Post your frustrations - FM23 edition

[MurderOnZidanesFloor]

Without doubt. I saw someone post a tactic on this site that was a "modern 2-2-6 - Icardi 68 goals". This is just as unreasonable as the fact that a team struggles to do anything in a basic 451. If you can succeed with a "2-2-6" then it shows this game is not a simulation, merely a match engine run in line with the rules of football.

I have seen people look at a reasonable tactic that shouldn't result in getting hammered and pointing out ways to "improve" the person's tactic. But all it is is preference. The difference between a support FB and an attack full back is not such that it should break the match engine and players make ridiculous errors because of it. All they're doing is guiding people on how to exploit the match engine, then pretending they are some kind of tactical wizard.

The simple fact that year on year on year the most successful tactics are called "game breaking" tactics show how ruined this franchise is.

Its the fact that people can preach that football manager is a super realistic simulator that captures real football, whilst also developing a tactic where Mauro Icardi scores SIXTY EIGHT goals which basically tells you all you need to know about this so called "simulation".....you can only laugh cant you

 

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ut I am yet to see any mad errors from the AI. It is always my players who act contrary to the stats they have to end up with a goal.

what it looks like to me is that it doesnt matter for the AI what is going on.
they get a red card in the 22nd minute.
around 65 minute their squad is exhausted yet are passing the ball around like they're Spain.
with a man less they score 4 goals against my 3, not just that but are dominant in the game and nothing i do changes it.
it feels like they're not playing with 10 men or tired.

that is what kills me, things that are effecting my team playing just dont seem to apply to the AI team

The red card thing is one of the most annoying things. You can go from dominating to being dominated so often. When a team gets a red, I'm annoyed because I know that somehow the opposition will become prime Barca straight away. Its not like I change the system, or even go overly attacking. The AI just suddenly find a gear they didn't previously have.

 

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More proof this game is broken. I have an XG of 0.13, as do the team I'm playing. Yet I have had 6 shots inside 10 yards and they have 2 off target shots, one from 25 yards, one from 30 yards. What the actual F? One of these was a worldie of a save from Pickford from 8 yards. This game is cheating us over and over by under scoring our XG so it looks like we're scoring more than we should, when the evidence in front of your eyes shows that isn't true at all. Don't buy this game if you haven't already.

 

[Vanjagl]

Have you ever considered posting this stuff on SI Forums as well? You might get an attention from some FM developer who can hear your frustrations? In any case, feel free to continue.

 

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Have you ever considered posting this stuff on SI Forums as well? You might get an attention from some FM developer who can hear your frustrations? In any case, feel free to continue.

I haven't, no. I mean I have in the past, I've been playing for decades. But this is the first place I've found that doesn't seem to be full of fanboys who don't go "post your tactics" or attack you just for pointing out obvious flaws. I used to use FM Base many years ago, back in the days when the internet was just starting out, but, and I dunno why, I ended up using Reddit or SI Community. Reddit is a dumpster fire of people who you'd think owned stock in the game. Si Community is better, but still full of people who think World Class Defenders who simply cant defend is because of tactical preferences. I have played this game long enough to know how to set up tactics.

For any people dropping in on this thread, I am not "good" at this game. I have had some successes on certain editions. My goal has never been to dominate and win every game, I just want to see a game that doesn't require enormous mistakes from my team for the AI to score. I want to sign a player with 17 finishing and 16 composure etc. who doesn't need 10 shots to score every week.

One thing that drives me absolutely nuts is the people who say "well In real life....". This isn't real life, its a game. In real life you don't have an option of five or six "shouts". IRL you would be able to tell a WB to pass short in certain areas of the pitch, direct in others. IRL you would be able to instruct players on when to shoot, when to pass or when to dribble and when not to. Point being, as a player you are severely limited on the actions you can take, and thus the ME should reflect this. It feels like when you come to playing a match there is stuff going on behind the scenes of the ME that makes things happen that are totally out of your control. One of the most frustrating things is players with the trait of "plays short simple passes" in a system that instructs short passing, with mental stats (composure, decisions etc.) that should allow calm on the ball, simply belting the ball 50 yards to no-one when there are men free to pass to, over and over and over again. It is stuff like this that makes me question what the **** is going on.

