Steven Gerrard - Centre Midfielder?
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i know! dammit.I'll be back in the morning chaps, anything I would say from now on would just be complete nonsense anyway, haha. Good to see Madsheep has posted in this thread, anyhow.
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He was poor in that role against Man City, let Milner and Johnson in way too easily, he is imo the best Midfielder in the premiership, when he plays in the AM role
Eds, the two articles Zeb posted both backed up my point about how he'd rather chase the ball than hold his position or track a runner, i just didn't desribe it very well by calling it the hollywood challenge...
As for him not having the legs to be a box-to-box, he doesn't. He doesn't make a last ditch challenge and then get up the other end and score on the attack that came from that challenge... [then again, who does?]
I'd much rather see Gerrard behind Torres, as i think he's much more of a threat there, and he's far better going forward than he is defensively. Also, by playing him that high up the pitch, it doesn't allow him to attempt the hollywood pass as often as he does when playing centre mid, as he mainly get's the ball in and around the area, thus making him immediately more dangerous.
Like Madsheep said, Schweinsteiger had adapted and become a good CM because he was willing to, and he's smarter in possession than Stevie [it hurts to say a german is better than Stevie G <3] Rafa tried and failed to make Gerrard more intelligent but failed because he didn't seem interested.
& i don't know about anyone else, but i feel that Rafa know's a lot more about tactics, and Steven Gerrard than you or i...
As for him not having the legs to be a box-to-box, he doesn't. He doesn't make a last ditch challenge and then get up the other end and score on the attack that came from that challenge... [then again, who does?]
I'd much rather see Gerrard behind Torres, as i think he's much more of a threat there, and he's far better going forward than he is defensively. Also, by playing him that high up the pitch, it doesn't allow him to attempt the hollywood pass as often as he does when playing centre mid, as he mainly get's the ball in and around the area, thus making him immediately more dangerous.
Like Madsheep said, Schweinsteiger had adapted and become a good CM because he was willing to, and he's smarter in possession than Stevie [it hurts to say a german is better than Stevie G <3] Rafa tried and failed to make Gerrard more intelligent but failed because he didn't seem interested.
& i don't know about anyone else, but i feel that Rafa know's a lot more about tactics, and Steven Gerrard than you or i...
Nah, the pictures don't back up that he chases the ball, but it does back up he needs to learn to track a man, and not switch off defensively.
He does have the legs to go box-to-box, of course he does. Steven Gerrard is defined by covering back, making a brilliant sliding tackle after outpacing the attacker, passing it clear and getting involved in the attack.
Schweinsteiger was a gloryboy winger who wanted nothing more than to score a hattrick. Who would have guessed he would turn into one of the best Central Midfielders in the world? Steven Gerrard already has the majority of the skills needed, so I see no reason why he couldn't.
As far as I care, Milner and Johnson weren't actually meant to be his men. Man City were playing a 4-3-3 and Gerrard's role was to nulify the creative threat from Toure and Barry in the middle, and he didn't do it that badly. Milner and Johnson were meant to be marked by Johnson and Agger, who did very poorly. There is a reason Man City's best attacks always came from the wings.
Esseentially,you try your best to play a player in a position which gets the best out off him and I dont think you should burden Gerrard with defenisve duties as there are serious dounts over whether has the tactical abilty,stamina to be a Box-to-Box Midfielder which he will have to take on if he does get shifted to the CM Role,when in an AMC position we all know Gerrard's proven ability and as Liverpool do have Poulsenn,Meires and Lucas why do they have to burden Gerrard with more duties when essentially he is one of their best players and you would want him to focus all his energies on attacking as he is pretty much 1 of the 4-5 Liverpool players who can actually prove a threat to the opposition.Especially with Torres out every now and then,Gerrard will be heavily relied on to score and provide goals and thats essentially what you want him to do first
But taking out the defensive element of Gerrard's game is like not allowing an All-Rounder to bowl in cricket. One of the brilliant parts of Stevie's game is tracking back and making that all important slide tackle.
