The Arsenal Thread

[Average Joe]

Injuries are part and parcel of the game mate, every manager contends with them, Chelsea this season lost Drogba and Lamps for the first half of the season yet we managed a 2nd placed finish

And if they dont have a good back-up for RVP, surely Wenger should realise this by now

Yes but he hasnt got the resources (apparntly) available to get replacements. Ronaldo replaced Beckham, Nani replaced Ronaldo etc etc. Ferguson, when he needs it, is given money to replace any big player he looses. Wenger doesnt seem to have that option, well - not to the same extent anyway

 

[Alcaraz]

Yes but he hasnt hot the resources (apparntly) available to get replacements. Ronaldo replaced Beckham, Nani replaced Ronaldo etc etc. Ferguson, when he needs it, is given money to replace any big player he looses. Wenger doesnt seem to have that option, well - not to the same extent anyway

yes that is true to a certain extent but Wenger does have the adequate resources, most of the time when you read his interviews:

He will be saying something like we do have money to spend but we are happy with the squad we have so we are not looking to buy any players


That kind of thread of thought...

 

[fuelledbypassion]

aye this window it seems like Man Utd do have a huge transfer kitty... and no the likes of Moyes, Redknapp and Bruce should not have gone cos they did the best with the squad they had which was certainly never capable of winning trophies while Wenger does have a squad capable of doing just that yet he has not won any

But Wenger built that team. Had he spent the money that some of the others had, he might well have dominated the league for all we know. What if SAF hadn't won for 6 years and Wenger had dominated? Someone has to lose, it's just that SAF has the qualities required to push his team further (imo).

Wenger is an incredible scout / employs like-minded scouts, he has developed the most entertaining brand of football and has done it all whilst keeping the bank balance very healthy even while relocating.

SAF is a better tactition (imo) and a much better motivator / man manager.

There are many criteria that come into play when considering who is a great manager, but for me Wenger is world class because his shortfalls are overshadowed by his strengths.

Are you only implying that Wenger isn't a 'great' manager or that he should be sacked? I thought it was the latter but looking back I'm not so sure?

 

[Alcaraz]

But Wenger built that team. Had he spent the money that some of the others had, he might well have dominated the league for all we know. What if SAF hadn't won for 6 years and Wenger had dominated? Someone has to lose, it's just that SAF has the qualities required to push his team further (imo).

Wenger is an incredible scout / employs like-minded scouts, he has developed the most entertaining brand of football and has done it all whilst keeping the bank balance very healthy even while relocating.

SAF is a better tactition (imo) and a much better motivator / man manager.

There are many criteria that come into play when considering who is a great manager, but for me Wenger is world class because his shortfalls are overshadowed by his strengths.

Are you only implying that Wenger isn't a 'great' manager or that he should be sacked? I thought it was the latter but looking back I'm not so sure?

Was only implying that Wenger is not a 'great' manager, seeing some of my posts it might have come out as me saying he should be sacked but thats not the case


Well you have your opinion and I have mine, I respect yours totally, only time will tell if Wenger can turn his fortunes around and iif he goes on to dominate for the next 6 years, you all can come back here and slate me big time lol

 

[Average Joe]

Was only implying that Wenger is not a 'great' manager, seeing some of my posts it might have come out as me saying he should be sacked but thats not the case


Well you have your opinion and I have mine, I respect yours totally, only time will tell if Wenger can turn his fortunes around and iif he goes on to dominate for the next 6 years, you all can come back here and slate me big time lol

Would you of classed Wenger as not great when he was managing through the 'invincibles' period, or is it just since the dry spell?

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Was only implying that Wenger is not a 'great' manager, seeing some of my posts it might have come out as me saying he should be sacked but thats not the case


Well you have your opinion and I have mine, I respect yours totally, only time will tell if Wenger can turn his fortunes around and iif he goes on to dominate for the next 6 years, you all can come back here and slate me big time lol

I thought you said he should be sacked, for some reason. There's just been a lot of talk of that recently and I thought you were in the same boat, hence the passion of my arguement. Apologies.

I agree that they have strong enough squad to challenge, which they did much more last season, and I believe they should have at least won the carling cup a few more times in the past decade. It's too easy to criticise the boss though, and I still think he's a top manager.

 

[Sulsey]

I'm quite sure that United have a massive transfer kitty this window, more than Arsenal have. Since the premier league began, many clubs have spent more than Arsenal. Should the likes of Bruce, Moyes and Redknapp have gone already?

That really is impressive on the Arsenal side of things.

Also, my beloved Portsmouth. Baffles as to how we got into so much debt with figures like those.

