Raikan007's Tactical discussion & help thread

Raikan007

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Feb 6, 2009
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Raikan007's Tactical discussion & help thread:



Good day to you all. This thread is for anyone to discuss their tactics, what they want to do with their own tactics, posting their best results for possession or CCC's in competitive matches to get feedback or tips on how to replicate certain things in their own tactics.

I will also try and offer assistance in creating your own tactics or anything regarding tactics you would like to know. This will also allow tacticians to discuss their new tactics and pick up tips for their own tactics and for them to help new and budding tacticians!

[HR][/HR]
Manchester United Guide

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/87772-raikan007s-possession-tactic-discussion-creation-centre-hints-tips.html

Possession/Passing:



Feel free to ask anything you would like advice on regarding tactics here :)



 
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Jul 26, 2009
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hi i am using your [h=2]Pure Perfection™ CCC Beta/Demo tactic with rochdale and i am just at the start of January in first place with media prediction 22nd[/h]
 

gunnerjames

Member
Jul 18, 2010
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0
Raikan007's Tactical discussion & help thread:



Good day to you all. This thread is for anyone to discuss their tactics, what they want to do with their own tactics, posting their best results for possession or CCC's in competitive matches to get feedback or tips on how to replicate certain things in their own tactics.

I will also try and offer assistance in creating your own tactics or anything regarding tactics you would like to know. This will also allow tacticians to discuss their new tactics and pick up tips for their own tactics and for them to help new and budding tacticians!

[HR][/HR]
I am currently testing my new 4-4-2 tactic for when the full game comes out, I was unbeaten with United in the Demo, tried with Barca also top of the league and top of the group in ECL (went on holiday though, plus I don't count using Barca in making/testing tactics, I just wanted to see what happened)

Manchester United Guide & tactic download:


I decided to test it in a new league (one that I have not managed in for years) the Eredevisie with Az Alkmaar (tipped to finish in 6th place)

These were the two best results CCC's and possession/passing, one for United and one now for Az :)

Possession/Passing:

View attachment 198226


CCC's"



Raikon are you using a flat 442 or 424 with advance wingers. I am thinking of setting up a 442 with Arsenal and need some help with the strikers combination and midfield two. I am not sure how to play Alex Song and Arteta, Ramsey in a FLAT 442 formation. Also unsure if the wingers should cut inside in a flat 442 or hug touchline.

I hope you can help mate
 

Subtle

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Mar 27, 2011
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Hi Raikan,

I'm wondering how I would go about implementing a double pivot in FM2012, moreover how I would go about putting one into a 4-6-0 formation. The way we line up at the moment is in a sort of 4-5-1 with the ST withdrawn into an AM Treq, an Inside Forward, a Winger, 2 Box to Box midfielders and a DM.

I'm trying to get the box to box players (Cahill and Fellaini) to play a very fluid double pivot: I want one to hold his position in Midfield and shield the Defence whilst the other makes overlapping runs to support my forwards. However, I want both players to be capable of this, I want Cahill to see the ball going down the right and think: "right, i'm going to help with that" whilst still being able to see the ball going left and say: "Fellaini will go forward, I'll stay here"

The issues I've had so far are as follows:
- If the ball falls to a DM or a CB in a high defensive line, both of my BBMs often go close him down. This generally forces my own DM to push into Midfield and lets AMs in the gap.
- I semi rectified this by playing them as an unbalanced pivot: with Cahill the more aggressive and Fellaini the deep lying passer who plays more through balls and collects the ball for longshots. However, I rarely see Fellaini go forward any more and I feel like I'm missing out by playing a simpler system
- A lot of the time they're willing to overlap to a point, but then they stop running. So Fellaini on the left might help Drenthe and Baines work a ball to 3/4 of the way up the pitch, then he'll pull back. The way we're playing emphasises a lot of passing triangles so having them drop back really kills off alot of my attacks and leaves me stranded by the touchline.

Thanks in advance.
 

Raikan007

Member
Feb 6, 2009
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Raikon are you using a flat 442 or 424 with advance wingers. I am thinking of setting up a 442 with Arsenal and need some help with the strikers combination and midfield two. I am not sure how to play Alex Song and Arteta, Ramsey in a FLAT 442 formation. Also unsure if the wingers should cut inside in a flat 442 or hug touchline.

