Michael Carrick – The England Player That Never Was

[alicwkd]

Was looking for a Carrick chalkboard of his games against Bayern (first leg) and all his games against Barca. Unfortunately couldn't find them. If anybody knows where they can be found, I'd be grateful

The reason I ask is that I seem to remember (could be wide of the mark as this is purely from memory) that he had very poor games against these teams, with most of the strengths you mentioned in the article actually being non existent. There is the occasional time, especially when pressed, that Carrick loses the composure he usually has in such large supply. Like I say might be imagining things :$

On the whole though I agree with the article (which is well written by the way). As to whether he could help England, hard to say. Yes I agree that the European teams/ nations would probably have been able to use him better than us, but then as a general rule the national teams on the continent are much more focused on, and far better at, ball retention and intelligent use of the ball. Would a player like Carrick really be much use in a team so hopelessly inept at keeping the ball? England are still too much about the physical side of the game for most Englishmen to embrace a player like Carrick.

 

[Mike.]

In our 433 though, the "passer" and "creator" aren't fully defined roles, Lampard often made runs from deep as well (this would happen even more, I imagine with a Gerrard/Wilshere combo, which we'll likely field in the Euros), with the destroyer taking all the defensive resposibilty. I guess we need more of a Xavi style passer than an Alonso one, to draw a parallel. Just my opinion, but I think it'd get the best out of our high quality midfield

Its not that it's undefined. Lampard likes to get forward, and has always lacked the discipline to hold his position in the way the passer should

 

[Mike.]

Was looking for a Carrick chalkboard of his games against Bayern (first leg) and all his games against Barca. Unfortunately couldn't find them. If anybody knows where they can be found, I'd be grateful

The reason I ask is that I seem to remember (could be wide of the mark as this is purely from memory) that he had very poor games against these teams, with most of the strengths you mentioned in the article actually being non existent. There is the occasional time, especially when pressed, that Carrick loses the composure he usually has in such large supply. Like I say might be imagining things :$

On the whole though I agree with the article (which is well written by the way). As to whether he could help England, hard to say. Yes I agree that the European teams/ nations would probably have been able to use him better than us, but then as a general rule the national teams on the continent are much more focused on, and far better at, ball retention and intelligent use of the ball. Would a player like Carrick really be much use in a team so hopelessly inept at keeping the ball? England are still too much about the physical side of the game for most Englishmen to embrace a player like Carrick.

The only person better against Barca was Rooney. Against Bayern he was in poor form, and when he plays badly he makes very few, but very costly mistakes.

To answer the bold, when on form yes. Carrick, Wilshere, Rooney as your midfield triumverate, and the few players in the side who know what possession football is. Internationally, where the game is about interceptions and pressing rather than lunging tackles on the whole, thats a better bet

 

[Mads2506]

The only person better against Barca was Rooney. Against Bayern he was in poor form, and when he plays badly he makes very few, but very costly mistakes.

To answer the bold, when on form yes. Carrick, Wilshere, Rooney as your midfield triumverate, and the few players in the side who know what possession football is. Internationally, where the game is about interceptions and pressing rather than lunging tackles on the whole, thats a better bet

I think Park and the centrebacks did better.

 

[alicwkd]

The only person better against Barca was Rooney. Against Bayern he was in poor form, and when he plays badly he makes very few, but very costly mistakes.

To answer the bold, when on form yes. Carrick, Wilshere, Rooney as your midfield triumverate, and the few players in the side who know what possession football is. Internationally, where the game is about interceptions and pressing rather than lunging tackles on the whole, thats a better bet

Would be nice to see Capello at least try that. Problem is he won't, because he knows unless he wins the stick he will get for leaving out Gerrard and Lampard would be great. Such is the state of the English game that most people would be intolerant of a team without 'starlet' type players, as was touched upon in the article. Despite those two never producing their best form for England the old argument of "but they're such good players you can't really leave them out" always comes back.

 

[Mike.]

I think Park and the centrebacks did better.