 

[Alcaraz]

Would you of classed Wenger as not great when he was managing through the 'invincibles' period, or is it just since the dry spell?

when you class a manager as 'great'.. you really need to look at his entire managerial spell rather than a few selected periods of his spell tbh, maybe Wenger may totally dominate English Football for the next 6 years but as of looking at his entire managerial spell right now, I would not call him great

 

[Joss]

Some interesting stats I just researched via ESPN:

Cesc Fabregas stats since 2004/2005 - (All Comps) Apps: 298, G: 56, A: 89. // Xavi - Apps: 318, G: 37, A: 67 (But Xavi assists don't appear to be recorded in 04/05 unless he just didn't get any)

Xavi also had one season (05/06) when he played only 20 times overall for Barca.

EDIT: Xavi actually has 87 assists in all competitions since 2004/05.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

when you class a manager as 'great'.. you really need to look at his entire managerial spell rather than a few selected periods of his spell tbh, maybe Wenger may totally dominate English Football for the next 6 years but as of looking at his entire managerial spell right now, I would not call him great

But isn't that what you're doing? Ignoring the first 10 years to focus on the last 6 = a selected period of his spell.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

Oh and by the way - lots of rumours about Cesc "quotes" going around from a French Magazine called "Sofoot", don't seem in any way genuine. Says "I'm done with Barcelona" but seems a re-hash of an old Yahoo spoof.

 

[sunilvk7]

Some interesting stats I just researched via ESPN:

Cesc Fabregas stats since 2004/2005 - (All Comps) Apps: 298, G: 56, A: 89. // Xavi - Apps: 318, G: 37, A: 67 (But Xavi assists don't appear to be recorded in 04/05 unless he just didn't get any)

Xavi also had one season (05/06) when he played only 20 times overall for Barca.

EDIT: Xavi actually has 87 assists in all competitions since 2004/05.

Xavi till 2007-08 played second fiddle to Deco who was running the mid field and also played deeper role. So comparing them with stats wont do any justice for Xavi (If that is what you were doing in the first place).

 

[Alcaraz]

Some interesting stats I just researched via ESPN:

Cesc Fabregas stats since 2004/2005 - (All Comps) Apps: 298, G: 56, A: 89. // Xavi - Apps: 318, G: 37, A: 67 (But Xavi assists don't appear to be recorded in 04/05 unless he just didn't get any)

Xavi also had one season (05/06) when he played only 20 times overall for Barca.

EDIT: Xavi actually has 87 assists in all competitions since 2004/05.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------



But isn't that what you're doing? Ignoring the first 10 years to focus on the last 6 = a selected period of his spell.

Nope, I am taking his whole spell into account and when 6 years of 16 have been trophyless when ur managing the same club and in a row that is not exactly justified

 

[Joss]

Xavi till 2007-08 played second fiddle to Deco who was running the mid field and also played deeper role. So comparing them with stats wont do any justice for Xavi (If that is what you were doing in the first place).

I wasn't. I was asked on the Arsenal Report account to find out their stats, so I did. Not making any judgements myself.

 

[Mike.]

Some flawed arguments here. yes Arsenal have not been as successful as they would have liked, but each season they have run it close in almost every competition. They are a club that will be sustainable for the short and long term future; and in this world that is a rare and valuable thing. But for me Wenger is still one of the best managers out there, and i will always wonder what he could have achieved with the same resources at United, because what he has achieved already is fantastic. He has his flaws but he is still a great

 

[ajt09]

Some flawed arguments here. yes Arsenal have not been as successful as they would have liked, but each season they have run it close in almost every competition. They are a club that will be sustainable for the short and long term future; and in this world that is a rare and valuable thing. But for me Wenger is still one of the best managers out there, and i will always wonder what he could have achieved with the same resources at United, because what he has achieved already is fantastic. He has his flaws but he is still a great

Especially when you consider that Fabregas was (to my knowledge) bought in for pretty much next to nothing, and now potentially, Arsenal stand to make a £30+ million pound profit, which the club can use to bring in more quality to the club. The guy just never fails to amaze me sometimes

 

[Joss]

Nope, I am taking his whole spell into account and when 6 years of 16 have been trophyless when ur managing the same club and in a row that is not exactly justified

But you're clearly not because you're ignoring the first 10 years in which he won 11 trophies and went 49 games unbeaten. But you're right, of course. That isn't a 'great' achievement so let's ignore that.

 

[Alcaraz]

But you're clearly not because you're ignoring the first 10 years in which he won 11 trophies and went 49 games unbeaten. But you're right, of course. That isn't a 'great' achievement so let's ignore that.

