Any chance of breaking your posts down just a little tiny bit Curtis? I have seen somewhere you say youre a fast writer, but **** me, so much to read in one post haha! You're well informed, i'll give you that.
I don't think he's overrated, personally. Think he does himself justice and deserves the praise he gets. Sure, he might coach good teams but he like every other coach started off somewhere and he made his own career, starting at Barca and so on.
You can't ignore that 9 year unbeaten home run. Just can't.
They wherent Struggling, it was 6 or 7 games in and they where 6 points off us, not a terrible start.
To Say he did better is extremely harsh, He bottles it at the final hundle and chelsea didnt look half as ruthless under Avram as they did Jose. Dont forget Avram has Jose Team.
And Jose's team was a combination of Ranieri's and Abramovic's team.
Anyway, Avram took them farther than Mourinho ever did and would have won the whole thing if Terry and Anelka didn't bottle it, you can't blame Grant for that. As for Avram having Jose's team, that proves my point, Avram walked in mid-season to someone else's club when no one thought he'd do well and look at how successful they were. My point is that you or I could have managed Chelsea and gotten similar results if we came into it with a reputation.
Every club he has been at has won Silverware. Not exactly overrated. His tactics are criticized by Spanish journalists, but he is a wonderful manager. Mourinho had to put up with Abramovich's buys at Chelski(Schevchenko, Ballack), in a similar way to Ancelotti, who is expected to play Torres because of his price tag. Chelsea will never win the Champions League until Abramovich stops interfering in their transfers.
Mourinho is a world-class manager. And I hate Real Madrid, Inter, Chelsea with a passion.
@The point you make about how Madrid play so defensively against Barca - The Madrid fans generally accept now that that's how you play against Barcelona. What other style of play is more effective against Barca than the one Mourinho adopts? Mourinho operated more offensively in the 5-0 defeat earlier in the season, look what happened there. Jose thought with the players at his disposal he could match Barca but that wasn't the case, we are talking about arguably the best team ever. You can attack Barca and win, sure. Hercules did it earlier in the season and Real Betis also beat them in the Copa del Rey (Barca did rest some of their stars though). If you play attacking vs the current Barca you will probably beat them 1/10 times, the other 9 resulting in what happened to Madrid earlier in the season.
I would love it if Madrid came out tonight and just go at Barca, Jose said he will do it but I doubt he will. We will see how Jose intends to play when we see the line up, and if Pepe is starting in the Alonso role.
Other than that, you have some good points in the OP but completely dismiss and 'forget' about some of his other achievements (Some mentioned above). Jose isn't the best ever, that would be overrating him, but he's certaintly one of the best at the moment.
Any chance of breaking your posts down just a little tiny bit Curtis? I have seen somewhere you say youre a fast writer, but **** me, so much to read in one post haha! You're well informed, i'll give you that.
I don't think he's overrated, personally. Think he does himself justice and deserves the praise he gets. Sure, he might coach good teams but he like every other coach started off somewhere and he made his own career, starting at Barca and so on.
You can't ignore that 9 year unbeaten home run. Just can't.
Thanks! My main points are that he has managed at the best club in the country every time. He gets trophies he should be expected to get (other than 04 CL trophy), and other managers (Avram Grant, for example) have been able to do just as well with his extremely talented teams. He spends way too much money and only helps the club in the short term. Inter's squad was the oldest in the entire continent of Europe when he left and didn't have much depth. They will have a lot of rebuilding to do in the next couple of seasons. Also, Real Madrid this season has not been good enough. They should have been much better than they were last year (they've had a whole year to gel, plus they've added on even more world class players) yet they have been worse (can't finish with as many points as last year). A huge part of this is Jose's fault because he got rid of Guti and Raul, who Real have desperately needed this season (a deep-lying playmaker to be there when Alonso is out and another striker). Also this RM team is so ridiculously talented it's not even funny, and when Jose gets a trophy this season with his negative football I don't think we should jump up and down and praise him. Winning trophies should be the expectation with this Real Madrid team, and I'm talking about Champions League or La Liga trophies. He's already lost one. And even if he wins the other two, considering how good this team is, it's not that great of an achievement. But people will act like he's a genius as usual.
Also, if you don't think he's overrated, than for me that means you think he's the best of all time. Because that's the popular perception...
Like JDY says, you try and play attacking against Barca, and you will be mauled. I have seen it this season. Barca's big wins(4 goals plus) were all against attacking sides. You need to play defensive against them, even Pep Guardiola says Barca are useless without the ball.
Porto was one of the big clubs in Portugal, I'm sure its budget dwarfed most of his competitors.