Anyway, I'm very sorry for bothering you all with my constant moaning. This game has kept me sane through many bad periods, and its just so annoying that even though its clearly broken, saying so anywhere gets you vilified. Apologies again.

 

[MurderOnZidanesFloor]

Have you ever considered posting this stuff on SI Forums as well? You might get an attention from some FM developer who can hear your frustrations? In any case, feel free to continue.

Are you actually serious??

That forum is an absolute fan boy paradise with their holier than thou moderators and their developers who think theyve developed an absolute masterpiece.

Theres about 3 people who understand how the game works who have spent every waking moment playing it and write articles that are more like novels, lapped up by fanboys who havent a clue about football.

 

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It feels more and more as if people on other forums are gaslighting those who see the issues, song with the developers.

In my last 5 games, three of which I won, two in which I drew, I have conceded 5 goals from 7 shots faced on target. Only Chelsea and Arsenal managed two shots on target. in these games I had 58 shots on target scoring 10 goals.

The goals conceded annoyed the **** out of me so I thought I'd go back and see if the teams I was playing were just clinical teams. So I went through the 10 games either after, or prior to, playing me. I did not include the game against my team. I wanted to find out if they were scoring often from few shots to see if I could find a way to stop it. Below are each teams Shots on target in those 10 games followed by goals scored.

RBL - 53 shots on target, 11 goals
Chelsea - 70 sot, 11 goals
Newcastle - 64 sot, 10 goals
Arsenal - 69 sot, 13 goals
Watford - 42 sot, 11 goals

As you can see, versus me, the AI teams had either 100% or 50% sot to goals ratio, whereby in their previous or proceeding games they had no higher than a 25% sot to goals ratio.

So what is it that makes teams playing me so lethal in front of goal? My keeper has excellent stats. Mostly above 15. I play a balanced 4-1-4-1. Nothing crazy. My centre backs are, statistically and mentally, top notch with 15s all round technically and very high in concentration and composure. three of the goals I conceded were their strikers first goals of the season.

It is beyond confusing as to why this would be the case if, as we are told, the ME does not know the difference between human and AI controlled teams. Arsenal, Chelsea and RBL are bigger teams than mine, teams that you would not expect to sit back and counter, especially as Pep is managing Arsenal. Only Watford are a team I would expect to sit back and hope for the best on the counter.

It would also appear that my sot in these games were in line with what the AI does in games that aren't versus me. My ***** off target are way higher as my forwards are extremely wasteful. Nonetheless, there is something weird going on as soon as teams come up against me.


An update to the sheer lunacy of modern FM, my last three games have seen me concede the first four shots I faced, including a volley from the edge of the box from a player who has one goal in his previous 79 appearances, last scoring exactly 2 in game years ago. How are you meant to succeed in this game if every team you face can score with one or two chances, whilst my team misses time and time again?

 

[Vanjagl]

I haven't, no. I mean I have in the past, I've been playing for decades. But this is the first place I've found that doesn't seem to be full of fanboys who don't go "post your tactics" or attack you just for pointing out obvious flaws. I used to use FM Base many years ago, back in the days when the internet was just starting out, but, and I dunno why, I ended up using Reddit or SI Community. Reddit is a dumpster fire of people who you'd think owned stock in the game. Si Community is better, but still full of people who think World Class Defenders who simply cant defend is because of tactical preferences. I have played this game long enough to know how to set up tactics.

For any people dropping in on this thread, I am not "good" at this game. I have had some successes on certain editions. My goal has never been to dominate and win every game, I just want to see a game that doesn't require enormous mistakes from my team for the AI to score. I want to sign a player with 17 finishing and 16 composure etc. who doesn't need 10 shots to score every week.

