The Arsenal Thread

[Sulsey]

OK. To clear up the Odemwingie nonsense:

According to the reliable North Bank Lower, Arsenal made an official enquiry to WBA a few weeks ago. I don't know what they said, but for one reason or another, we pulled out and didn't make a bid at all. So actually, Odemwingie didn't "reject" us at all. That's either him trying to make himself look cool or someone else talking out of their proverbial **** (see what I did there?). Suggestion is Arsenal have different targets (Gervinho?)

More news is that Arsenal are still interested in Ricky Alvarez. Sandro Orandelli picked him up 3 years ago aged 20 when scouting S. America (Although SO is actually based in Brazil) and we've been tracking him ever since. There are several other European clubs interested at the moment; including Malaga and Roma. Asking price is (or was) apparently €12m, a fee which put Arsenal off immediately because he was considered to be back-up/impact sub rather than first choice anywhere. He has an Italian passport so there would be no WP issues (despite being Argentinian)... Anyway. That's pretty much a summary of this from Young Guns:



Arsenal Still On The Trail Of Alvarez « Young Guns || Unrivalled Coverage Of Arsenal's Young Players & Their Development

By the way - don't know anything about the Clichy rumours. Seem pretty random and unfounded. Comes from a site called 'Welcome to the Gunners Town' or 'WTTGT' which has 40 followers on twitter. They say it's an 'exclusive' which may well mean they're wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

By the way.

@Sulsey - Godcubed says "You're wrong" re: Vermaelen. Kthanksbye.

I'm never wrong, he is misinformed.

---------- Post added 23/06/2011 at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was 22/06/2011 at 11:25 PM ----------

Clichy has apparantly signed for PSG for £10M.

Welcome to the Gunner's Town - Arsenal News - *WTTGT EXCLUSIVE* Arsenal defender*sold

 

[colossus]

OMG...just read on Sky Sports that we have enquired into Odemwingie!!! WTF he is *****! We should be going for someone like Benzema or even Forlan now he seems to be available!!

 

[Joss]

OMG...just read on Sky Sports that we have enquired into Odemwingie!!! WTF he is *****! We should be going for someone like Benzema or even Forlan now he seems to be available!!

Meh. Made an enquiry, didn't follow it up. It was a while ago, so don't don't why SS are trying to make something out of it

 

[Calum]

[/COLOR]Clichy has apparantly signed for PSG for £10M.

Welcome to the Gunner's Town - Arsenal News - *WTTGT EXCLUSIVE* Arsenal defender*sold

good Clichy is error prone

 

[sunilvk7]

I read in this forum someone saying Wenger is not a great manager and no great manager will have 6 year barren spell, which i didn't agree with and also that argument ended there itself. I remembered now and searched for one post that was posted in other forum.

Here it goes.

Spoiler

FA Cup - Founded in 1871
European Cup - Founded in 1955
League Cup - Founded in 1960

* Busby had a dry spell from 1957-1962.
* Shankly had a dry spell from 1966-1973.
* Clough had a dry spell from 1980-1988.



Copa del Rey - Founded in 1902
Coppa Italia - Founded in 1922
European Cup - Founded in 1955

* Herrera had a dry spell from 1951-1959 and 1970-1981.
* Sacchi had a dry spell from 1991-2001.

 

[Alcaraz]

I read in this forum someone saying Wenger is not a great manager and no great manager will have 6 year barren spell, which i didn't agree with and also that argument ended there itself. I remembered now and searched for one post that was posted in other forum.

Here it goes.

aye that would be me but then here is the facts... Arsenal are a top club and have some quality players, lets argue for the sake that having a dry spell does not matter but then if you look at the 6 years

Arsenal have never finished higher than 3rd

Arsenal have never won a cup competition

Arsenal realistically have never managed to keep the momentum from their Title Challenge to push on until the last month

Realistically this was the season where they came closest and yet managed to fail to capitalize on the chances given to them


Basically if the same things continue to go wrong season after season why does'nt Wenger do something, agree that EPL is tougher than ever but you would expect Arsenal to challenge Man Utd for the title all the way at the very least which they have never done.....