I agree with most of the rest of your post and I'd like it if I had any likes. What I do disagree with though is about Wenger...when he made the Invincibles he proved he could build Arsenal in the short term, and I think he won the title right when he got there if I remember. If Wenger was employed by Inter and told to spend a bunch of money on well-established players and to win at all costs in the short term (not playing beautiful football), I think he could, his record at Monaco and first 8 years at Arsenal would suggest that. He'd never do that though because he's not that type of manager (and neither is SAF, who wouldn't jump from club to club because he loves ManU so much), and that's why I respect those two more than Mourinho. Wenger still has consistent success despite having a lot of hoops to jump through (tight finances, putting a good product on the field), which Mourinho didn't really have to do. Also, Wenger can't be a Mourinho to win trophies because that would involve hurting the club in the long-term. Arsene cares about Arsenal too much to do that, Mourinho doesn't give a **** about anyone other than himself.
But I agree with you 100% that certain managers are good at certain things. Mourinho is great at what he does, as is Holloway, as is SAF, as is Wenger. But why then does Mourinho get all of the credit? I swear that the popular perception is that Mourinho is (or will be) a better manager than SAF, and not until he's proven that he can build a club himself and make it successful in the long-term will I buy that argument. I'd say almost everyone thinks Mourinho is a better manager than Wenger, and for the reasons I've stated before, I think that's horseshit.
But the invincible season was a remarkable and magnificent achievement. But then so is a 9 year home unbeaten record? I would argue it's a greater achievement for Mourinho, than an invincible season is for Wenger; since Mourinho is the only constant throughout those 9 years. Wenger certainly did an excellent job, but he had the same excellent team for the whole time.
And I don't think Wenger would ever go to Inter, spend big and win some trophies. It's not his style, and is far too stubborn to do it.
I think part of his popularity is due to himself. He's the self styled special one. Like Cantona, incredibly arrogant - but then he backs it up time and time again, and people love him for it. Not the greatest, not yet maybe. I think he wants the United job to finish his legacy as a manager, he's travelled and done it all, many times. Surely the last step is to take over the mantle of the greatest manager and carry on his legacy. Also, I think he's the only manager with the ego required to actually take over from SAF.
Oh come on, I'm not a Barca fan, I'm a neutral who admires what they're doing and would like to see them do well. Just as I'd like to see Arsenal do well. But don't accuse me of being some kind of glory-hunter.
Anyway, Barca is the team this year that's setting records. Mourinho couldn't even do what Pellegrini did last year and this year's team is much better and has had more time to gel. Is Pellegrini better than Mourinho? If you look at what they've done for their respective clubs, I think they're on par with each other. But the media and the general public would call me crazy for such a statement...
Great post, better than the other ones.
Porto was one of the big clubs in Portugal, I'm sure its budget dwarfed most of his competitors.
I agree with most of the rest of your post and I'd like it if I had any likes. What I do disagree with though is about Wenger...when he made the Invincibles he proved he could build Arsenal in the short term, and I think he won the title right when he got there if I remember. If Wenger was employed by Inter and told to spend a bunch of money on well-established players and to win at all costs in the short term (not playing beautiful football), I think he could, his record at Monaco and first 8 years at Arsenal would suggest that. He'd never do that though because he's not that type of manager (and neither is SAF, who wouldn't jump from club to club because he loves ManU so much), and that's why I respect those two more than Mourinho. Wenger still has consistent success despite having a lot of hoops to jump through (tight finances, putting a good product on the field), which Mourinho didn't really have to do. Also, Wenger can't be a Mourinho to win trophies because that would involve hurting the club in the long-term. Arsene cares about Arsenal too much to do that, Mourinho doesn't give a **** about anyone other than himself.
But I agree with you 100% that certain managers are good at certain things. Mourinho is great at what he does, as is Holloway, as is SAF, as is Wenger. But why then does Mourinho get all of the credit? I swear that the popular perception is that Mourinho is (or will be) a better manager than SAF, and not until he's proven that he can build a club himself and make it successful in the long-term will I buy that argument. I'd say almost everyone thinks Mourinho is a better manager than Wenger, and for the reasons I've stated before, I think that's horseshit.
Porto's budget didnt dwarf that of the others. I dont understand the media fawning over him (much like i dont understand the media fawning over Pep), but you do no justice, he is a great manager. Firstly i dont care what team you are, to go unbeaten at home for 9 years is unbelieveable, you cannot play that down. What he did with Porto was fantastic, with chelsea, he took a good team and made them fearsome, made them great. At Inter he took hold of a very good side and took them to a new level.
Staying at a club long term isnt a standalone measure of success. Yes he doesn't stay around every long, but most coaches move in 3-4 seasons, even Pep has been reduced from a sprightly coach to a haggard figure, and he talks more and more about new challenges. What he has achieved is remarkable and he is a great coach
Mourinho is a result getter - if he is give £150mil to buy himself a fantasy squad. I'd like to have seen how he'd have done managing an modestly financed average team instead of moneybags Chelski when he came here.