One thing that drives me absolutely nuts is the people who say "well In real life....". This isn't real life, its a game. In real life you don't have an option of five or six "shouts". IRL you would be able to tell a WB to pass short in certain areas of the pitch, direct in others. IRL you would be able to instruct players on when to shoot, when to pass or when to dribble and when not to. Point being, as a player you are severely limited on the actions you can take, and thus the ME should reflect this. It feels like when you come to playing a match there is stuff going on behind the scenes of the ME that makes things happen that are totally out of your control. One of the most frustrating things is players with the trait of "plays short simple passes" in a system that instructs short passing, with mental stats (composure, decisions etc.) that should allow calm on the ball, simply belting the ball 50 yards to no-one when there are men free to pass to, over and over and over again. It is stuff like this that makes me question what the **** is going on.

Anyway, I'm very sorry for bothering you all with my constant moaning. This game has kept me sane through many bad periods, and its just so annoying that even though its clearly broken, saying so anywhere gets you vilified. Apologies again.

Are you actually serious??

That forum is an absolute fan boy paradise with their holier than thou moderators and their developers who think theyve developed an absolute masterpiece.

Theres about 3 people who understand how the game works who have spent every waking moment playing it and write articles that are more like novels, lapped up by fanboys who havent a clue about football.

I'd agree that FM changed to appeal to the wider masses now, it's simplified and easier for the beginners - which doesn't need to be a bad thing. However, there are some glaring issues with the match engine that's been around ever since they redesigned it few years ago. I've been reluctant to buy new version until the winter update came. Then the game becomes good for me, when they iron all (well, some of) the issues.

From my experience of dealing with Miles and his crew, they are lovely people who are willing to help. I'd like to say more, but I can't.
However, it is really lazy to decline even an attempt to post there because someone might tackle your opinion. If you have rock solid evidence that something is wrong, and you present it correctly, the more people see it, the more will stand on your side. You might even have a real chance of changing something, which is good because you're passionate about it.

 

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I'd agree that FM changed to appeal to the wider masses now, it's simplified and easier for the beginners - which doesn't need to be a bad thing. However, there are some glaring issues with the match engine that's been around ever since they redesigned it few years ago. I've been reluctant to buy new version until the winter update came. Then the game becomes good for me, when they iron all (well, some of) the issues.

From my experience of dealing with Miles and his crew, they are lovely people who are willing to help. I'd like to say more, but I can't.
However, it is really lazy to decline even an attempt to post there because someone might tackle your opinion. If you have rock solid evidence that something is wrong, and you present it correctly, the more people see it, the more will stand on your side. You might even have a real chance of changing something, which is good because you're passionate about it.

I'm sorry you feel me lazy, but I disagree that that is the case (at least in this regard). There is a difference between someone cordially disagreeing with your opinion, and the way you are talked to on the Si Community forums if you try and point out blatant flaws in the ME. It is disheartening to be continually talked down to, as if a naughty child, for highlighting errors in the game, errors that have been present for quite some time and pointed out frequently.

I am more than happy to discuss what I see, but people cannot resist name calling, and I don't want to have to deal with every other thread notification I receive bein full of snide comments.

It is pretty obvious that the latest game has enormous flaws, but instead of pointing these out, people have reverted to the "it's your tactic" argument they always use whilst creating bizarre systems that seve only to beat the ME, rather than simulate football. It's is, somewhat Ironically, mostly people who download tactics that "work" spouting the worst of the faux abusive sentiment (you can tell this because they proudly tell you).

Again, apologies if you feel my approach is lazy.

 

[Maaaaaardy]

This ******* game drives me INSANE. I can't not win at home and can't do ******* ANYTHING away from home. And i'm Arsenal! Not like I am a terrible side, this **** is so ******* annoying, I have tried EVERYTHING!

 

[Vanjagl]

I'm sorry you feel me lazy, but I disagree that that is the case (at least in this regard). There is a difference between someone cordially disagreeing with your opinion, and the way you are talked to on the Si Community forums if you try and point out blatant flaws in the ME. It is disheartening to be continually talked down to, as if a naughty child, for highlighting errors in the game, errors that have been present for quite some time and pointed out frequently.