Park was at fault for one of the goals, when he shifted to CM. Centrebacks would have been overrun were it not for Carrick's interceptions, and then he actually gave us a platform on the rare moments we went forwards

 

[Mike.]

Would be nice to see Capello at least try that. Problem is he won't, because he knows unless he wins the stick he will get for leaving out Gerrard and Lampard would be great. Such is the state of the English game that most people would be intolerant of a team without 'starlet' type players, as was touched upon in the article. Despite those two never producing their best form for England the old argument of "but they're such good players you can't really leave them out" always comes back.

And therein lies why we are so far behind

 

[GodCubed]

And therein lies why we are so far behind

Indeed. Brazil don't try and shoehorn two players who play in the same position into a side in Dani Alves and Maicon, they rotate between them depending on form and necessity. Lampard and Gerrard together just don't work, and it's time Capello realised that. One needs only look at Brazil in 2006 to see that chucking the best players in and hoping they do well is disastrous.

 

[Mike.]

Indeed. Brazil don't try and shoehorn two players who play in the same position into a side in Dani Alves and Maicon, they rotate between them depending on form and necessity. Lampard and Gerrard together just don't work, and it's time Capello realised that. One needs only look at Brazil in 2006 to see that chucking the best players in and hoping they do well is disastrous.

As usual we learn this all too late, but one of more depressing things is that when you read various article and blogs, the comments of the england fans are largely still 6-7 behind

Pearce is halfway there, but needs to learn from the successes f his attacking qualifying side, and the failures of his defensive tournament side (yes he was robbed of wilshere, but there was Lansbury and could have called up McEachran)

God help us if Redknapp gets the Job

 

[ajt09]

As usual we learn this all too late, but one of more depressing things is that when you read various article and blogs, the comments of the england fans are largely still 6-7 behind

Pearce is halfway there, but needs to learn from the successes f his attacking qualifying side, and the failures of his defensive tournament side (yes he was robbed of wilshere, but there was Lansbury and could have called up McEachran)

God help us if Redknapp gets the Job

Shame there's not an English version of Fergie. Someone who instills the basics into players, wouldn't stand for this wag ****....and sure as **** wouldn't use an umbrella if it's raining. But most importantly, puts the players into the right positions, adjusts accordingly to situations during a match. The proper things.

 

[Mike.]

Shame there's not an English version of Fergie. Someone who instills the basics into players, wouldn't stand for this wag ****....and sure as **** wouldn't use an umbrella if it's raining. But most importantly, puts the players into the right positions, adjusts accordingly to situations during a match. The proper things.

Unfortunately the closest replica is also Scottish. Pearce needs to show the side he displayed when he was on the pitch, walk into the FA headquarters, demand that job and grab the Senior team by the balls and tell them to man the **** up. Considering how much we chase the ball in the Prem, it amazes me that we havent even got a decent ****** pressing game

 

[GodCubed]

Can't we just appoint Roy Keane and have him punch some of them?

EDIT: Jaap Stam must be knocking around somewhere too. Jaap for assistant.

 

[ajt09]

Unfortunately the closest replica is also Scottish. Pearce needs to show the side he displayed when he was on the pitch, walk into the FA headquarters, demand that job and grab the Senior team by the balls and tell them to man the **** up. Considering how much we chase the ball in the Prem, it amazes me that we havent even got a decent ****** pressing game

Very good point. Forgot to mention the passion bit. Some players should watch some DVD footage of past games, and show them the passion that they should be displaying when playing, and pull their socks up. Terry Butcher being a prime example. Who can forget his head heavily bloodied and bandaged? Thats pride and passion. Yes there are a couple of players (Terry and Carra, and of course Becks who'd work his backside off) who'd put their bodies on the line for the cause, but you can't leave it to just a couple of players to carry the rest. Like you said, we desperately need someone to just walk into FA HQ and just demand the job.

