teo.paranoid
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is it possible to change the 2 wingers to inside forwards or winger roles? will it work?
GUARDIOLA'S MANCHESTER CITY
- Thread starter Kyanite
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Hello Kyanite, i watched the full video and i especially enjoyed the analysis with reference to the full backs for certain opposition. i agree with this, specifically in the away games it seems that man city have much less goals per game.
i myself have created my own tactic. its quite similar but i have an inverted full back on the left and have a left winger who has to hug the wing. the only other difference is the box to box but i understand your logic. i have found that as Mendy is injured and Delph moves to central midfield alot that Sane provides total width on that flank whereas on the right sterling has more licence to roam inside often finding himself in the "CAM" position and KDB moves into the right wing area (i assume due to his crossing ability) and walker also provides some width down that flank.
great to see someone else's interpretation though in the match engine
i myself have created my own tactic. its quite similar but i have an inverted full back on the left and have a left winger who has to hug the wing. the only other difference is the box to box but i understand your logic. i have found that as Mendy is injured and Delph moves to central midfield alot that Sane provides total width on that flank whereas on the right sterling has more licence to roam inside often finding himself in the "CAM" position and KDB moves into the right wing area (i assume due to his crossing ability) and walker also provides some width down that flank.
great to see someone else's interpretation though in the match engine
Really impressed with this tactic so far although, I've only finished my pre-season with Manchester United. Great going forward and bundles of possession play making this a must have tactic for possession maniacs such as myself. Made a couple of tweaks to the tactic but left the majority of the philosophy intact.
Changed the role of the left Ramdeuter to an inside forward on support and almost immediately, the IF's ratings and the team's general possession play has improved with my Ramdeuter on the right scoring for fun and taking up far more dangerous positions now.
Changed also the DLFA to a Target Man A and Lukaku has been doing extremely well in this role, holding up the ball, winning flick ons from crosses to lay off to the widemen.
Changed the left FB(S) to a WBA and changed the right FBA to a FB(S). Far more penetration on the left flank now since my IF on the left cuts inside and slightly more defensively stable now since my right full back covers for the advanced positions that the Ramdeuter takes up.
Switched the role of the left AP A to AP(S) so that he takes up a deeper role and gets more involved in possession play much like Iniesta would have in the Guardiola's Barcelona days.
Removed longshots from the Box2Box since he already attempts longshots from a distance on a normal basis.
Added shoot less often to the central striker so that he looks for more possession play as opposed to shooting from a distance.
Changed the right CB to BPD (C) so that it emulates a little bit more of Guardiola's typical fancy ball playing defenders such as Pique, Stones and Hummels.
Sold 5 players from my first team squad, the likes of Smalling, Mata, Ashley Young, Fellaini and Daley Blind.
Brought in Alex Sandro, Arthur and Verratti. Am a firm believer in PPMs and as a result i knew that Verratti would be a must buy because of his 'look for pass rather than attempting to score'. Looking to play him next to Pogba with Pogba as a BBM.
Drawn out my shortlist for my next season already and will be looking to bring in Griezmann for Mkhitaryan, Jorginho for Carrick, Benjamin Henrichs for Valencia, Dybala for Lukaku, Luan for Zlatan, Rugani for Rojo.
Will post screenshots of my team's league position and the look of the current tactic once I'm halfway through testing it. Just beat Bayern 5-1 in a friendly as I was posting this.
Changed the role of the left Ramdeuter to an inside forward on support and almost immediately, the IF's ratings and the team's general possession play has improved with my Ramdeuter on the right scoring for fun and taking up far more dangerous positions now.
Changed also the DLFA to a Target Man A and Lukaku has been doing extremely well in this role, holding up the ball, winning flick ons from crosses to lay off to the widemen.
Changed the left FB(S) to a WBA and changed the right FBA to a FB(S). Far more penetration on the left flank now since my IF on the left cuts inside and slightly more defensively stable now since my right full back covers for the advanced positions that the Ramdeuter takes up.
Switched the role of the left AP A to AP(S) so that he takes up a deeper role and gets more involved in possession play much like Iniesta would have in the Guardiola's Barcelona days.
Removed longshots from the Box2Box since he already attempts longshots from a distance on a normal basis.
Added shoot less often to the central striker so that he looks for more possession play as opposed to shooting from a distance.
Changed the right CB to BPD (C) so that it emulates a little bit more of Guardiola's typical fancy ball playing defenders such as Pique, Stones and Hummels.
Sold 5 players from my first team squad, the likes of Smalling, Mata, Ashley Young, Fellaini and Daley Blind.
Brought in Alex Sandro, Arthur and Verratti. Am a firm believer in PPMs and as a result i knew that Verratti would be a must buy because of his 'look for pass rather than attempting to score'. Looking to play him next to Pogba with Pogba as a BBM.