I hope you can help mate
4-4-2 advanced wingers :)

flat 4-4-2 need to hug touchline or move into channels which will ensure they do both! (cut inside or hug touchline) use RVP and Walcott, DLF - Support for RVP and Poacher for Walcott, make him run with ball often and run from deep oten! no freedom, no long shots, short passing and crossing sometimes from byline! RVP must be made playmaker and through balls often and long shots sometimes :)

for the Cm's suggest using Song as a Cm - defend/support and Arteta as Adv Playmaker - attack or Dlp! I use two Cm's on support, you are more than welcome to incorporate these roles into your tactic :)

I suggest using:

RVP role: (Rooney role)
View attachment 198488

Cm roles: (Michael Carrick role)
View attachment 198489

Wingers:
(Young role)
View attachment 198487
 

Raikan007

Member
Feb 6, 2009
20,598
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36
Hi Raikan,

I'm wondering how I would go about implementing a double pivot in FM2012, moreover how I would go about putting one into a 4-6-0 formation. The way we line up at the moment is in a sort of 4-5-1 with the ST withdrawn into an AM Treq, an Inside Forward, a Winger, 2 Box to Box midfielders and a DM.

I'm trying to get the box to box players (Cahill and Fellaini) to play a very fluid double pivot: I want one to hold his position in Midfield and shield the Defence whilst the other makes overlapping runs to support my forwards. However, I want both players to be capable of this, I want Cahill to see the ball going down the right and think: "right, i'm going to help with that" whilst still being able to see the ball going left and say: "Fellaini will go forward, I'll stay here"

The issues I've had so far are as follows:
- If the ball falls to a DM or a CB in a high defensive line, both of my BBMs often go close him down. This generally forces my own DM to push into Midfield and lets AMs in the gap.
- I semi rectified this by playing them as an unbalanced pivot: with Cahill the more aggressive and Fellaini the deep lying passer who plays more through balls and collects the ball for longshots. However, I rarely see Fellaini go forward any more and I feel like I'm missing out by playing a simpler system
- A lot of the time they're willing to overlap to a point, but then they stop running. So Fellaini on the left might help Drenthe and Baines work a ball to 3/4 of the way up the pitch, then he'll pull back. The way we're playing emphasises a lot of passing triangles so having them drop back really kills off alot of my attacks and leaves me stranded by the touchline.

Thanks in advance.
this is a very complicated approach mate, if you want to ensure both players do the overlapping runs then just ask them to swap positions as you want 1 to always stay back and the other to forward! why not have both of the Cm's doing the overlapping runs (get forward) and have the DM playing as the dlp while killing off attacks! the Cm's can also be given a defensive approach when not in possession of the ball asking the to close down the whole pitch and tight man marking, fitness and stamina will need to be high if this is done as they will tire quickly! you can also ask your Fb's to overlap the wingers once they have cut in to create an overload in the final 3rd while your two Cb's and Dm sit back with your one defensive/dlp Cm who has not ventured forward!

You do need to a focal point of attack so playing without a striker is not recommended! The inside forwards need a player to link up with and play in! otherwise you are just having them 1 faceted attack and asking too much of them as your main scorers which I think you may be wanting! try get a more balanced approach!

The reason why your Cm's pull back on attack is you have him set as the Dlp type player, so he is already out of his "position" if you play very fluid or fluid this can be fixed as they will perform more than what you ask them too!

You are more than welcome to post your Fm12 tactic and I can take a look at it for you :)

I hope this helps a bit but I cannot help you much more verbally as there are many many things to incorporate into the tactic :)
 

Jimmy_x_

Member
Jun 14, 2009
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Hey Raikan,

Glad to see this sort of thread from you, as it really helps users like me who have a lot of tactical ideas but don't know how to implement them.

Regarding an attacking 442 ie. advanced wingers.

Would it be viable to have the duty of my cm's as defend and attack, or should this be defend and support, seeing as my wingers are advanced? (Probs with the roles of ball winning mid and adv playmaker)

What would be the result of having both my cm's holding up the ball? so they play more xavi and iniesta esque?

Also should my amr/aml be set to tight marking? or should i just leave the tight marking for the full backs?

cheers bud!
 

Raikan007

Member
Feb 6, 2009
20,598
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36
Hey Raikan,

Glad to see this sort of thread from you, as it really helps users like me who have a lot of tactical ideas but don't know how to implement them.