I am more than happy to discuss what I see, but people cannot resist name calling, and I don't want to have to deal with every other thread notification I receive bein full of snide comments.

It is pretty obvious that the latest game has enormous flaws, but instead of pointing these out, people have reverted to the "it's your tactic" argument they always use whilst creating bizarre systems that seve only to beat the ME, rather than simulate football. It's is, somewhat Ironically, mostly people who download tactics that "work" spouting the worst of the faux abusive sentiment (you can tell this because they proudly tell you).

Again, apologies if you feel my approach is lazy.

Fair enough if you feel that way. I can promise there won't be any of that **** here. Feel free to discuss anything as long as it's civil.

 

[Vanjagl]

Continuing with the topic, I've recently praised a player for being in a good form ( rating above 7.5), and he disagreed with me, saying he's been playing average. Then I continue saying I'm looking forward to see him playing even better, but he didn't like our convo and now is ****** at me with the way I treated him.

https://imgur.com/dohzDU7

 

[MurderOnZidanesFloor]

I'd agree that FM changed to appeal to the wider masses now, it's simplified and easier for the beginners - which doesn't need to be a bad thing. However, there are some glaring issues with the match engine that's been around ever since they redesigned it few years ago. I've been reluctant to buy new version until the winter update came. Then the game becomes good for me, when they iron all (well, some of) the issues.

From my experience of dealing with Miles and his crew, they are lovely people who are willing to help. I'd like to say more, but I can't.
However, it is really lazy to decline even an attempt to post there because someone might tackle your opinion. If you have rock solid evidence that something is wrong, and you present it correctly, the more people see it, the more will stand on your side. You might even have a real chance of changing something, which is good because you're passionate about it.

I politely disagree with almost everything you have written.

You honestly think this confused mess of a game has been "simplified" (in your words) for beginners? You think that trawling through pages of scout reports and data, only for your players to completely ignore all of that anyway is "simple"? You think loading preset tactics instructions that contain LOADS of instructions, and then not being able to work out whats going wrong is simple? I have to beg to differ.

The "crew" are lovely? are you having a laugh? its exactly like the above poster said, if you try and question the game youll get heckled every post.

SOME people understand how to play the game. The game itself is rubbish, and they have an understanding of how to succeed on a rubbish game. That doesnt make them some sort of knowledgeable expert.

How many people do you think DONT post on forums who think the game is rubbish, it must be tens of thousands who all see the same issues and cant pick tactics that resemble anything like they want them to be.

Its EXACTLY how the above poster described it. It will always come down to "its your tactic" on the forums. And yet people sit there winning the game with 7 attack duties 3 shadow strikers and something thats nothing to do with football.

The game is useless.

 

[Vanjagl]

I politely disagree with almost everything you have written.

You honestly think this confused mess of a game has been "simplified" (in your words) for beginners? You think that trawling through pages of scout reports and data, only for your players to completely ignore all of that anyway is "simple"? You think loading preset tactics instructions that contain LOADS of instructions, and then not being able to work out whats going wrong is simple? I have to beg to differ.

The "crew" are lovely? are you having a laugh? its exactly like the above poster said, if you try and question the game youll get heckled every post.

SOME people understand how to play the game. The game itself is rubbish, and they have an understanding of how to succeed on a rubbish game. That doesnt make them some sort of knowledgeable expert.

How many people do you think DONT post on forums who think the game is rubbish, it must be tens of thousands who all see the same issues and cant pick tactics that resemble anything like they want them to be.

Its EXACTLY how the above poster described it. It will always come down to "its your tactic" on the forums. And yet people sit there winning the game with 7 attack duties 3 shadow strikers and something thats nothing to do with football.

The game is useless.

For me, yes. Long time ago you had to micromanage every player in your tactic. You could set up them in any way you can through player instruction. They removed a lot of that because it was too complicated for the new players.
Using data hub is a nice cosmetic feature, nothing more. You almost get nothing from it and I honestly find it useless and don't use it at all.