I don't think there should be any doubt over whether or not he has the Stamina. He's certainly got the Stamina to play Box-to-Box.
And I think you've missed the point of this thread. It's not about whether he should be playing there for Liverpool, it's about can he play there, generally.
He can still score and provide from Central Midfield, and you'll still have the defensive element of that in his game.
Ofocurse he can play there,but I feel that he would be better upfront in AM cause there are dounts about his abilty defensively as people here have highlighted,but I'm confident that he can improve and can play there but in the current state Liverpool are in,he would be better suited upfront in the hole behind Torres
No, no and no. Schweinsteiger wasn't a gloryboy winger. He used to be a rebel off the pitch, but on the pitch he is nothing near a gloryboy winger. I understand why you said that because he is always going for the shot instead of passing, but that's just because he has that determination to win for his team. Watch his Munich games, he is always among the most passionate player on the field. He is chasing every ball down and tries everything he could just to help his team, although sometimes he does way too much. His play is similar to Gerrard, and that's why so many people are comparing them.
That said, I believe that Schweinsteiger is better tactically than Gerrard right now. What I mean is that he is more patient in the midfield. (after being converted into a central midfielder), which is an important attribute a central midfielder must have. That might be down to the fact that Schweinsteiger had played as a defensive midfielder before, a role that requires a lot of discipline. He doesn't go for every 50/50 challenge, he doesn't drive forward whenever he gets the ball, he would rather choose a pass back to his defenders than trying a 60 yard hollywood pass, he would sometimes sit deep rather than trying to be involved in every single attack etc.
The reason why I think Gerrard isn't as suited as a central midfielder is because he is too much of a winner. Not that it's a bad attribute to have, but sometimes it's unnecessary. Whenever he gets the ball, he tries to make something happen. He would make those powerful surges forward, dive into every 50/50 challenge to win the ball back, tries a long range pass forward, gets into opposition's area all the time, shoots from long range etc. In short, he tries to get his team to score every single time he has the ball. I absolutely love that mentality of his as that's why he had been winning so many games for Liverpool by himself, but it actually goes both ways.
but when you look at how toure controlled the midfield, he did do that badly. toure completed all but one of his passes, and they were generally dangerous one, sideways cut passes that continually picked out johnson and milner in space and running at you.
no doubts he has most of the abilities, but that he lacks the key ones, ie the general tactical nous and discipline. bastian has always been an intelligent player. he mastered it in under 2 seasons. if it was that easy to adapt gerrard it would be done under rafa, because quite frankly he would have been a phenomenal central midfielder. if he really wants to play there he must learn that he cannot be involved in every attack bursting forwards, because he will be undone.
is gerrard a central midfielder? no
can he be a central midfielder? maybe if he is willing so sacrifice some aspects of his game, he wasnt wlling to do it under rafa, but maybe he is now, though maybe its come just a little too late
youve got to come to united soon,and if he plays like he did against city, you guys are in for a bad day
Bastian Schweinsteiger was a gloryboy winger, most definately. I'm not actually sure if you're talking about now or before, but I am certainly talking about a few years ago.
Now, he is certainly a centre midfielder who helps his team more than anything, and is certainly an asset. He's a completely changed player to what he was a few seasons back, and that's my point. If he can change from rebel off-the-pitch and gloryboy winger to rock of a central midfielder and possible captaincy candidate, then Steven Gerrard can.
Yes, Schweinsteiger is far, far more patient than Gerrard. Looking at another example of a central midfielder, Xabi Alonso, he was always a fan of the hollywood ball, and is very very good at it, as is Gerrard. Alonso is praised for playing it whereas Gerrard is criticised. Don't pull some bullshit about Alonso knowing when to play it because he certainly misplaced many passes in his time.
