Ronaldo or Messi?

[DMF]

But the majority of Pele's goals came whilst he was playing in the Brazilian league, one which tbh is not that great. Along with the MLS.



Winning world cups isn't a great argument to be honest, there are some truly world class players that have never won a world cup.



And he scored so many goals because he played in such an amazing team, a la Messi. Pele played with the likes of Garrincha, Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho and Rivelino etc...

IMO, it's a bit foolish to use one argument to defend Pele, (scoring goals) but to completely disregard the same one when talking about Messi. They both play in exceptional teams.

By quoting like that, you take it all out of context. Messi is scoring a bagful of goals in possibly the best team ever. Ronaldo is scoring just as many goals in a strong team, but nowhere near as strong a team.

Ronaldo has scored goals in 2 strong teams, but neither was as strong as the Barcelona team. Ronaldo is Real Madrid's sole goalscorer, he is the man they look to for goals. Messi isn't for Barcelona. They have Iniesta, Pedro, Villa, Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves, in fact Javier Mascherano is the only outfield player not to have scored this season for Barcelona.

Pele carried a minor team (Santos) to everything and scored over 1200 goals in his career, and even in a team of incredible players he stood out and carried them to title after title, ala Ronaldo. Messi isn't carrying Barcelona to titles because they would be just as successful without him IMO. Of course they wouldn't be as good, but they would still be one of the best teams in the world.

Pele also did everything at International level. 77 goals in 90 games is absolutely incredible. Messi's international record is poor considering everything else and Ronaldo's is pretty good (not excellent, but decent).

It's completely different anyway..

 

[sunilvk7]

IMO, it's a bit foolish to use one argument to defend Pele, (scoring goals) but to completely disregard the same one when talking about Messi. They both play in exceptional teams.

Alex, when you are talking about all time greats, just think about this

Pele good, Maradona Better. George Best. :wub:

 

[stewie23]

both amazing footballers, nit much between them, they both bring their own cards to the table, i would pick messi though because ronaldo is a *****

 

[curtis290]

By quoting like that, you take it all out of context. Messi is scoring a bagful of goals in possibly the best team ever. Ronaldo is scoring just as many goals in a strong team, but nowhere near as strong a team.

Ronaldo has scored goals in 2 strong teams, but neither was as strong as the Barcelona team. Ronaldo is Real Madrid's sole goalscorer, he is the man they look to for goals. Messi isn't for Barcelona. They have Iniesta, Pedro, Villa, Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves, in fact Javier Mascherano is the only outfield player not to have scored this season for Barcelona.

Pele carried a minor team (Santos) to everything and scored over 1200 goals in his career, and even in a team of incredible players he stood out and carried them to title after title, ala Ronaldo. Messi isn't carrying Barcelona to titles because they would be just as successful without him IMO. Of course they wouldn't be as good, but they would still be one of the best teams in the world.

Pele also did everything at International level. 77 goals in 90 games is absolutely incredible. Messi's international record is poor considering everything else and Ronaldo's is pretty good (not excellent, but decent).

It's completely different anyway..

The game was way different back then, so it really doesn't make sense to compare the two (especially in terms of internationals). However, one could easily argue that since Pele was the best player on his team and obvious first choice for his teammates to give the ball to, he would have more goals than Messi, who is surrounded by other scoring options. Messi's goal rate has been unreal, and he scores more goals than CR, even though CR is definitely the first goalscoring option for his team and is much more "selfish" than Messi (in terms of trying to score goals for himself, which makes sense because he's his team's best player). Messi is more of a creator (partially shown by having way more assists than Ronaldo). But he also scores more goals too. He is simply responsible for more offensive production than Ronaldo is.

I don't think one can definitely declare that Messi is the best in the world, but I certainly don't think one can declare CR is the best in the world...there just isn't the evidence. Messi's stats are better, he has won more, etc. You have to make leaps of logic to definitively claim that CR is better, and it looks like way more neutrals think that Messi is better...pretty much every person here that says CR is better is for ManU or Chelsea, and/or has a picture of CR in his avatar or signature.

 

[DMF]

The game was way different back then, so it really doesn't make sense to compare the two (especially in terms of internationals). However, one could easily argue that since Pele was the best player on his team and obvious first choice for his teammates to give the ball to, he would have more goals than Messi, who is surrounded by other scoring options. Messi's goal rate has been unreal, and he scores more goals than CR, even though CR is definitely the first goalscoring option for his team and is much more "selfish" than Messi (in terms of trying to score goals for himself, which makes sense because he's his team's best player). Messi is more of a creator (partially shown by having way more assists than Ronaldo). But he also scores more goals too. He is simply responsible for more offensive production than Ronaldo is.

I don't think one can definitely declare that Messi is the best in the world, but I certainly don't think one can declare CR is the best in the world...there just isn't the evidence. Messi's stats are better, he has won more, etc. You have to make leaps of logic to definitively claim that CR is better, and it looks like way more neutrals think that Messi is better...pretty much every person here that says CR is better is for ManU or Chelsea, and/or has a picture of CR in his avatar or signature.

As I said already, it comes down to opinion as there is no definitive proof for either to be the best in the world.

For me it's Ronaldo, because he's proved he can do it on every stage and Messi hasn't. People have and will disagree with me, and it's completely understandable - but for me it's Ronaldo.

 

[Danny]

As I said already, it comes down to opinion as there is no definitive proof for either to be the best in the world.