He started the ball rolling at Porto, but that was a weak league - eversince then he's certainly loaded the dice in his favour by making sure he's had loadsamoney to splurge or that he was inheriting a 'worldy' squad..
Oh come on, I'm not a Barca fan, I'm a neutral who admires what they're doing and would like to see them do well. Just as I'd like to see Arsenal do well. But don't accuse me of being some kind of glory-hunter.
Anyway, Barca is the team this year that's setting records. Mourinho couldn't even do what Pellegrini did last year and this year's team is much better and has had more time to gel. Is Pellegrini better than Mourinho? If you look at what they've done for their respective clubs, I think they're on par with each other. But the media and the general public would call me crazy for such a statement...
And Jose's team was a combination of Ranieri's and Abramovic's team.
Anyway, Avram took them farther than Mourinho ever did and would have won the whole thing if Terry and Anelka didn't bottle it, you can't blame Grant for that. As for Avram having Jose's team, that proves my point, Avram walked in mid-season to someone else's club when no one thought he'd do well and look at how successful they were. My point is that you or I could have managed Chelsea and gotten similar results if we came into it with a reputation.
First of all how can you call it Ranieris team, He signed Drogba, Essien, Cavalho, made Lampard and Terry into better players, signed Cole, Ferriera and changed the system to get the best out of Joe Cole and Robben early on.
Roman signed Jose only a handful of players, Ballack and Shevas.... yeah so it was Joses team.
And you pick one european run to signal Avram doing better. They where mid table after 7 games.... Hardly an horrible start, with only one loss. Avram bottled the league run in, League cup and the Champs league all in one season, he did a good job but better then Jose, Never
Mourinho is a result getter - if he is give £150mil to buy himself a fantasy squad. I'd like to have seen how he'd have done managing an modestly financed average team instead of moneybags Chelski when he came here.
He started the ball rolling at Porto, but that was a weak league - eversince then he's certainly loaded the dice in his favour by making sure he's had loadsamoney to splurge or that he was inheriting a 'worldy' squad..
firstly if you're going to take the **** out of a club get it right, it would be Chelsov, not Chelski, Chelski would make it Polish....
Porto in a weak league, didnt he win the CL with a team from a "weak league"? each side he goes to he finds a way to take them to another level, Porto, Chelsea, Inter
Let me start by saying I agree with the general consensus of your post. Mourinho has not done enough to suggest he is as good as Ferguson yet. However.
The times he spent in Portugal isn't remembered for winning Liga Sagres so much as winning the Champions League. You can't criticise him for beating Monaco in the final and not facing Arsenal (who btw were never very convincing in Europe); Mourinho could only beat what was in front of him. Monaco were an extremely good team at that time, and they deserved to get into the final because they were better than the people they beat. The issue of Porto's players is also something you've missed. The whole point about the team was that frankly, they weren't that good when Mourinho came. Look at the likes of Deco, Carvalho, Costinha and you think "oh well, it's obvious he won because he had good players". The thing is though, they weren't good players until Mourinho came along. Just look at Paulo Ferreira and Nuno Valente, the fullbacks. Since coming to England, Ferreira has been decent but nothing more, mediocre in fact. Whilst at Porto, he was truly amazing.
Before he came to Chelsea, they were a mess, a bit of a laughing stock. A club flush with cash run by a tinkerer and owned by a mad bad billionaire. That said, can't REALLY argue with the rest of your points.
You cannot call Inter 'lucky' in the transfer market. That is just extremely good business and transfer acumen by Mourinho. Before Mourinho, they had a decent squad, but I assure you it wasn't world class. This is the team when he took over:
That's a decent team, no doubt, but by no means one of the three most talented squads in the world. Of the whole squad, in fact, you can only pick out about six truly world class players. Compare and contrast that, then, to the team Mourinho left, after having a net spend of just about £18 mil:
I'm counting at least 10 world class players there. And yes, I accept this method is subjective, but still. You cannot call Mourinho lucky for being extremely good in the transfer market.
And there is no way you can say that they played badly. What they did was something Mourinho is the best in the world at bar none; grind out victories. They were one of the best defensive teams I have seen, perhaps even ever. On top of that, they were tactically flexible and always retained enough thrust and attacking prowess to cause opponents trouble, even if they were in ultra-defensive mode. What you call scraping victories over lower teams was what both I and Mourinho call winning with as little effort as possible.
Chelsea had changed. Just because the players were the same doesn't mean they play the same, act the same as they did when he managed them all those years ago. Players develop, after all.