Surely that's what you want your central midfielder doing? If you were to stick someone like Paul Scholes, a cool, calm, collected character alongside him, and let Gerrard play like he does, with possibly a holding mid behind them, that would work perfectly. You've got to get the balance right, and Stevie G is a good enough player to have a team built around him. You stick someone to sit in behind him and someone that can play keep ball in next to him, that's certainly a good combination.
Now, back to the point. I think Gerrard's do or die, go for it attitude is something you really want in a midfielder. Am I the only one who still believes in the passionate, bone crunching central midfielders, or has the era of Xavi and Iniesta taking its tole on everyone? There are more than one type of Central Midfielder in this world, and if you were to slot a Paul Scholes type player next to Gerrard, you can leave him to unleash **** on whoever comes within metres of him.
If you could get me the stat for how many passes Toure did actually complete, that'd be great.
But the majority of Toure's passes on Monday seemed to be ten-yarders to Johnson or Milner who were then left with a job to do. Yes, they did it very well, but with wingers not at the same calibre as them, Yaya would struggle.
Bastian has not always been an intelligent player. He was Ronaldo-esque merely seasons ago, and was a selfish, non-caring arsehole. He's suddenly developed at Bayern, and if he can, Gerrard can.
Yeh, Rafa did try and make Gerrard into a full-time centre mid, but he obviously wasn't that bothered about playing him there as he eventually gave in and stuck him up behind Torres. I think Roy's going to have a better go at it.
However, despite all of this, I don't think Liverpool FC will ever see Steven Gerrard as a central midfielder. I fear he will leave in either January or at the end of a disappointing season and he'll play wherever he wants at a club offering him 150grand a week. He's certainly capable of turning into a full-time centre mid, and I believe he has all the stats to do that, but if he has the offer to play CAM, would he prefer to play there? Who knows.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create
then pick the game and player
toure's job was possession, exactly what central mid does, he was giving them the ball in space where they could then do their own work(you'll see it clearly on the chalkboard).
bastain changed becuase he was willing to put the hard yards in, gerrard hasnt so far.
then pick the game and player
toure's job was possession, exactly what central mid does, he was giving them the ball in space where they could then do their own work(you'll see it clearly on the chalkboard).
bastain changed becuase he was willing to put the hard yards in, gerrard hasnt so far.
Keeping the possession isn't the only job of a centre mid. I think Xavi and Iniesta have brainwashed people...
this isnt to do with xavi and iniesta, they do thing most players cant.im talking about constant accurate passing
---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------
the central midfielder is longer someone who just bombs from one end of the pitch to another, he has become a fulcrum around which attack and defence operate. you can only attack with the ball and thus why possession is key to a central mifielder
Xavi and Iniesta are both, when it comes down to it, possession controlling midfielders. And now people seem to think that's the only way to be a centre mid.
i have never thought about xavi and iniesta when it comes to central midiield.this all stems from makelele thats where the shift happened, or at least became more public
---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------
at the top level, unless you are supremely good defensively and thus can live on the counter (mourinho) posession is paramount these days, even before the world started bowing to barcelona
Yeah, I agree with you on Makelele. Patrick Vieira was a centre mid for Arsenal, and he hasn't really changed his game and now he's an out and out holding mid.
Possession is important, but risk is reward, and Gerrard often takes the risk.
agree with you on the last bit, but the problem with gerrard is that he doesnt know when to take the risk and when not to, the tactical discipline and decision making that i always mention, because there is no doubt his actual footballing ability is top class. he plays the risk too often. and that is what is preventing him from being a top class central mid
As the Zonal Marking article says, he's too far away from Torres & goal to have as much an impact on the game as he would by playing behind Torres. I personally don't feel he can play there to good effect, not tactically disciplined enough, and his passing isn't good enough for that position. Also, if he plays CM who plays in the whole, because as far as i'm concerned, Joe Cole can't play there, that might be his preferred position but he's played his best football starting on the left...
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