Regarding an attacking 442 ie. advanced wingers.

Would it be viable to have the duty of my cm's as defend and attack, or should this be defend and support, seeing as my wingers are advanced? (Probs with the roles of ball winning mid and adv playmaker)

What would be the result of having both my cm's holding up the ball? so they play more xavi and iniesta esque?

Also should my amr/aml be set to tight marking? or should i just leave the tight marking for the full backs?

cheers bud!
hey bud, cheers man, glad to help where I can :)

I like to use support and support, but defend and support is perfect as well! depending on how much you will rely on your advanced 4 players to create and score! I like using support on mostly every position I can! my wingers are set to support and so are both my cm's and the playmaker striker!

yes, however they do not move into channels and look for open space, they are more like Michael Carrick! having your Cm's move into channels is quite dangerous on defence as if one of them are dipossed they are out of position most of the time and the oppossition can take advantage of that quickly!

I have my wingers defend as well, I set them to tight man mark and close down 3/4 of the pitch when not in possession!

It also depends on the "type"of football you want to play :)

feel free to ask anything else mate, if you want I can post my wingers/cm's PI's (Young role and Carrick role) for you to see and implement on your own tactic :)
 

izzice777

Member
Nov 25, 2008
393
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0
Hey Raikan,

Could you be very kind ;) to take a look at my tactic..

View attachment 198568 View attachment 198569

My attempt is to win.. hahaha.. Kidding

Playing with Tottenham, ending demo top of EPL with highest scoring team and lowest conceded.
My attempt is to play attractive attacking football. Both left side players n right FB hug touchline, right winger as IF cut into middle. DLF drop into space and link with ADV Playmaker, while AF cut into channel.

However there are several tweaks i like to do, but unsure how (tried using 3d engine, but pc can't support it)..

1 - My right FB is hugging touchline on support duty. Can i change its role to attack (to cover the area up front where my IF cut into middle) and play more like alves or ashley cole..? And how to do it (FB or WB)? I'm thinking that my BWM with defend duty will cover the area left by the FB, will him or not?

2 - I conceded a lot of CCC, but opponent didn't score. Why and how to lessen it?

3 - Any other opinions on my tactic appreciated.. LOL
 
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Raikan007

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Feb 6, 2009
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1) dont make the fullbacks hug the line, that is why you are conceding a lot of CCC's, have them set to tight marking/man so they will track back in field to double up pressure with your cb's, dont change to attack as your wingers are too attacking already, if you had to make them more like playmakers then you could and use shouts like "look for overlap" and make the defenders cross from the byline to ensure they overlap! but that is risky and can result in counter attacks. BWM yes and no, depends on the PI's you have assigned him.. but still it will be 3 on defence at most! which is too little in my opinion

2) close them down more, what team instructions are you using? I use press more/zonal :) with individual settings for closing down and marking for different players/positions

3) Looks good :) how is RVD doing as the IF? do you not feel they are coming down the right (their left) alot on attacks which lead to the CCC's? Dont play offside trap you are not playing high enough up field and and float your crosses in to centre (change all wingers/fb's to cross aim centre) you have 2 big strikers who are good in the air
 

Jimmy_x_

Member
Jun 14, 2009
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Thanks for the quick reply.

1. In that case i will probably play fletcher as my ball winning mid (defend) and I will look to buy a playmaker to replace anderson and play him as an advanced playmaker (support). Would it be a bad idea to use an advanced playmaker (support) with a box to box mid (support)? Will these have a negative effect on the defensive stability of my midfield?

2.In response to your answer about "holding up the ball" it think it would probably be better then to have only my more defensive player holding up the ball and allow my playmaker to distribute? Also, what would be the effect of asking both my cm's to mark tightly?

3.I want my wingers to be very much all out attacking and only tracking back as far as the half way. I want their primary focus to be cutting in and playing through balls to the strikers or going through the cb-fb chanell and making a cross into the strikers. I think i will set them to make through balls often, long shots rarely and crosses sometimes. How does the run from deep option work if i want my wingers to play as i described, fully committing to the attack but tracking back enough so i am not exposed on the wings? Also move into channells vs cut inside?