A hallmark of a great manager is someone like SAF, he is also fighting with one arm ied behind his back with Glazers as his owner and pilling debts yet has he ever had a dry run in modern times, he still manages to win trophy after trophy year after year despite Chelsea and Man City spending **** loads of cash and he does that by playing some nice football

I dont understand why someone like Ancelloti can come in and win the 'Double' in his debut season and then finish 2nd in his next season but Wenger cant, sure you can argue that we spend **** loads of cash and we probably will die when Roman leaves blah blah but then if you compare Arsenal and Chelsea, i believe that the quality of the teams is very similar

You might argue that I am always against Wenger but other managers like SAF have the same problems as he does yet they succeed... would I call Wenger a good manager yes I would, he has agreat record with youth, has won plenty of trophies and has finished unbeaten for a whole season something which wont be emulated anytime soon

A hallmark of a great manager to me is SAF someone who still does well year after year despite increasing competition and Sunil bringing examples from the past is hardly fair cos the game has changed so much, I would really like to see you bring an example from the past decade where a manager of a top club has had a barren spell

 

[sunilvk7]

Spoiler

aye that would be me but then here is the facts... Arsenal are a top club and have some quality players, lets argue for the sake that having a dry spell does not matter but then if you look at the 6 years

Arsenal have never finished higher than 3rd

Arsenal have never won a cup competition

Arsenal realistically have never managed to keep the momentum from their Title Challenge to push on until the last month

Realistically this was the season where they came closest and yet managed to fail to capitalize on the chances given to them


Basically if the same things continue to go wrong season after season why does'nt Wenger do something, agree that EPL is tougher than ever but you would expect Arsenal to challenge Man Utd for the title all the way at the very least which they have never done.....


A hallmark of a great manager is someone like SAF, he is also fighting with one arm ied behind his back with Glazers as his owner and pilling debts yet has he ever had a dry run in modern times, he still manages to win trophy after trophy year after year despite Chelsea and Man City spending **** loads of cash and he does that by playing some nice football

I dont understand why someone like Ancelloti can come in and win the 'Double' in his debut season and then finish 2nd in his next season but Wenger cant, sure you can argue that we spend **** loads of cash and we probably will die when Roman leaves blah blah but then if you compare Arsenal and Chelsea, i believe that the quality of the teams is very similar

You might argue that I am always against Wenger but other managers like SAF have the same problems as he does yet they succeed... would I call Wenger a good manager yes I would, he has agreat record with youth, has won plenty of trophies and has finished unbeaten for a whole season something which wont be emulated anytime soon

A hallmark of a great manager to me is SAF someone who still does well year after year despite increasing competition and Sunil bringing examples from the past is hardly fair cos the game has changed so much, I would really like to see you bring an example from the past decade where a manager of a top club has had a barren spell

So we have to ignore all his wins before barren spell? And taking example from past proves my point that great managers had barren spells. Just saying game has changed so much wont prove your point as there is so much money involved in the game and Wenger hardly spent any. We all can say he is stubborn but we don't really know whether Arsenal had funds to compete for signings..

Who according to you are great managers other SAF, Jose, Ancelotti?

 

[fuelledbypassion]

A hallmark of a great manager to me is SAF someone who still does well year after year despite increasing competition and Sunil bringing examples from the past is hardly fair cos the game has changed so much, I would really like to see you bring an example from the past decade where a manager of a top club has had a barren spell

Seriously? There are lots of top clubs that have had barren spells this century. The difference is, like Abramovich, they are too trigger happy and offload managers way too soon. Off the top of my head, Roma haven't won Serie A since 2000/01, Juventus since 2002/03 and before this season, Milan since 2003/04 and Ajax since 2003/04

 

[sunilvk7]

Seriously? There are lots of top clubs that have had barren spells this century. The difference is, like Abramovich, they are too trigger happy and offload managers way too soon. Off the top of my head, Roma haven't won Serie A since 2000/01, Juventus since 2002/03 and before this season, Milan since 2003/04 and Ajax since 2003/04

To add to the list,
We didn't win league for 4 years too.. Won 1 FA cup and 1 Carling cup in that 4 year period..