Game is just that, a game. Runs on codes and algorithms. You beat the game by creating a tactic that will exploit the ME. That's how it is, sadly. Game itself does not learn, does not adapt. When you think about it, it's really a simple game once you learn how it works.

Now the issue is some people, like you I assume, are not comfortable with it, which is fine. If you're not having fun while playing a game, then whats even the point of it?

Football Manager might be the most realistic football simulation, but it's far from realistic. Anyway, the more of you post that you don't like the game, the sooner will they change something.

 

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I politely disagree with almost everything you have written.

You honestly think this confused mess of a game has been "simplified" (in your words) for beginners? You think that trawling through pages of scout reports and data, only for your players to completely ignore all of that anyway is "simple"? You think loading preset tactics instructions that contain LOADS of instructions, and then not being able to work out whats going wrong is simple? I have to beg to differ.

The "crew" are lovely? are you having a laugh? its exactly like the above poster said, if you try and question the game youll get heckled every post.

SOME people understand how to play the game. The game itself is rubbish, and they have an understanding of how to succeed on a rubbish game. That doesnt make them some sort of knowledgeable expert.

How many people do you think DONT post on forums who think the game is rubbish, it must be tens of thousands who all see the same issues and cant pick tactics that resemble anything like they want them to be.

Its EXACTLY how the above poster described it. It will always come down to "its your tactic" on the forums. And yet people sit there winning the game with 7 attack duties 3 shadow strikers and something thats nothing to do with football.

The game is useless.

I think in some ways it has been simplified, in that there are now presets which are passable and might get you to grips with the game. But other than that, if you want to try and actually make and implement a system, it's more difficult than ever.

I have seen multiple people say that if you want to keep possession you should set passing to "take more risks". The argument being that the players will try riskier passes in an attempt to keep possession. Meanwhile the game specifically says "less risky" passing is suitable for teams hoping to keep possession. So which is it? That isn't simple.

Having to select "shoot less often" on nearly all attack duties to have more shots because the game does not programme players with the tiniest bit of intelligence, is not simple.

The Set Piece creator, and how it functions in the ME is utterly bewildering, not simple. And within this, how and when the tactics start to take over from the set piece creator is utterly confusing. It's not a simple thing to work out at exactly what point and trigger someone will just dart back to their assigned position.

Working out how and why you can dominate and lose is no simple feat, especially as there are a load of instructions that seem to contradict each other and if you happen to have some instructions the ME doesn't like, you will end up with ridiculous mistakes. But it is really difficult to know what instructions work and what don't.

Ultimately this game is way more finding out what the match engine does and does not like, rather than trying to implement any particular style, and the game is way worse for that. I agree with the poster above that before you had to micro manage via player instructions, but this is what the game should be like as this is what football is like. There aren't that many positions used by actual teams, just tweaks in how they ask each player to play within those positions. Having set up so a very narrow set of instructions work is stupid and has lead people to create unidentifiable tactics to break the ME and claim themselves as tactical wizards, when in fact, they're just good at breaking the ME.

 

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I'm interested to know what people think is causing the ME to essentially cheat.

I recently went back to FM21, but the same things happened so back to FM23, at least the players are up to date.

But time and time and time again, attributes do not seem to have any bearing on the game whatsoever. I just lost to Derby in a cup replay 1-2. Obviously their goals came from their only two shots on target and went through with an XG of 0.31 versus my XG of 2.42. Now obviously this happens in real games, but this isn't a real game. I had far better chances, I have far better players. Both our teams are doing well in the league (as I reloaded my game as of the last match in the demo) and my morale is great. And yet they won the game. Their first goal was fairly decent. I'd have expected my LB to be goal side of the player that scored, but I can hack this. There second goal was a glaring error from my CM who failed to pass to one of my team, they broke and scored.

My issue comes from the fact that multiple times in this game we broke and my striker - with way better stats and more goals than they're striker in a harder league - kept missing. So what is running the ME to throw up these kinds of results? In real life these types of results do happen, yet I'd argue its far rarer than we see in FM, but this isn't real life. We can't blame human error. And we see this stuff all the time in FM where the AI becomes insanely clinical, or human controlled defenders just don't know how to defend all of a sudden. If it's not running off attributes, morale or game stats, what exactly is making this happen? There has to be something that decides why the AI gets all the breaks because this is just algorithms.