Drawn out my shortlist for my next season already and will be looking to bring in Griezmann for Mkhitaryan, Jorginho for Carrick, Benjamin Henrichs for Valencia, Dybala for Lukaku, Luan for Zlatan, Rugani for Rojo.
Will post screenshots of my team's league position and the look of the current tactic once I'm halfway through testing it. Just beat Bayern 5-1 in a friendly as I was posting this.
Steve Dewilde
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Early days but brilliant piece of work, testing with United, Pogba is running the show his passing game is insane.
couple of questions:
1) any advice who should take the corners and set pieces in general? (maybe i missed didnt watch full video yet)
2) Who should i consider (money is not a problem) to strengthen right RMD (Mkhy is doing great but need someone to challenge him) and on the left wingback ( playin Blind atm, shaw still injuried and due to injury prone i cant count on him for a full season)
Anyway great job
couple of questions:
1) any advice who should take the corners and set pieces in general? (maybe i missed didnt watch full video yet)
2) Who should i consider (money is not a problem) to strengthen right RMD (Mkhy is doing great but need someone to challenge him) and on the left wingback ( playin Blind atm, shaw still injuried and due to injury prone i cant count on him for a full season)
Anyway great job
Firstly, thanks for explaining mate. As you said, I am aware of the fact that lower teams can't play like Pep's City. But, again as you said, with buying right players, mostly the best wonderkids, I think it will be possible to play like it. And you made a test with Burnley, to me, it was good against City, propably without any transfer. As I said, and it is also my last question, with the right and best players with fitting the tactic, it will be possible to play like Pep's City, I think. And I'll make a test and I'll share my results on Sunday. Thanks
Yeah without any transfer we did ok with Burnley. I'd say a top half finish with their default team would be possible. So if you bring in the right types of players and make sure your defensive line isn't too high depending on your defence, I think you'll be fine.
I think the Ramdeuters are key to the tactic tbh. But others have had success changing them to Inside Forwards it seems.
Thanks for watching!
I think it's a great idea getting Sane to provide more width & so forth. I think both Sane and Sterling are excellent players this year, so incredibly versatile which is something I always love and want my wide players to have!
Sounds solid! Looking forward to seeing your results.
Interesting as well that you've gone for a Target Man! Has that resulted in a reduced possession percentage?
Early days but brilliant piece of work, testing with United, Pogba is running the show his passing game is insane.
couple of questions:
1) any advice who should take the corners and set pieces in general? (maybe i missed didnt watch full video yet)
2) Who should i consider (money is not a problem) to strengthen right RMD (Mkhy is doing great but need someone to challenge him) and on the left wingback ( playin Blind atm, shaw still injuried and due to injury prone i cant count on him for a full season)
Anyway great job
I haven't set up any specific corner tactic on this to be honest. So this is entirely up to you nor is it something I've mentioned in the video.
As for the AMR RMD, I think players like Reus, Isco, Salah, Muller, Sanchez, Carrasco, Insigne, Hazard are all good shouts.
As for left back, the usual really. Alaba, Escudero, Sandro, Tierney, Di Marco, etc
Steve Dewilde
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Fulhamswede
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Its working great, getting high possession and being very solid at the back and also getting goals.
Only problem is that the Deep lying forward is getting pretty low ratings quite often, unless when he scores. Ive got both Icardi and Aguero and neither is doing terrific. They do score a resonable amount but i feel that they are the ones underperforming.
Only problem is that the Deep lying forward is getting pretty low ratings quite often, unless when he scores. Ive got both Icardi and Aguero and neither is doing terrific. They do score a resonable amount but i feel that they are the ones underperforming.
Steve Dewilde
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how is the tactic with new update any major changes ?
No worries.
Players like Reus, Isco, Salah, Muller, Sanchez, Carrasco, Insigne, Hazard are all good shouts.
I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses but I think FM18 in general is a bit meh when it comes to average ratings. I've seen instances on reddit where players score like 5 goals in a game and still don't get a 10.0 rating like in previous versions. Aguero had 15 goals and 6 assists for me yet still had a lower average rating than some of my other players. So as long as they're scoring and assisting tbh I'd just ignore the FM average rating. The lower that remains, the less likely the AI will want to buy them too
No idea but the match engine changes in the change log don't look like they would hinder anything.
unitedmann87
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Any succes with your tweaks???
Your analysis is fantastic but I fear the match engine is FAR too limited to recreate what Guardiola does with Man City. Guardiola's main success is how he get's the team working together to press the ball and their work rate in general...everyone gives so much credit for the way Man City play with the ball, which of course is incredibly important, but it's the press that creates such success. It's very hard to re-create that with the 'roles' system on the current engine. If we had the sliders we could much more realistically create something similar and I feel that's the way this game should be going. It's incredible how the Man City players effectively contribute to each phase of play and how they seamlessly get players up to support attacks but then get numbers back in defence.
I agree completely with you
I think the same applies not just to Guardiola's City but many other tactical approaches out there.