 

[Joss]

Barca won nothing between 1996-2001 (I think).

AR Thread pretty dead, so I'll just post here...

We've got some really exciting collaborations coming up soon with any luck. Next season is going to be brilliant for us - more games, cooler graphics, more extensive site, awesome new writers who fit right in and (hopefully) more readers!

 

[Alcaraz]

Seriously? There are lots of top clubs that have had barren spells this century. The difference is, like Abramovich, they are too trigger happy and offload managers way too soon. Off the top of my head, Roma haven't won Serie A since 2000/01, Juventus since 2002/03 and before this season, Milan since 2003/04 and Ajax since 2003/04

But none of these clubs have ever had one manager, I am sure if they stuck with the manager they would have won something eventually... being the manager of a club for 16 years ad winning zilch for 6 of them is inexcusable

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

To add to the list,
We didn't win league for 4 years too.. Won 1 FA cup and 1 Carling cup in that 4 year period..

So you won something in that period right?

 

[sunilvk7]

But none of these clubs have ever had one manager, I am sure if they stuck with the manager they would have won something eventually... being the manager of a club for 16 years ad winning zilch for 6 of them is inexcusable

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------




So you won something in that period right?

We didn't win anything for first 6 years Fergie was in charge..

 

[Joss]

But none of these clubs have ever had one manager, I am sure if they stuck with the manager they would have won something eventually... being the manager of a club for 16 years ad winning zilch for 6 of them is inexcusable

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------




So you won something in that period right?

And look where it got them. Barca didn't win anything for 6 years - they sacked manager after manager and still took 6 years to win something. I'd rather have one manager and not win something for 6 years then have 15 managers and win nothing for 6 years.

Also willing to sacrifice short-term success for long-term stability and success without spending excessive amounts of money. While Chelsea and City are going to have to cut back in the market (as they are this summer, with Utd looking like they'll out-spend City for once), Arsenal don't need to cut back and even if we did, we have an excellent group of Youth products to fall back on in an emergency. Do Chelsea have that? Do City? No. Chelsea sell every other young player because the players know they'll never be given a chance. Only a matter of time before McEachran realises that and looks elsewhere.

All spending money does is increase the likelihood of short-term success, run the club into debt and attract money-grabbing tossers.

I, and evidently the Arsenal board, have full confidence in Wenger and his 10 year plan. If he hasn't won anything by 2013-14, his plan will be a failure.

Chelsea won nothing from 2000-2005. How many managers did you go through during that time? I'd rather go 6 years without a trophy, then 50 years without a league title.

 

[Lol_101]

time speaks for itself.

 

[Alcaraz]

We didn't win anything for first 6 years Fergie was in charge..

but u were hardly much of a top club or am I mistaken?

 

[I Hate Fish]

We didn't win anything for first 6 years Fergie was in charge..

Didn't United also have a three season dry run with SAF in charge?

 

[Sulsey]

but u were hardly much of a top club or am I mistaken?

There is Banter and then there is just being stupid. You are the latter of the two.

Stop trolling.

 

[Alcaraz]

And look where it got them. Barca didn't win anything for 6 years - they sacked manager after manager and still took 6 years to win something. I'd rather have one manager and not win something for 6 years then have 15 managers and win nothing for 6 years.

Also willing to sacrifice short-term success for long-term stability and success without spending excessive amounts of money. While Chelsea and City are going to have to cut back in the market (as they are this summer, with Utd looking like they'll out-spend City for once), Arsenal don't need to cut back and even if we did, we have an excellent group of Youth products to fall back on in an emergency. Do Chelsea have that? Do City? No. Chelsea sell every other young player because the players know they'll never be given a chance. Only a matter of time before McEachran realises that and looks elsewhere.

All spending money does is increase the likelihood of short-term success, run the club into debt and attract money-grabbing tossers.

I, and evidently the Arsenal board, have full confidence in Wenger and his 10 year plan. If he hasn't won anything by 2013-14, his plan will be a failure.