For me it's Ronaldo, because he's proved he can do it on every stage and Messi hasn't. People have and will disagree with me, and it's completely understandable - but for me it's Ronaldo.

Every stage being... Playing in the EPL for the best team while he was there? And La Liga, also playing for one of the top 2 teams in the league.

And yet to actually prove himself at International level.

So, I'm not sure how Ronaldo has proved himself on EVERY stage.

 

[DMF]

Every stage being... Playing in the EPL for the best team while he was there? And La Liga, also playing for one of the top 2 teams in the league.

And yet to actually prove himself at International level.

So, I'm not sure how Ronaldo has proved himself on EVERY stage.

42 goals in one season for Manchester United - won UCL, EPL that season.
35 goals in February for Real Madrid, hit 65 goals for the club in 62 games and 50 league goals in 52 league games.

Portugal captain, scoring goals for the team again, getting assists and playing excellently for the team, already played in 2 World Cups - scoring in both and going to the European Championship Final, scoring goals on the way.

How has he not proven himself on every stage?

 

[frederickooo]

for me its Ronaldo, unbelieveable for Man utd and even better for R Madrid
although i can see why people hate him because hes the best and he knows hes the best and he wants to be the best which isnt a bad thing hes very self confident and has every reason to be, but Messi's also a brilliant player i just cant stand everyone up his **** about how hes amazing and the best ever, when hes clearly not, Ronaldo was the best ever a few years back, so was Kaka, before that Ronaldinho before that Zidane, Fat Ronaldo the list goes on, Messi's just the in thing at the moment, in fact the whole of Barca is, but i prefer the way Ronaldo plays.

 

[Danny]

42 goals in one season for Manchester United - won UCL, EPL that season.
35 goals in February for Real Madrid, hit 65 goals for the club in 62 games and 50 league goals in 52 league games.

Portugal captain, scoring goals for the team again, getting assists and playing excellently for the team, already played in 2 World Cups - scoring in both and going to the European Championship Final, scoring goals on the way.

How has he not proven himself on every stage?

That's 2 stages. As he's yet to fully prove himself at International level..

There is more stages then just EPL & La Liga.

 

[DMF]

That's 2 stages. As he's yet to fully prove himself at International level..

There is more stages then just EPL & La Liga.

How is scoring in 2 World Cups and 2 European Championships along with countless other goals and being captain of your country not proving yourself on the international stage? :$

Also, he's performed in those 2 stages and has been the best player on both stages. Messi hasn't.

 

[beng1250]

Messi has much more of an effect on games than Ronaldo and IMO is a much overall better player... on the wider subject of Pele being the greatest player ever i think you need to beat in mind that Pele said in the past Garrincha was better than him, also Best.

Pele was outstanding none the less and scored a incredible amount of goals, he'll always be rememebered because he won so many world cups with the great Brazilian teams of the past.

 

[GodCubed]

Also, he's performed in those 2 stages and has been the best player on both stages. Messi hasn't.

Using this argument against Messi is ridiculous. It's like calling Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs not particularly good players because they didn't perform on any other stage apart from the English leagues.

 

[DMF]

Using this argument against Messi is ridiculous. It's like calling Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs not particularly good players because they didn't perform on any other stage apart from the English leagues.

They've never been classed as the best in the World though?

I'm not saying Messi isn't a particularly good player at all, he is a phenomenon. But for me, he's not on Ronaldo's level.

 

[Danny]

They've never been classed as the best in the World though?

I'm not saying Messi isn't a particularly good player at all, he is a phenomenon. But for me, he's not on Ronaldo's level.

A Portuguese & United fan is bound to say that.

 

[saroy94]

Definatly Messi.

Ronaldo is too fat now, useless in the game.

 

[DMF]

A Portuguese & United fan is bound to say that.

That isn't what my opinion is based on. I'd happily state that he's not the best in the world if I thought that. But in my opinion he isn't.

Whenever you take Xavi and Iniesta away from Messi, he's not as effective. You can't say that about any player and Ronaldo.

 

[Danny]

That isn't what my opinion is based on. I'd happily state that he's not the best in the world if I thought that. But in my opinion he isn't.

Whenever you take Xavi and Iniesta away from Messi, he's not as effective. You can't say that about any player and Ronaldo.

But Ronaldo has always had quality player playing with him in a team, like he did at United and he has now at Real.. He doesn't have that playing for Portugal and he's ******.

 

[CJ]

Look, this thread is rather pointless as almost every united fan has said that Ronaldo is better, as...well they've watched him play more. When tbh in reality we all know that Messi > Everyone. Remember United v Barca CL Finale? Messi pwned.

Messi's stats > Ronaldo's.

Also, why would Messi leave Barcelona, the best team in the world with some of the best players in the world? Be realistic, he has nothing to prove.

 

[GodCubed]

They've never been classed as the best in the World though?

I'm not saying Messi isn't a particularly good player at all, he is a phenomenon. But for me, he's not on Ronaldo's level.

Not quite. I've seen people call Scholes the best in the world before (not least Zinedine Zidane), and Giggs was never far off.

If you want other examples, I could say Paolo Maldini, Jack Charlton, Jimmy Armfield, Franco Baresi, Iker Casillas, Xavi Hernandez, Lev Yashin... the list of players who have proved themself on only one domestic stage is near endless, yet would you deny that in their position each was the best in the world at the time?

 

[theHavok]

Ronaldo with Barcelona team would be better than Messi. Messi has got behind him Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Villa,...