Lets look at SAF last 16 years and ur last 16 years... see a massive difference, even in his prime Wenger never won the European Cup which is a great achievement, sure he went 49 games unbeaten by he still never managed to win more trophies than SAF in his prime... so if ur calling Wenger 'Great' then surely SAF is much better

If I am looking at the first 10 years I also have 2 look at Wengers last 6 years, remember that

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------

Some flawed arguments here. yes Arsenal have not been as successful as they would have liked, but each season they have run it close in almost every competition. They are a club that will be sustainable for the short and long term future; and in this world that is a rare and valuable thing. But for me Wenger is still one of the best managers out there, and i will always wonder what he could have achieved with the same resources at United, because what he has achieved already is fantastic. He has his flaws but he is still a great

I always thought he was a good manager but if u classify SAF and Jose as 'great' then Wenger is decidedly 'good'.... they have run it close in competitions but have never finished 2nd in the PLM for a long time, finsihed 4th this season after supposedly being United's closest rivals and have never gotten to the final of the CL

they have run it close Mike but not very close

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 AM ----------

Especially when you consider that Fabregas was (to my knowledge) bought in for pretty much next to nothing, and now potentially, Arsenal stand to make a £30+ million pound profit, which the club can use to bring in more quality to the club. The guy just never fails to amaze me sometimes

SAF made much more profit with the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo...

 

[CtPauley]

Lets look at SAF last 16 years and ur last 16 years... see a massive difference, even in his prime Wenger never won the European Cup which is a great achievement, sure he went 49 games unbeaten by he still never managed to win more trophies than SAF in his prime... so if ur calling Wenger 'Great' then surely SAF is much better

If I am looking at the first 10 years I also have 2 look at Wengers last 6 years, remember that

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------




I always thought he was a good manager but if u classify SAF and Jose as 'great' then Wenger is decidedly 'good'.... they have run it close in competitions but have never finished 2nd in the PLM for a long time, finsihed 4th this season after supposedly being United's closest rivals and have never gotten to the final of the CL

they have run it close Mike but not very close

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 AM ----------




SAF made much more profit with the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo...

Beckham was sold for £25m not £30m+

 

[Joss]

Lets look at SAF last 16 years and ur last 16 years... see a massive difference, even in his prime Wenger never won the European Cup which is a great achievement, sure he went 49 games unbeaten by he still never managed to win more trophies than SAF in his prime... so if ur calling Wenger 'Great' then surely SAF is much better

If I am looking at the first 10 years I also have 2 look at Wengers last 6 years, remember that

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------




I always thought he was a good manager but if u classify SAF and Jose as 'great' then Wenger is decidedly 'good'.... they have run it close in competitions but have never finished 2nd in the PLM for a long time, finsihed 4th this season after supposedly being United's closest rivals and have never gotten to the final of the CL

they have run it close Mike but not very close

But I'm not disputing whether SAF is "Great". Of course I realise that SAF is a better manager than Wenger. Doesn't mean Wenger ISN'T great. But on that topic - have Mourinho or Ferguson ever gone a season unbeaten in the PL? You seem to dismiss that achievement as if it's perfectly common and no credit at all should go to Wenger..

"Sure they did this, but has he ever eaten his own head? DIDN'T THINK SO!"

And that's exactly my point. You're not looking at the whole period - you're looking at the last 6 years and ignoring the rest, whereas I'm saying look at the first 10 years, and what he achieved, and take that into account as well. I've explained why [I think] Arsenal haven't won a trophy in 6 years but you don't seem to take any of my points on board.

LOL. Did you just say we've "never got to a CL Final"? You miiight want to do a quick google.

 

[Joel`]

Lets look at SAF last 16 years and ur last 16 years... see a massive difference, even in his prime Wenger never won the European Cup which is a great achievement, sure he went 49 games unbeaten by he still never managed to win more trophies than SAF in his prime... so if ur calling Wenger 'Great' then surely SAF is much better

If I am looking at the first 10 years I also have 2 look at Wengers last 6 years, remember that

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------




I always thought he was a good manager but if u classify SAF and Jose as 'great' then Wenger is decidedly 'good'.... they have run it close in competitions but have never finished 2nd in the PLM for a long time, finsihed 4th this season after supposedly being United's closest rivals and have never gotten to the final of the CL

they have run it close Mike but not very close

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 AM ----------




SAF made much more profit with the likes of Beckham and Ronaldo...

They got within about 10 minutes of winning the CL, so it's truly extraordinary that they never even got to the final. And people never said Wenger was better than SAF. SAF is unique and unparalleled in his achievements, so he makes for a poor bench mark unless we're calling Wenger one of the best in history. We're not.

 

[Mike.]

Wenger is a great, SAF just happens to be one of the greatest.