Mr Langvatn's Tactic Center for FM17

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Do someone help about 3-4-3 watford system v2 opposite instructions and also wheels of fire 3511 opposite instructions ? I can not find it in the topic.


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We'd just added TTF9 last tactic to the list (Aggressor - Defensive and Attacking versions)!

Stay tuned on Mr. L's site for the results.
 
thinking of useing this with my man u save start of season 4 or 5 is it really as good as the posts on his thred are saying

Added to the list, but we won't change anything from the tactic on the test.
 
Check out the latest test results here (including TFF Aggressor, which proved to be one of the best tactics we have tested this year)
 
Check out the latest test results here (including TFF Aggressor, which proved to be one of the best tactics we have tested this year)

Mrl u think that the table of testing is shows the best tactic...for example 3511 of knap is better of tff aggressor or is close??
 
Mrl u think that the table of testing is shows the best tactic...for example 3511 of knap is better of tff aggressor or is close??

i think they are pretty much the same, only 6 points difference in 180 games. that's nothing.
and if you use the agressor tactic as a set (both attacking and defensive version) when it suits you, you probably get more out of them.
 
Mrl u think that the table of testing is shows the best tactic...for example 3511 of knap is better of tff aggressor or is close??

Judging by the points, there isn't much of a difference, and it's hard to say which one is better for sure. But Knap's 3511 has 45 better goal difference, so it should (has a higher chance to) be a little bit stronger overall.
 
Altough I truly respect your hard work and time invested in this project, I'm starting to doubt the reliability of your testing. Even if you get consistent results if repeating the test with the same tactic over and over again, I think the question is that when playing it doesn't work out the same way, can't really understand why. It's true I got great results with some of the top tactics, mainly with Watford 343 v2, but started playing around with other tactics, and discovered date 442! date 442! 2017_5FCAB3E9-6214-4702-A659-F272B21B4847.fmf‎ (that I simply ignored until now), suggested in this thread 2 top tactics...., and is (for me) THE BEST tactic I've tried this year, no matter if you are the underdog or the top club. It works all around, with the benefit of the gameplay looking much more realistic than most weird shaped tactics. Honestly it's simply impossible that this tactic position in your table reflects it's real value.
 
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Altough I truly respect your hard work and time invested in this project, I'm starting to doubt the reliability of your testing. Even if you get consistant results if repeating the test with the same tactic over and over again, I think the question is that when playing it doesn't work out the same way, can't really understand why. It's true I got great results with some of the top tactics, mainly with Watford 343 v2, but started playing around with other tactics, and discovered date 442! date 442! 2017_5FCAB3E9-6214-4702-A659-F272B21B4847.fmf‎ (that I simply ignored until now), suggested in this thread 2 top tactics...., is for me THE BEST tactic I've tried this year, no matter if you are the underdog or the top club. It works all around, with the benefit of the gameplay looking much more realistic than most weird shaped tactics. Honestly it's simply impossible that this tactic position in your table reflects it's real value.

There are hundreds of people saying "this tactic is the best in FM17", when they are all talking about 100 different tactics. This is why we remove as much randomness as we can from the game when we test.

Also, Date 442 is one of the very best 4-4-2 tactics in our test. If you play in a league where 4-4-2 counters most of the AI's formations, then it could very well be the best one.. Then comes the player types you have available etc, which determines whether Date or for example Franky's 442 is the best one for you.
 
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Altough I truly respect your hard work and time invested in this project, I'm starting to doubt the reliability of your testing.

IMO, the test is quite accurate in showing the potential of a tactic, in fact there is no other testing come close to this but it cannot show the actual effectiveness of a tactic in a particular league because the players, managers, teams and the formations are different from the test environment.

I will just look at the test results as a quick guide to choose a tactic with the formation I like and nothing more.
 
IMO, the test is quite accurate in showing the potential of a tactic, in fact there is no other testing come close to this but it cannot show the actual effectiveness of a tactic in a particular league because the players, managers, teams and the formations are different from the test environment.