 

[GodCubed]

Very good point. Forgot to mention the passion bit. Some players should watch some DVD footage of past games, and show them the passion that they should be displaying when playing, and pull their socks up. Terry Butcher being a prime example. Who can forget his head heavily bloodied and bandaged? Thats pride and passion. Yes there are a couple of players (Terry and Carra, and of course Becks who'd work his backside off) who'd put their bodies on the line for the cause, but you can't leave it to just a couple of players to carry the rest. Like you said, we desperately need someone to just walk into FA HQ and just demand the job.

I think I disagree with you here. Passion is one of those annoying buzzwords used by the press in order to describe why we lost because they don't understand the real reason. As the English press and English fans dislike tactics and actual analysis of the game (hence why so many England fans are still in favour of playing a rigid 4-4-2 and our best individual players within that system), they turn to 'lack of passion' as a scapegoat for why we fail. I don't think lack of passion is something we suffer unduly from - in fact I'd argue quite the opposite, that our players' passion for the game inspires them to run around like headless chickens and get overcome in the heat of the moment - and it is certainly not a major thing that needs to be addressed.

 

[alicwkd]

The Parker-Wilshere-Rooney axis has potential. I hope he perseveres with it as I think it is our best bet. If Carrick is in good form going into the tournament, then by all means pick him. The important thing is the system he is coming into. Given 2 years of hard work since the world cup, the right system and the right personnel, I honestly think we can challenge.

Capello seems to have learnt his lesson from the world cup that a 4-4-2 containing Gerrard and Lampard is not the way to go. If Carrick has an impressive season, he could be a vital component in out team for the Euros. I'm praying Capello gives him a chance to impress in a friendly or in qualifying.

 

[sunilvk7]

Shame there's not an English version of Fergie. Someone who instills the basics into players, wouldn't stand for this wag ****....and sure as **** wouldn't use an umbrella if it's raining. But most importantly, puts the players into the right positions, adjusts accordingly to situations during a match. The proper things.

Capello is Italian Version of Fergie. He is as good as Fergie in man management, at least he is the closest.. Still he failed with NT team. Problem is with FA and the players who are poor tactically..

 

[Mike.]

Capello is Italian Version of Fergie. He is as good as Fergie in man management, at least he is the closest.. Still he failed with NT team. Problem is with FA and the players who are poor tactically..

Tactically he has been slow to adapt, something that can work at club level (hence his immense success) but not at international level

 

[sunilvk7]

Tactically he has been slow to adapt, something that can work at club level (hence his immense success) but not at international level

I wouldn't say that. Its more likely about differences in philosophies. Italians play slow game building up from back and also they are extremely patience. But In England people expect fast tempo games, and has 0 patience. As soon as you get the ball only way to pass is lump it to forward.

Capello job was never easy, I dont think even managers like Fergie, Wenger could do anything with the team having this mentality. Only bright spot is having players like Wilshere who knows the value of possession game.

 

[Mike.]

I wouldn't say that. Its more likely about differences in philosophies. Italians play slow game building up from back and also they are extremely patience. But In England people expect fast tempo games, and has 0 patience. As soon as you get the ball only way to pass is lump it to forward.

Capello job was never easy, I dont think even managers like Fergie, Wenger could do anything with the team having this mentality. Only bright spot is having players like Wilshere who knows the value of possession game.

There was alwasy going to be a difference, but still he has been slow. We still do not have a pressing game.

Wenger and SAF would have, they have a fantastic knowledge of our domestic game, coupled with their huge continental experience. Both would have made Carrick a focal point and built from there. Both have the sheer force of will to ignore all else around them

 

[sunilvk7]

There was alwasy going to be a difference, but still he has been slow. We still do not have a pressing game.

Wenger and SAF would have, they have a fantastic knowledge of our domestic game, coupled with their huge continental experience. Both would have made Carrick a focal point and built from there. Both have the sheer force of will to ignore all else around them

Maybe i was OTT when I said Fergie and Wenger wouldn't have made difference.

Thats a very good point Mike, that they both have fantasctic domestic knowledge.. One more reason to support why National team manager should be from within the league/country.

Capello was fantastic and winner in every team he managed. Shame with how he is struggling with England NT as when he was appointed I thought "Finally some manager who wont take any **** from players"..