Mr Langvatn's Tactic Center for FM17

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr Langvatn
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jesaustralia said:
+Not all tactics are tested - only selected tactics or people that want their tactics tested - that by itsself makes the test corrupt - then their is the testers - clueless about game mechanics - what you need to be able to succeed with a tactic - high team cohesion level for instance - you can't test a tactic and get a straight answer without this one beeing high - they don't have that - tactics blossom when the team gel is at max - their is a huge difference between blending well together and extremely strong understanding - its like playing with 2 different tactics - I know this from experience...

I played a Wolves save in a world league database - Wolves was in division 5 I got them promoted to 4 and in the ingame cup which has 512 teams in it - they destroyed the likes of Barcelona Man.city etc and went on to win the whole thing - that was with average players like Omar Al-Soma - iorfa - Kortney Hause - etc etc all that was possible becourse my team had a high team gel - right players - high morale - and many more things - so my point saying this out loud is you can't trust a test that doesn't incorporate these mechanisms as the difference is simply to huge - many tactics drown after being tested and that is extremely unfair to the creator/s - ofcourse the effort and time put in to the tests are a job well done, but I gotta tell you - its timewaste=20 as long that these things are not in order.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Even if there was a way to set maximum team cohesion in the test, I wouldn't want to do that, because we then move away from our philosophy on that the test should resemble a new personal savegame in as many areas as possible without removing test accuracy. When you start a new game, your team doesn't have perfect team gel. And people also like to buy new players, which further disrupts team gel.. We want to find tactics that work well under these conditions.

Sorry that you didn't like our test, although there are many people who do like it, so please let this thread be for people who actually like it :)

PS. And please don't call us corrupt and clueless about the game, you know this is not true, and I have no idea why you said that tbh :) I didn't think we had any bad blood...
 
MR.L you said: When you start a new game, your team doesn't have perfect team gel.
i tottaly agree... so as i understand you guys testing all tactics with superb morale? But i think it will be more realistic to test them in "GOOD"... couse you not getting a SUPERB morale since 1st game of the season.And that morale is building to superb if you are very lucky and have about 4-5 games winning streak :)
 
jesaustralia said:
+Not all tactics are tested - only selected tactics or people that want their tactics tested - that by itsself makes the test corrupt - then their is the testers - clueless about game mechanics - what you need to be able to succeed with a tactic - high team cohesion level for instance - you can't test a tactic and get a straight answer without this one beeing high - they don't have that - tactics blossom when the team gel is at max - their is a huge difference between blending well together and extremely strong understanding - its like playing with 2 different tactics - I know this from experience...

I played a Wolves save in a world league database - Wolves was in division 5 I got them promoted to 4 and in the ingame cup which has 512 teams in it - they destroyed the likes of Barcelona Man.city etc and went on to win the whole thing - that was with average players like Omar Al-Soma - iorfa - Kortney Hause - etc etc all that was possible becourse my team had a high team gel - right players - high morale - and many more things - so my point saying this out loud is you can't trust a test that doesn't incorporate these mechanisms as the difference is simply to huge - many tactics drown after being tested and that is extremely unfair to the creator/s - ofcourse the effort and time put in to the tests are a job well done, but I gotta tell you - its timewaste=20 as long that these things are not in order.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I believe I'm the first one who gave my feedback about team cohesion were an issue in this test. IMO, the ideal team cohesion state when the test start should be "team is blending well" as this will resemble a fresh new save. Although it is not possible in Mr L's test now due to too many players in the test team but the test accuracy is still way higher than what you described as timewaste=20.

Anyway, the problem about team cohesion will be solved when Mr L start the league specific test which will be exactly 100% what a fresh new actual save will be only with more matches. IMO, we should continue to provide constructive feedback and encourage Mr L and his team so that they can continue to improve the test instead of bashing and nitpicking here which is useless=20 and timewaste=20.
 
Wigo15 said:
MR.L you said: When you start a new game, your team doesn't have perfect team gel.
i tottaly agree... so as i understand you guys testing all tactics with superb morale? But i think it will be more realistic to test them in "GOOD"... couse you not getting a SUPERB morale since 1st game of the season.And that morale is building to superb if you are very lucky and have about 4-5 games winning streak :)
Click to expand...

IMO this is irrelevant because both the test team and all opponents players are having superb morale. The key is to have every players in the test to have best condition so that any random factors due to player morale, fitness and etc can be minimized.

To make it easier to understand, let's say ok morale = 50% of the time players will do their best, good = 70%, very good = 90%, superb = 100% so we want to have 100% and not 70%. You got me?
 
Wigo15 said:
MR.L you said: When you start a new game, your team doesn't have perfect team gel.
i tottaly agree... so as i understand you guys testing all tactics with superb morale? But i think it will be more realistic to test them in "GOOD"... couse you not getting a SUPERB morale since 1st game of the season.And that morale is building to superb if you are very lucky and have about 4-5 games winning streak :)
Click to expand...

If it was possible, we would freeze morale at lower than superb. But FM Fitness Coach maximizes it and keeps it maximized. You guys have to remember, we can only test with the tools that are available to us! If we have "Creative Freedom = 20" that would open up for a better test. It would be better to test with good morale rather than superb, I fully agree. But we are limited by the options we have.

That said, just to be clear, morale needs to be frozen in a tactic test, as luck/bad luck has too much of an effect if one doesn't. The points variation from test to re-test would then be >50 points instead of <10 points.
 
Lojo87 said:
Hey Mr Langvatn,
I respect you and your hard work but I think that something is very wrong in your testing. :(
I tried Watford 3-4-3 with West Ham, the best tactic according to your test and the result wasn't good at all so I thought maybe West Ham didn't fit the tactic and I decided to try The Duke AlQaedaSVB tweak with Tottenham, this tactic was at the 2nd place in your testing.
I don't consider myself a good tactician but even with my own poor tactic I was able to compete for the title with Tottenham so I thought that with The Duke AlQaedaSVB I would easily win the league and it was a huge disappointment when I finished the 7th place with it and didn't even manager to get into Euro Cups. :(
I really hope that you'll improve your testing in the future, I wish you good luck.
Click to expand...

At work I don't have the time to actually play the game, but I can perform some tests. Considering that you were frustrated using 343 watford v2 with West Ham, and after my Tottenham test yesterday, today I decided to conduct a West Ham test myself.

The same rules as yesterday:

No transfers.

Quickpicked the team every match.

Only actually played the league matches, in commentary mode.

All the other matches were played using instant result.

Only made substitutions if forced to do so by injury, or if a defender or midfielder got a red, always removed a striker.

Again basically my job was to hit the space bar!

View attachment 107242View attachment 107241View attachment 107240View attachment 107239

As you can see in this test I got trashed a couple of times by the big teams, but even so with proper management, a few buys, I think West Ham could challenge for the premier league title!

My advise: persist, keep morale high playing friendlies against very weak teams, don't get ****** if trashed by a big team, persist, at the end you will get your reward!

I admit it is very difficult to say one tactic is THE BEST, but honestly with 343 watford v2 I feel in control of the game, a control that I did not have in the FM series for some years now!
 
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