I understand this should be my tactical approach. However i have not yet started creating my tactic. Alot of the questions i am asking is just so i understand what each of the different options does in the game. When i know what each option does i can plan how i want my team to play and make a tactic of it in the full game :)

Thanks for your help mate. This one was a long read :)
 

Raikan007

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Feb 6, 2009
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1) that may be too much going forward, I have used it before and have done well, however I still feel as though you already have 4 players on attack, I the Cm's need to be a solid basis for defence and attack and having them venture to far upfield will negate their defensive roles! You can play a bwm - defend/support (Fletcher) and a more attacking Cm - Support (Carrick/Cleverley/Anderson) who wont go out on attack but will link the attacking players to the midfield :)

this is the Carrick role I have made, it works extremely well, of course I dont want my mids scoring goal after goal, its not their job, their job is to control the midfield and intercept attacks and lay off the ball to the more attacking wingers/strikers to make something happen (and trust me, I have seen Carrick make some fantasically incredible passes like he does IRL as well)

View attachment 198579

2) yeah, I have both of my Cm's holding up the ball, both of my cm's are both in the "Carrick" role above, one is just has a little bit extra creative freedom and several more clicks to attack and thats it! yeah, pretty much what you said, have the dm type sitting back deeper (use similar PI"s to above but set through balls to never so all he does will jsut win the ball and look to lay it off to your more creative cm)

3) yeah exactly that, have their run from deep to often :) and closing down to halfway on the dot, dont make them tight mark and set them to zonal :)

that is why I made this thread :) good luck mate!

its a pleasure by the way
 

izzice777

Member
Nov 25, 2008
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1) dont make the fullbacks hug the line, that is why you are conceding a lot of CCC's, have them set to tight marking/man so they will track back in field to double up pressure with your cb's, dont change to attack as your wingers are too attacking already, if you had to make them more like playmakers then you could and use shouts like "look for overlap" and make the defenders cross from the byline to ensure they overlap! but that is risky and can result in counter attacks. BWM yes and no, depends on the PI's you have assigned him.. but still it will be 3 on defence at most! which is too little in my opinion

2) close them down more, what team instructions are you using? I use press more/zonal :) with individual settings for closing down and marking for different players/positions

3) Looks good :) how is RVD doing as the IF? do you not feel they are coming down the right (their left) alot on attacks which lead to the CCC's? Dont play offside trap you are not playing high enough up field and and float your crosses in to centre (change all wingers/fb's to cross aim centre) you have 2 big strikers who are good in the air
1 - FB hug touchline, that's why... Will change it. BWM instruction - is it ok?
View attachment 198592

2 - I use press more, man. Only BWM is zonal. Others mostly default.

3 - RVD as IF stats, 12 games, 6 goals, 6 assists n 3 mom. Avg rating 7.54. Offside trap n crosses will change.

Thanks Raikan..
 

Raikan007

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Feb 6, 2009
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Can't understand what u mean by that..
I thought that that may be your weak area where the opossition are attacking through, where most of their attacks are being started etc :) as RVD is not the best on defence as well as being so far up, he wont be getting back leaving your Fb and possibly one Cm left to defend :)

see where the opposition are making their attacks through so you can see where the problem is on your defence, maybe one of your cm's have get forward or some funny PPM that counter acts their positional/role you have given them or maybe you have set them a wrong instruction etc :)

the best is to watch a game vs a good/equal team in full to see certain things you miss when watching only on key or commentary :)
 

izzice777

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Nov 25, 2008
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Thanks, will watch my previous games later.. Will let u know.. Cheers n thanks..

---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

Hi, done watching several games which i concede a lot of CCC. Not a right side problem though, but my defenders marking are really really bad. Balls n opponent got past quite easily. I use tight man marking for all my 4 defenders, zonal marking for my BWM, and overall man marking for the rest..

Should i use zonal instead.? Any particular instruction for defenders.?
 

rabd1988

Member
Oct 18, 2011
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help

Hi mate,

any help you cloud give would be much appriciated. i am in a season with arsenal playing a 4114 formation with wingers. i signed oscar cardozo beacase his stats are amazing, only problem is he ist scoring as much as his stats suggest he should. his suggested role from my coaches is deep lying foward attack duty, i dont think his stats suit this role and when RVP is back from injury he will be playing the DLF role. what role would you suggest for cardozo ? should he be set to in the team settings as target man ?

also how wide do you think my team should be playing with a an anchorman defend and a CM support in the middle with 2 wingers.


thanks

Rob
 
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