Chelsea won nothing from 2000-2005. How many managers did you go through during that time? I'd rather go 6 years without a trophy, then 50 years without a league title.

u totally missed the whole point of the arguement and went off into along tangent of stuff completely irrelevant to our original debate

We were discussing if Wenger was a great manager and I cant find much in your essay that actually tells me he is, instead u seem content to go on and on about your youth products and how we wont win the league title for 50 years

You also only gave me that one line where u say u have full confidence in Wenger but other than that nothing much... even then a 10 year-plan? Your team already has enough quality to win the PLM so your only gonna frustrate players and make them leave by telling them they will have to wait till 2013 so see if the plan is a success

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 AM ----------

There is Banter and then there is just being stupid. You are the latter of the two.

Stop trolling.

All i am saying is that at the time Man Utd were not expected to win trophies so it is justified that Fergie did not win anything for 6 years however it is not justified that Wenger did not win anything for 6 years as his club is one of the best in England so he is expected to win trophies

Sadly my short life has not extended to watching Fergie take over at Man Utd and I was wondering whether they were a top club or not at the time and were they expected to win trophies

 

[CtPauley]

u totally missed the whole point of the arguement and went off into along tangent of stuff completely irrelevant to our original debate

We were discussing if Wenger was a great manager and I cant find much in your essay that actually tells me he is, instead u seem content to go on and on about your youth products and how we wont win the league title for 50 years

You also only gave me that one line where u say u have full confidence in Wenger but other than that nothing much... even then a 10 year-plan? Your team already has enough quality to win the PLM so your only gonna frustrate players and make them leave by telling them they will have to wait till 2013 so see if the plan is a success

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 AM ----------




All i am saying is that at the time Man Utd were not expected to win trophies so it is justified that Fergie did not win anything for 6 years however it is not justified that Wenger did not win anything for 6 years as his club is one of the best in England so he is expected to win trophies

Sadly my short life has not extended to watching Fergie take over at Man Utd and I was wondering whether they were a top club or not at the time and were they expected to win trophies

Of course we were expected to win trophies when SAF was at the start of his reign. Why do you think he was reportedly close to getting sacked at that time?

 

[Alcaraz]

The most irritating part is how some of you completely miss the point of this particular 'Wenger' Arguement some times. Whenever I start off a debate on whether Wenger is a good manager, Arsenal fans seem content to turn the tables and go off and write a long essay on how Chelsea are going to self-combust in 10 years while Arsenal won't.. Pure speculation I might add

Lets ask ourselves a series of questions:

Q1. Are Arsenal a team good enough to challenge for the PLM?

Yes I think most of us would agree they are

Q2. Are Arsenal a top club in England and therefore expected to win trophies?

Again a resounding yes

Q3. Do Arsenal have a team good enough to beat the likes of Manchester City, Man Utd and Chelsea?

They have beaten all of them at one point or another



So basically in short you guys have a side capable of winning trophies. You guys have got a healthy financial condition but its hardly like you can't spend at all. So if you do have a side capable of winning trophies, why haven't you done so in the past 6 years,. The point here is that Wenger has been incharge for these past 6 years and its not like he has a bad squad, he has a great squad infact. So obviously you would expect him to win trophies, atleast one.

Why I compared Wenger with SAF is because SAF too has a club which has piles of debt much worse than Arsenal I might add, he too has had to give a makeover to his squad several times and he too has a great youth base to back on, some might say theirs is better than Arsenals tbh.

So SAF has not only managed to create a brilliant youth set-up but also has won trophies on a regular basis while Wenger has not. Even in his prime, Wenger has never won a European Trophy while SAF has taken this particular squad to the finals on 3 occassions in the past 6 years and this particular one was with his weakest squad relative to the other 2.


So I feel it is unfair to mention Wenger in the same breath as Ferguson, Ferguson is my choice for the No. 1 spot on the best Managers of all time list while according to many people such as Mike. Weneger does not even make it there

So the hallmark of a great manager to me is SAF not Wenger to end it off

---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 AM ----------

Of course we were expected to win trophies when SAF was at the start of his reign. Why do you think he was reportedly close to getting sacked at that time?

never knew that Lol... seems to have turned it around brilliantly since then tho, time will tell if Wenger can do the same