Starting at a new club
- Thread starter WJ
- Start date
- Replies 43
- Views 25K
epic terrorist
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2010
- Messages
- 5,010
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
Outstanding work WJ
I'm just trying to figure out the game of football. WJ's thought process was very helpful.
Anyway, this is what I ended up with, trying to mimic WJ's tactic
View attachment 255845
I don't really like to break people's legs, and I was wondering if I could do without that, or the opposite. First tests weren't very promising, I kept losing matches, but then I went to play versus cup against myself and assistant warned me to retain possession. So I ticked that on. My front players were playing a shorter passing game with counter mentality, so I figured I could better their passing options by playing narrower, so I ticked that on too. And it seems that also improved their finishing. This is the result of first competetive match:
View attachment 255842
Exactly zero fouls, 4 goals scored, and pretty good form all around. I'm itching to tick on more stuff, but will first see how this goes.
View attachment 255845
I don't really like to break people's legs, and I was wondering if I could do without that, or the opposite. First tests weren't very promising, I kept losing matches, but then I went to play versus cup against myself and assistant warned me to retain possession. So I ticked that on. My front players were playing a shorter passing game with counter mentality, so I figured I could better their passing options by playing narrower, so I ticked that on too. And it seems that also improved their finishing. This is the result of first competetive match:
View attachment 255842
Exactly zero fouls, 4 goals scored, and pretty good form all around. I'm itching to tick on more stuff, but will first see how this goes.
I hope you don't mind I was wondering if I could get you opinion on how I have set up my team so far? I read this thread and some other guides (posted in a previous thread of mine).
So basically I want to create a tactic to get the most out of Lukaku's physical attributes, so my idea is to create a fast paced attack where the ball is given straight to the wingers/wing backs to be able to run at the defence or whip a cross in to Lukaku's head.
So here is the roles I have came up with:
View attachment 238121
So firstly I have my defence, it's no secret that Baines and Coleman are exception at going forward (at least IRL!) and I have fairly quick paced CB's in Stones and Jags (both about 14 acc and pace) so I want my wingbacks to bomb forward and look to support the wingers, I chose a support duty which i'll go into later on.
The midfield consists of McCarthy, Besic and Barkley as my best options. I decided that I want my DM to cover the back 4, and be able to recycle possession to the more creative players. I could've chose BWM but I read that they like to roam around and this would leave the defence a bit exposed to DM(D) was what I decided. Next I wanted to get Barkley to attack from deep as often as possible and be able to craft out killer through balls to the wingers and striker so I chose AP(A). Finally to provide the missing link in the midfield I chose McCarthy to be a CM(S).
The forwards, I want to get the most out of Januzaj and Deulofeu's creativity by allowing them to run at the defence whilst still whipping in a large amount of crosses to Lukaku's head. So I chose Winger on Attack duty, now I did previously have the wing backs on attack duty but conscious that the wide players would run into the same space thats why I put them on support duty. Finally, Lukaku, I want to be able to get the best out of his physical attributes so I chose AF.
Lastly here are my TI's, trying to mimic a simple fast paced wing attack whilst staying fairly compact so I want to play narrower and, in my mind this is what should happen, leave spaces for my wingers on the flanks to exploit, hence that TI. When I'm not in possession I want to harass the opposition but not dive into tackles where missing might leave a huge gap for the opposition.
View attachment 238110
I'm not the best of tactic creators so any advice on this would be appreciated, be as harsh as you like haha!
So basically I want to create a tactic to get the most out of Lukaku's physical attributes, so my idea is to create a fast paced attack where the ball is given straight to the wingers/wing backs to be able to run at the defence or whip a cross in to Lukaku's head.
So here is the roles I have came up with:
View attachment 238121
So firstly I have my defence, it's no secret that Baines and Coleman are exception at going forward (at least IRL!) and I have fairly quick paced CB's in Stones and Jags (both about 14 acc and pace) so I want my wingbacks to bomb forward and look to support the wingers, I chose a support duty which i'll go into later on.
The midfield consists of McCarthy, Besic and Barkley as my best options. I decided that I want my DM to cover the back 4, and be able to recycle possession to the more creative players. I could've chose BWM but I read that they like to roam around and this would leave the defence a bit exposed to DM(D) was what I decided. Next I wanted to get Barkley to attack from deep as often as possible and be able to craft out killer through balls to the wingers and striker so I chose AP(A). Finally to provide the missing link in the midfield I chose McCarthy to be a CM(S).