I miss the sliders. I honestly feel like the match engine/tactics engine has taken a step back since the old pre-FM13 slider days :/
Also, just as an update. I'm currently re-testing the tactic with Man City, post-update.
Also throwing in a new control based variation of the tactic (for you possession obsessed people out there) that can be used after going 2 goals up or holding on to a lead as part of the test.
Also throwing in a new control based variation of the tactic (for you possession obsessed people out there) that can be used after going 2 goals up or holding on to a lead as part of the test.
I agree completely with you
I think the same applies not just to Guardiola's City but many other tactical approaches out there.
I miss the sliders. I honestly feel like the match engine/tactics engine has taken a step back since the old pre-FM13 slider days :/
Definitely!!! I don't understand this roles thing. What manager would say, 'now go out there and play like a deep lying forward'?!!! They'll give them instructions like drop deep, get out to the wings etc. What I'd really like to see in this game is a chalkboard where you can position your players where you want them depending where the ball is on the pitch, both offensively and defensively. This is what happens in real life...then it come's down the stats like team work etc how effective they are at that. The game is just frustrating right now in that all creativity, and welll MANAGEMENT, has been taken out of it.
Anyway, I'd be really interested in your opinion on my take of the Man City tactic but I'm struggling to post screenshots on here at the mo
Definitely!!! I don't understand this roles thing. What manager would say, 'now go out there and play like a deep lying forward'?!!! They'll give them instructions like drop deep, get out to the wings etc. What I'd really like to see in this game is a chalkboard where you can position your players where you want them depending where the ball is on the pitch, both offensively and defensively. This is what happens in real life...then it come's down the stats like team work etc how effective they are at that. The game is just frustrating right now in that all creativity, and welll MANAGEMENT, has been taken out of it.
Anyway, I'd be really interested in your opinion on my take of the Man City tactic but I'm struggling to post screenshots on here at the mo
I agree completely. But when this was mentioned to SI, apparently they made the changes because it was closer to what they saw managers actually doing at real life football clubs they visited lol.
One thing that really frustrates me is how I can't place the position of a player anywhere I want.
What if I want a player who sits in between the position on the tactics screen on the touchline and also not as an AMC?
"Sit Narrower" on a wide player sometimes is honestly useless.
Why can't I get my center backs spreading when we want to build from the back except when playing 3 at the back? etc etc.
I'm pretty sure we could both sit here and rant all day long
Okay, done some testing on the LATEST 18.2 patch.
The good news is, it is still producing results. Beating teams like Manchester United, Chelsea, Juventus. We would've beat Liverpool if not for Aguero throughout this entire play through turning in to a penalty missing maniac not once, not twice but three times. Not quite sure what happened against Arsenal, but don't really care tbh.
The bad news is that I think something in the patch has played around with the effectiveness of the central players as well as suddenly now Sterling is a bit **** lol.
Granted, Kompany got angry at me and that completely messed up the Dynamics at one point so it could have been just that but I don't think so.
Every match my assistant would say "Lost a lot of possession in central areas of the middle third of the pitch" which suggests that maybe the extra risky passes + more direct passes on De Bruyne & Silva post-update are causing issues.
But generally speaking, everything still seems fine in terms of achieving plug & play success as well as the right style of play, to all those asking.
I am working on an improved version in my own time that aims to score more goals that is less representative of Guardiola and more representative of how I like teams to play. If I find any success, I'll post it here too.
The good news is, it is still producing results. Beating teams like Manchester United, Chelsea, Juventus. We would've beat Liverpool if not for Aguero throughout this entire play through turning in to a penalty missing maniac not once, not twice but three times. Not quite sure what happened against Arsenal, but don't really care tbh.
The bad news is that I think something in the patch has played around with the effectiveness of the central players as well as suddenly now Sterling is a bit **** lol.
Granted, Kompany got angry at me and that completely messed up the Dynamics at one point so it could have been just that but I don't think so.
Every match my assistant would say "Lost a lot of possession in central areas of the middle third of the pitch" which suggests that maybe the extra risky passes + more direct passes on De Bruyne & Silva post-update are causing issues.
But generally speaking, everything still seems fine in terms of achieving plug & play success as well as the right style of play, to all those asking.
I am working on an improved version in my own time that aims to score more goals that is less representative of Guardiola and more representative of how I like teams to play. If I find any success, I'll post it here too.
Finished first season with the tactic yesterday evening, did some tinkering mid way though and it really helped to find Lukaku his scoring boots + got the right side attacker more involved within the game.
Still, somehow it seems, it can be better.. The possession and dominance isn't actually that convincing yet.
It's the home tactic then, what I changed. Kept the Away tactic as it was and didn't really use it since the tinkering.
Still, somehow it seems, it can be better.. The possession and dominance isn't actually that convincing yet.
It's the home tactic then, what I changed. Kept the Away tactic as it was and didn't really use it since the tinkering.