I will just look at the test results as a quick guide to choose a tactic with the formation I like and nothing more.

It will of course be more accurate for a specific league if/when we start doing league-specific testing :) The current test environment is a mix of many big/medium clubs in Europe, so it will show which tactics will work well in most leagues. It will not show which tactic is the best one for Premier League or La Liga.

The reason for testing in a mixed environment is simply the issue of time... Testing each tactic in many different leagues would take a lot more time, and this is something we seriously have to consider before we can start doing such a project. We all have jobs and/or school and families, and we don't make any money on the site.
 
There are hundreds of people saying "this tactic is the best in FM17", when they are all talking about 100 different tactics. This is why we remove as much randomness as we can from the game when we test.
Also, Date 442 is one of the very best 4-4-2 tactics in our test. If you play in a league where 4-4-2 counters most of the AI's formations, then it could very well be the best one.. Then comes the player types you have available etc, which determines whether Date or for example Franky's 442 is the best one for you.
We all understand that an average/good tactic will give great results in the proper context. But I used date 442! in several different contexts and it's beautiful, both offensively and defensively, and not considering my personal opinion of being the best until now, it's surely better than most tactics above it in the table. I know that theoretically you have a brilliant and "scientific" aproach to your test, but there's something that simply doesn't match between its results and the real use of the tactics. I've also had mediocre results with some well ranked tactics, that do not work at all on the field. But please don't get me wrong, keep up your work, it's still a great starting point when trying to choose a tactic to use. Cheers
 
We all understand that an average/good tactic will give great results in the proper context. But I used date 442! in several different contexts and it's beautiful, both offensively and defensively, and not considering my personal opinion of being the best until now, it's surely better than most tactics above it in the table. I know that theoretically you have a brilliant and "scientific" aproach to your test, but there's something that simply doesn't match between its results and the real use of the tactics. I've also had mediocre results with some well ranked tactics, that do not work at all on the field. But please don't get me wrong, keep up your work, it's still a great starting point when trying to choose a tactic to use. Cheers

The testing is meant to do just that, be a great starting point, and a place where people can find many good tactics, try them out, and find their own favourite :)

"It's surely better than most tactics above it in the table" can be said by someone about any of the top 50 tactics, because all those are truly great tactics! I'm sure that someone has every single one of the top 50 tactics as their favourite one! The difference between 330 and 270 points isn't as big as someone thinks it is.. Especially since it is impossible to test with 100% accuracy.
 
I think the results are skewed due to opposition instructions being added. Personally, I just go with the assistant manager's recommended OIs as I'm very lazy and just can't be bothered monitoring the opponent's formation throughout the game, then altering OIs several times over 90 minutes.... far too laborious for me, even though I do know there are a few specific OIs that will improve results. Show wide players onto weaker foot and always close down strikers being the two obvious ones that most people use. My point being that two tactics that are equal will show up differently in your test results depending on OIs used or not used so in order to get accurate results for all tactics, the testing should be done without OIs. Only then you'll get to see the TACTIC results and not the OI ASSISTED results.

The other issue being specific types of players that make a tactic tick. For example, in my HUSTLER and DESTROYER tactics, there is a specific requirement for the DLF and CF. DLF needs to be a creative player so high passing and vision and the CF alongside him needs to be quick because the DLF plays through balls for him to latch onto and outpace his marker to get himself a one-on-one with the keeper. Now in your testing, if you're just using generic strikers without the required attributes, the tactic will simply not click and won't deliver the results that it would if you had the right type of players.

Great initiative though :).... just don't think it's possible to achieve truly accurate results.
 