When I was back playing FM21, it happened almost every game. Almost every game I would control completely, and yet Moukoko couldn't score from any angle. Romero and Fofana would then just not bother to mark a player who would then score.

All I wanna know is if Si have baked in these types of games to make it more challenging. If you look anywhere else on the internet, you will here two things, "it's your tactics" or "this happens in real life". If it truly is tactics, it's not because your tactics are necessarily bad. If you have a tactic whereby you dominate, create plenty of quality chances in the box and are undone by a player error, that is not your tactic. If the "IRL" argument is correct, then what exactly is happening to replicate real life because it cannot be anything we can see. On a consistent basis the AI will always be more clinical, they're defenders will always be perfectly positioned or their keeper will be superman. That cannot be the case if what we know about attributes is true.

I think it's time SI were honest and told us what was going on. Personally I'd probably support them making human controlled teams do stupid **** as the ME is generally to easy to dominate, it's the being told it must be to do with how your playing the game that is annoying, because I'm out of ideas of how to get my players to score and defend properly. In all my years of playing FM I've never spent so long just rage quitting because no matter how well I can see my team playing, in the key areas I am constantly screwed.

 

[Mafxfia]

haha, the shoot less often instructions, (and Work Ball into Box)
I had to put it on everyone except for my 2 forwards in a 442 (4222)
the amount of wasted shots from ridiculous positions has gone down drastically.
of course, I'm now not scoring the insane goals, but at least the shots I'm taking and the crosses into the box are better

Get Stuck in doesn't produce as many cards which is nice but seems to be necessary to get decent pressure,
I tried it through opposition instructions, but couldn't get it sorted.

I still get the 1/2 shot on goal from the AI which leads to a goal but I now feel I can control the flow better.

 

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Standard Leige in Pre season. First two shots they scored. Both were straight at the keeper. The first one was literally straight at the keeper from 39 yards from a player with 7 for long shots. The second goal my DM literally changed direction mid run to get out of the way of their player.

How did a team with 25% of the ball, completing only 75% of their passes, manage 11 shots? Because the match engine on this game is broken. Half of those 11 shots came directly from my players simply messing up. Long ball over the top and my CB under no pressure just misses the ball. My box to box midfielder trying to do skills in his own half instead of just passing the ball as my instructions demand. My DLP simply not pressing at all despite my instructions. All giving the AI freedom to shoot at will.

One of my goals was straight at their keeper which I would have saved and I'm a tiny person!

My XG of 1.97 makes no sense. My CB had a free header from 12 yards and got an XG of 0.01. what the ****?

This game is fully broken. Why can't defenders defend? Why can't keepers save shots that are straight at them?! Why is my teams XG so low? How does the AI always be so clinical? Why do attributes mean literally nothing?

 

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More utter nonsense from this disgrace of a game. 0-3 down at home to Norwich. 4 shots on target. First goal a 35 harder from Josh Sargent (long shots 10). Second goal Tmiscic slaloming through five stationery players before scoring from pretty much the byline with a **** straight at the keeper. Third goal could be the most ridiculous goal I've ever seen conceded. Cross comes in, my CB smashes a volley, and I mean smashes, the ball straight at my full back, the ball falls back to him and instead of clearing to space he lobs a header straight to the Norwich striker. For some reason my keeper is still on the ground. All this whilst I had 0 shots after 70 minutes. At home. To Norwich.

I'd won my first league game away Leicester 1-3.

This game is utter garbage. Utter garbage. What an absolute disgrace of a game. Players do not follow instructions. I went direct because players have zero intelligence when short passing is on, and just launch random long balls.nnkw I'm more direct, all they do is knock the ball around short. Why?

SI should be ashamed.

 

[Mafxfia]

I mean, i won and convincingly.
But ****, 4 shots, 3 on target, 3 goals.
XG 0.69