The forwards, I want to get the most out of Januzaj and Deulofeu's creativity by allowing them to run at the defence whilst still whipping in a large amount of crosses to Lukaku's head. So I chose Winger on Attack duty, now I did previously have the wing backs on attack duty but conscious that the wide players would run into the same space thats why I put them on support duty. Finally, Lukaku, I want to be able to get the best out of his physical attributes so I chose AF.
Lastly here are my TI's, trying to mimic a simple fast paced wing attack whilst staying fairly compact so I want to play narrower and, in my mind this is what should happen, leave spaces for my wingers on the flanks to exploit, hence that TI. When I'm not in possession I want to harass the opposition but not dive into tackles where missing might leave a huge gap for the opposition.
View attachment 238110
I'm not the best of tactic creators so any advice on this would be appreciated, be as harsh as you like haha!
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Okay, now I'm not sure why you posted in this thread. I started at a new club, had a clear vision of how I wanted to play, who'd be the goal scorers and who would be the pivots and main creators. I then watched games, highlighted issues I had and made changes based on what I saw.
You say crosses aren't 'working'. What does that mean?
Why aren't the wingers getting involved? Too high? Marked out of the game? What?
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Probably a good time to read up on TIs too. Might be of some help.
Lines and Diamonds: The Tactician's Handbook for Football Manager 2015
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Looking at the tactic a bit more, you have 3 players (the front 3) bursting forward when you get the ball. The 3 central midfielders will hang back a lot, around the ball carrier (even the AP/A), so you're going to get separation here. You've essentially created a permanent counter attacking tactic with this role and duty setup and you're countering with only those 3. Whoever gets the ball in that 3 must make something happen as the 3 central midfielders won't be able to keep up with play so there will be no passing options. Why haven't you gone for a Counter mentality rather?
I'm not sure if Playing Narrower and Exploiting Flanks is helping you much either. You're already at 'normal' width and with the duty spread, your play will naturally tend to go to the flanks anyway as Lukaku will be isolated. Currently, you might see your 3 central midfielders on top of each other and struggling to keep possession, because they don't have many (any?) options outside of the other 2 central midfielders.
You're on a standard mentality too and Clear Ball To Flanks is more of a Attacking/Overload shout when the opposition is sitting back and you need that goal ASAP.
You're playing Barkley in a position he's not very good in either, so I'm assuming he was just there to cover for an injured player? In fact, why have a playmaker in the middle at all? You want the ball going to the flanks. Without the TIs messing things up, the ball will gravitate to your AP/A and from there he'll pick out one of the three (most likely a winger) in front of him.
This is why I started with no TIs in the OP and what I hoped people would see and learn from. It's much easier to add TIs than to figure out which ones are harming your tactic.
I'm not sure if Playing Narrower and Exploiting Flanks is helping you much either. You're already at 'normal' width and with the duty spread, your play will naturally tend to go to the flanks anyway as Lukaku will be isolated. Currently, you might see your 3 central midfielders on top of each other and struggling to keep possession, because they don't have many (any?) options outside of the other 2 central midfielders.
You're on a standard mentality too and Clear Ball To Flanks is more of a Attacking/Overload shout when the opposition is sitting back and you need that goal ASAP.
You're playing Barkley in a position he's not very good in either, so I'm assuming he was just there to cover for an injured player? In fact, why have a playmaker in the middle at all? You want the ball going to the flanks. Without the TIs messing things up, the ball will gravitate to your AP/A and from there he'll pick out one of the three (most likely a winger) in front of him.
This is why I started with no TIs in the OP and what I hoped people would see and learn from. It's much easier to add TIs than to figure out which ones are harming your tactic.
Last edited:
The crosses don't seem to be be finding Lukaku as often as I hoped, I get that crossing has a low percentage of completion but almost every time Lukaku seems to be marked by 2 players, possibly because of the play narrower TI. I never thought about that TI hindering the midfield, that definitely seems to be happening here.