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I think the results are skewed due to opposition instructions being added. Personally, I just go with the assistant manager's recommended OIs as I'm very lazy and just can't be bothered monitoring the opponent's formation throughout the game, then altering OIs several times over 90 minutes.... far too laborious for me, even though I do know there are a few specific OIs that will improve results. Show wide players onto weaker foot and always close down strikers being the two obvious ones that most people use. My point being that two tactics that are equal will show up differently in your test results depending on OIs used or not used so in order to get accurate results for all tactics, the testing should be done without OIs. Only then you'll get to see the TACTIC results and not the OI ASSISTED results.

The other issue being specific types of players that make a tactic tick. For example, in my HUSTLER and DESTROYER tactics, there is a specific requirement for the DLF and CF. DLF needs to be a creative player so high passing and vision and the CF alongside him needs to be quick because the DLF plays through balls for him to latch onto and outpace his marker to get himself a one-on-one with the keeper. Now in your testing, if you're just using generic strikers without the required attributes, the tactic will simply not click and won't deliver the results that it would if you had the right type of players.

Great initiative though :).... just don't think it's possible to achieve truly accurate results.

Hey Franky! I think OI's should be set according to the tactician's wishes, because they are part of the tactic (There should be a way to save them within the tactic file, but this is not an option, yet).

Due to many reasons, we cannot handpick the first 11. One of them being objectivity, another being time limitations, etc. So, yes, you are right in that some tactics will not work as well in our test as if one is following every instruction from the creator.

So, try not to look at only the top 3 in our list, but rather see the list as a great database of good tactics, and find your favourite based on your own experiences :) There are links to the original threads, so people can go there to find the creator's instructions, for example specific attributes for certain roles.
 
Hey Franky! I think OI's should be set according to the tactician's wishes, because they are part of the tactic (There should be a way to save them within the tactic file, but this is not an option, yet).

Due to many reasons, we cannot handpick the first 11. One of them being objectivity, another being time limitations, etc. So, yes, you are right in that some tactics will not work as well in our test as if one is following every instruction from the creator.

So, try not to look at only the top 3 in our list, but rather see the list as a great database of good tactics, and find your favourite based on your own experiences :) There are links to the original threads, so people can go there to find the creator's instructions, for example specific attributes for certain roles.
mrl are u gonna test frankys tactic destroyer???
 
I think the results are skewed due to opposition instructions being added. Personally, I just go with the assistant manager's recommended OIs as I'm very lazy and just can't be bothered monitoring the opponent's formation throughout the game, then altering OIs several times over 90 minutes.... far too laborious for me, even though I do know there are a few specific OIs that will improve results. Show wide players onto weaker foot and always close down strikers being the two obvious ones that most people use. My point being that two tactics that are equal will show up differently in your test results depending on OIs used or not used so in order to get accurate results for all tactics, the testing should be done without OIs. Only then you'll get to see the TACTIC results and not the OI ASSISTED results.

The other issue being specific types of players that make a tactic tick. For example, in my HUSTLER and DESTROYER tactics, there is a specific requirement for the DLF and CF. DLF needs to be a creative player so high passing and vision and the CF alongside him needs to be quick because the DLF plays through balls for him to latch onto and outpace his marker to get himself a one-on-one with the keeper. Now in your testing, if you're just using generic strikers without the required attributes, the tactic will simply not click and won't deliver the results that it would if you had the right type of players.
Great initiative though :).... just don't think it's possible to achieve truly accurate results.

Same here, just too lazy to set OI's and just go with one's suggested by the AM. Actually I only play FM Touch, and the AM sets them automatically, so you either change them or clear them. So that's probably why some good tactics simply don't work in my saves. You are spot on, OI's are a ESSENTIAL factor for a tactic to work properly. An experienced manager (25 years in the bussiness) should know better. :P So this just means that my actual favorite; date 442! is just immune to the influence of whatever OI's my AM sets. So there are tactics that are more OI's sensitive than others.
 
mrl are u gonna test frankys tactic destroyer???
My tactics are unlikely to get good results as they rely on every player except centre backs and keeper to have specific attributes but the testing process uses generic players in all positions.
 
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