuse heading Miles' way.

What does it matter how many people bother to sign it? It will not have any effect. It won't ever make it into the game as it is currently, because it's boring.

 

[Savagenchez]

What does it matter how many people bother to sign it? It will not have any effect. It won't ever make it into the game as it is currently, because it's boring.

And again, that's your opinion. I wouldn't find it boring, neither would the people that have signed it. We're allowed an opinion as are you, so don't shoot it down thinking that you're inherently correct.

 

[WJ]

You've said that the feature is for "almost no one" and that's exactly the point of a petition.

And again, that's your opinion. I wouldn't find it boring, neither would the people that have signed it. We're allowed an opinion as are you, so don't shoot it down thinking that you're inherently correct.

What I hinted at as well earlier, is that SI do have stats for how many people play their different modes and they have a decent idea of how many actually manage youth/reserve teams now. Almost no one does. It's not a worthwhile idea.

You have the option of making it worthwhile with worthwhile feature ideas, instead of antagonising Miles on Twitter.

 

[Savagenchez]

What I hinted at as well earlier, is that SI do have stats for how many people play their different modes and they have a decent idea of how many actually manage youth/reserve teams now. Almost no one does. It's not a worthwhile idea.

You have the option of making it worthwhile with worthwhile feature ideas, instead of antagonising Miles on Twitter.

Nobody plays it because it doesn't do any of the things that I've mentioned. Can you not see that? It doesn't give you a chance at another job, it doesn't help you work your way up, it doesn't say that you're the U18/21 manager, you can't do caretaker management, your attributes don't increase, it doesn't help build relationships with these players. I thought that you'd understand that, but clearly not.

 

[WJ]

Nobody plays it because it doesn't do any of the things that I've mentioned. Can you not see that? It doesn't give you a chance at another job, it doesn't help you work your way up, it doesn't say that you're the U18/21 manager, you can't do caretaker management, your attributes don't increase, it doesn't help build relationships with these players. I thought that you'd understand that, but clearly not.

Sit and actually think about what there would be to do DAY TO DAY as a youth manager. Think about it.





Nothing? Exactly. You will only pick a squad for a game. At some clubs, you won't even be able to use your own tactics, so there's little to do to 'work your way up' anything.

 

[Savagenchez]

Sit and actually think about what there would be to do DAY TO DAY as a youth manager. Think about it.




Nothing? Exactly. You will only pick a squad for a game. At some clubs, you won't even be able to use your own tactics, so there's little to do to 'work your way up' anything.

I didn't create this petition, I'm simply giving my reasoning for it. If you're too ignorant to accept that people want this, then again, that's your prerogative. I was doing my part to spread awareness, so I'm not going to argue with you. You haven't won anything, but if you want to believe that you have, then go ahead. I would enjoy doing this, it'd even give a break from the pressure of normal club management if that's what you wanted. For example, not everybody wants to just make transfers every year. They wouldn't need to. They'd have a brand new batch of players every single year through the intake regardless. There's no convincing you, as you don't accept the appeal. Which is entirely fine, and full credit to you, but just don't act like you're the opinion of everybody. Let people believe what they want to believe, I've given reasons as to why things will be interesting, you've just flat-out said no to it. Day to day on FM I holiday between my matches regardless as my laptop is incredibly slow, I don't find the press conferences interesting at all. The youth intake is one of my favourite moments of the season and it'd be even better if I was using these players instantly to propel me to a better league/cup finish. I'm sorry that this idea wasn't for you, but it is for me and it is for others. Cheers.

 

[WJ]

I didn't create this petition, I'm simply giving my reasoning for it. If you're too ignorant to accept that people want this, then again, that's your prerogative. I was doing my part to spread awareness, so I'm not going to argue with you. You haven't won anything, but if you want to believe that you have, then go ahead. I would enjoy doing this, it'd even give a break from the pressure of normal club management if that's what you wanted. For example, not everybody wants to just make transfers every year. They wouldn't need to. They'd have a brand new batch of players every single year through the intake regardless. There's no convincing you, as you don't accept the appeal. Which is entirely fine, and full credit to you, but just don't act like you're the opinion of everybody. Let people believe what they want to believe, I've given reasons as to why things will be interesting, you've just flat-out said no to it. Day to day on FM I holiday between my matches regardless as my laptop is incredibly slow, I don't find the press conferences interesting at all. The youth intake is one of my favourite moments of the season and it'd be even better if I was using these players instantly to propel me to a better league/cup finish. I'm sorry that this idea wasn't for you, but it is for me and it is for others. Cheers.

And what if that new batch of players keep on being ****, because the manager/chairman can't set up a proper HoYD or a youth system? More boringness, with players you don't want. It's also a once a season 'feature', so hardly worthwhile and also something that exists currently. You can't do transfers or contracts either.

It's immature to call me ignorant just because I don't agree with your 'idea'. I actually tried to offer advice, by telling you to rather come up with worthwhile ideas for it to gain ground as a proper feature. I've said what I needed to.

 

[L0n3]

I would love to see this feature but if they said no then I don't think a petition would make them change their mind. Maybe if we stop buying the game that has an updated database and only a hand full of improvements every year then they might consider listening.

The way I see it is do it as realistic as possible or don't even bother. Better spend their time and resources on creating a better match engine or fix bugs.
I could list a couple of things regarding this new feature but seeing that the "majority" of people already said that it won't be fun to play then I guess I'm in minority and i'll hold my tongue.

Later edit: I'm on LLM at the moment starting with no badges and no experience. I loaded a up to ninth English league. I'm in december 2017 and I just took the Blackpool post in league 2 and I got up to Continental C qualifications . Although both of my teams that I've coached before consisted mostly in youngsters, that i've played in the first team guess what my "working with youngsters " is ?

A big fat "1" .