Who's to say a big, strong, physical team is the sure-fire way to beat Barca? Sure, we think that now, but only after Mourinho beat them like that. It's funny you should mention the ref 'helping' Barca in the first leg; in the second, Inter had to play without Motta for the majority of it after the ref sent him off extremely cheaply. Saying United would've beat them is subjective, and your opinion is against anyone else's. There's a reason they played Bayern in the final; Bayern beat United. They were the better team.
Can't argue that he left an ageing team. It's true. But it is also what you get for employing Mourinho, and he makes no apologies for it. Nor can I argue against his record in Spain so far, but remember he is playing against one of the best teams in all history for the title. One thing you don't mention is Benzema's renaissance into an extremely potent striker.
Doubt it is Mourinho's ego that made him sell Guti/Raul. He's not averse to keeping vets in a team. Look at Zanetti, Cordoba, Stankovic, Materazzi and Cambiasso. Also, you think his ego is annoying, I think it is rather hilarious. It livens the place up a little, no doubt about it.
Mourinho makes no apologies for how his team plays, because it has served him well and won him trophies. If you go out and try to play football against Barca, you lose. Simple as. They will utterly destroy you. What he did was the right tactic, and it showed that the gap between the two clubs is closing. Say what you want about Mourinho's football, whine about how negative it is, but there is no doubt it is damned effective.
You start questioning what he's done, now. What I never understood was how a legacy was somehow worth more than winning it with multiple different clubs, but that's for a different time. Could Ferguson have done what Mourinho has, win major European trophies in three different countries and with a different team each time? Rebuild more or less each year, and every other year win a major trophy? Could Wenger have done it?
We don't know. What iffing is completely and utterly pointless.
How you can think Mourinho is overrated is really beyond me. Porto will proberly never win the CL in our lifetime again and if that isent enough so many of your points are flawed. When he joined Chelsea the players he bought in were not the best in Europe at that time with the exception of maybe Carvalho and Ferreira who had just won the CL with Jose the previous season. At the time he spent 24million on Drogba, 5million on Kezman, 10million on Tiago and an undisclosed fee for Nuno Morais. How many of them players were sensational in that first season for Chelsea??
Then after winning Chelsea's first league title for 50years and giving Chelsea fans success they never thought they would ever see he went to Inter Milan. After his first season he realised they relied too much on Ibrahimovic and he never done it in the big games so because he is such a great coach he saw this and managed to get 40odd million for him plus Eto'o. And with that money he bought players like Lucio and Sneijder and built a squad that won the treble.
Honestly mate what more do you what from him. Maybe he plays a brand of football you dont like but its effective simple as that.
Jose need not go to stoke, blackpool to prove what a talented manager he is. He is among the best so he is chosen by the best of the clubs. Simples. Never ever will fat Sam get a chance to manage bigger club as he is not good enough. To compare or to ask jose to prove with the clubs Sam and Holloway managed is ridiculous.
You are just downplaying every achievements of Jose, hence i said you are underrating him. Like Jacko said, Chelsea were in bit of a mess when he came. He brought solidity to the team. They were grinding the results week in week out.
At Inter he did extraordinary job. Those players were offered for all clubs, it is a master stroke to jump in first and sign them. And also what you are forgetting is Jose achieved with a team that didn't fully gel. Many players played their first season with Inter still they played like a team. Cheers to Jose.
Did you see how Materazzi cried when Jose left? There is something in Jose, he creates superb atmosphere in the dressing room which makes the players to do what ever he asks for. Eto'o virtually played as Left back in the champions league, i dont think he will do it for anyone else.
Jose is one of the best Manager. But not Best of all time. He has all the time in the world to become one of the best ever if not THE BEST.
I don't think Mourinho is overrated. Your prime argument seems to be that he hasn't achieved what Alex Ferguson has and so can't be considered a great manager in ability like Ferguson. But give him time, I'm of the opinion that Mourinho will have achieved greater success than any other manager by the time he retires (Unless he retires rather early).
Last year inter were the most talented team in the world but now there an ageing squad who were always going to struggle? So how do you explain this? Jose left and 3 months pasted and Inter go from best to ageing, the team was the same for Benitez as Jose
Anyways...i didn't read all that because it's just too much now and im not in the mood of reading garbage like the title is. The title says it all....the writer is either a barca fan or then he doesn't know anything about Football and how big influence Managers have to the team they manage.
Mourinho is the best coach in the world and it's not his fault that Barcelona is only getting better and have played together for long. I hate Barca all my heart but they are the best.
Mourinho has taken us to the Copa final and CL Semis. It doesn't matter how many points we get in the league...the position is all that matters and we will finish second this season.
He builds squad with money? Yes...nowdays, you know why? Because the owners trust him and give him money to spend.
If you dont remember...Porto won the Cl with Mourinho in the charge..you know why? Because he brought the best from his players! They wern't favourites. He succeeds everywhere and im sure he bring success to Real and after this he will bring more success to england.
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