I never really thought about the counter mentality, I left it at standard first just until after a few games and as for Barkley, I was going to push him into the AMC slot at some point on a AM(S) role but I just wanted to see how the team got on with this formation, he can play naturally at CM but he can't tackle very well so I get why he probably shouldn't be there
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Whipped crosses aren't very accurate. I'm almost certain the description says that. Added to that, you're asking for early crosses, which would usually be when you have a pace advantage. He's the only striker though, so he WILL have 2 defenders on him. The only player who might distract on DC is the winger on the opposite side.
The AP/A drives forward with the ball. That's something that Barkley isn't that great at. It's another main point in my OP - assess your squad and players' strengths.
I personally really liked this topic it has helped me slot judging by my first few games on here and I think it helps with tactic creation in general and picking out any areas that need to be strengthen before the end of the transfer window nice job 
martianmanager
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2014
- Messages
- 94
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 6
From someone who REALLY wants to tailor tactics to a team and make my own (instead of relying on the many, but albeit excellent, tactics on here) - I really appreciate this.
I may not be up to LLM level yet, but let's hope this gets me onto a good start.
I may not be up to LLM level yet, but let's hope this gets me onto a good start.
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Thank you. The positive here is that it can be applied to any club at any level. I would do the same thing at Man Utd, Barcelona or any other team I have real-world knowledge of. I try to forget the 'real world' in FM though and base it purely on what I see in front of me. It's also why I chose a club (and more specifically, a date) where people reading the thread won't have real-world knowledge getting in the way (or taking more of the focus away) of the point of my thread.
Conflictinbanno
Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2013
- Messages
- 169
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
I think this could be the best quote about it, your try to forget the real world team. I think this is the mistake a lot of people make on FM, me included, you see how a team lines up and think the best idea is to mirror that and then get annoyed when you can't replicate what they could do. It's also one thing I wish I did so much earlier!
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
I never have this issue since I start my game at the very bottom. I ran into the same problems you did, just 6-7 years ago. We think of a player in terms of what we see IRL.
It could be helpful, in terms of trying to see the system IRL and then implementing it in FM. I see absolutely massive mistakes in mentality, TIs, role and duty choices (in general) when people do this though. Either people don't understand exactly what they're seeing IRL or they don't know how to translate what they see into FM, so the FM knowledge isn't where it should be.
Regardless, it's just easier to evaluate the players on the screen in front of you. Their PPMs and attributes are laid out for you and you can play how you want based on that, rather than the frustration of trying to spot every detail of how your real life team plays. Doing that also shoe-horns you into one style/formation/way of playing, with no freedom to play how you want to.
Conflictinbanno
Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2013
- Messages
- 169
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
I know what you mean. I just haven't quite got to grips with starting at the bottom yet. I think people just assume with the players they have and predict they should play a specific way.
I think the other main mistakes is getting player roles wrong/using too many TI's. I now quite often will use the highlight player attributes now to decide on a players role, combined with the description of the role to make sure the role works in how I feel I want them to behave. Although I still think I'm learning.
I think the other main mistakes is getting player roles wrong/using too many TI's. I now quite often will use the highlight player attributes now to decide on a players role, combined with the description of the role to make sure the role works in how I feel I want them to behave. Although I still think I'm learning.
WJ
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 4,472
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 38
Player roles aren't as clearly laid out as it could be, but you have 3 areas to judge.
1 - Key attributes for the role. This is obvious and will focus on what makes the role 'tick'. Obviously at lower levels especially, you won't have the perfect player who will have good values in all the key attributes. It's not an issue though. Just be aware of it.
2 - The role description.
3 - Player PIs. In FM15, it's much clearer which PIs are now active by default. This gives you a better idea of what the player will do in this role.
1 - Key attributes for the role. This is obvious and will focus on what makes the role 'tick'. Obviously at lower levels especially, you won't have the perfect player who will have good values in all the key attributes. It's not an issue though. Just be aware of it.
2 - The role description.
3 - Player PIs. In FM15, it's much clearer which PIs are now active by default. This gives you a better idea of what the player will do in this role.
May I add the suitability to the role here as a fourth? A lot of times I have seen players in non natural positions because they have a player who doesn't quite fit the tactic but he has great attributes and should play. Teaching a player a new position in those cases is vital or alternatively make the difficult decision to sell him or simply make him a excellent player on the bench and rotate.
The difference from Natural to Accomplished makes a huge difference in how the player performs. It's okay to use players in non natural positions as substitute for parts of matches but it will halt your progress in the long run.