The Celtic Match Thread

[Mike.]

These clubs get Celtic fans viewing their games? I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying mate. Obviously nobody is going to benefit from this as much as Celtic, but we would not be the only ones to benefit from this. Like you say, if Celtic join the English leagues, Celtic fans subscribing etc would lead to more Sky subscribers. This is the obvious benefit for Sky. You also said that if Sky wanted Celtic in England, they would have to pay more to the EPL in TV rights, which would mean each individual club would get a larger slice of the TV deal. If we were to start in League 1, gate recipts would also be a big deal. 6,000 Celtic fans at £25 a ticket away to teams such as Brentford and we'd be the only club benefiting?

No i said you would be the only club substansially benefitting in the PL and Championship/L1, especially when compared to the PL. I never said they would have to pay more, I said it would cost them more. there is a difference, in terms of what they would lose trying to fight it. because the PL don't want the Old Firm full stop. This hasnt been decided on a random whim, you dont think the clubs have not had internal financial reports done on any of this?

League One don't want Celtic, there is more benefit (not much more) for those clubs, but they don't want Celtic or Rangers. Unlike the PL, they actually refuse to even vote on it. You forget that the size of these stadiums are also smaller. Clubs dont rely on playing the big teams like they do in Scotland.

This is all moot because Sky arent even pushing this.

 

[maxy67]

No i said you would be the only club substansially benefitting in the PL and Championship/L1, especially when compared to the PL. I never said they would have to pay more, I said it would cost them more. there is a difference, in terms of what they would lose trying to fight it. because the PL don't want the Old Firm full stop. This hasnt been decided on a random whim, you dont think the clubs have not had internal financial reports done on any of this?

League One don't want Celtic, there is more benefit (not much more) for those clubs, but they don't want Celtic or Rangers. Unlike the PL, they actually refuse to even vote on it. You forget that the size of these stadiums are also smaller. Clubs dont rely on playing the big teams like they do in Scotland.

This is all moot because Sky arent even pushing this.

Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

About the first point, I'm not sure thats the problem. The ex chief of the EPL spoke recently about the whole issue, when they last seriously discussed it in the early 2000's: and said there were many comments from chairmen mentioning "hadrians wall" rather than financial problems. So the stuff you posted before about the Football league only allowing English and Welsh teams is probably the main reason.

 

[Mike.]

Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

Not the way Scotland do. The very small teams love it(your Crawleys etc). Its a bonus payday. But PL, Championship and League One, do not survive on it. It is not factored into their day to day survival, like Rangers and Celtic are in the SPL. Plenty of teams wont draw a big side.

 

[Mike.]

Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

About the first point, I'm not sure thats the problem. The ex chief of the EPL spoke recently about the whole issue, when they last seriously discussed it in the early 2000's: and said there were many comments from chairmen mentioning "hadrians wall" rather than financial problems. So the stuff you posted before about the Football league only allowing English and Welsh teams is probably the main reason.

Just seen your edit. They voted in 2009. Shot down in flames.

I agree the "hadrians wall" kind of thing is part of it. Its probably the nail in the coffin, after the initial lack of substansial benefit. The fact that League One wont even vote, suggest that the "hadrians wall" thinking is even stronger there. But the key to this is as always business. That will always be the key factor, among others. It would take a serious amount of about face to change that.

Some have suggested Rangers could move to the English league pyramid. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images

Richard Scudamore, the Premier League chief executive, does not believe Celtic and Rangers will ever be allowed to join the English top flight.Suggestions the Old Firm clubs will attempt to leave the Scottish Premier League have surfaced again after Rangers went into administration. One idea would be that Rangers could re-form as a new club and play in England but Scudamore insisted he could not see it happening – and the Old Firm in England's top flight would go against Premier League regulations.Scudamore said:

"Our rules are simple. It says we're a league formed for clubs that play in England and Wales. I don't see that ever changing. I don't see that changing on my watch, not that my watch may last for long. There's more in it for them than there is for us."The Premier League clubs voted overwhelmingly against allowing the Old Firm clubs into a two-tier Premier League as part of a proposal put forward by the Bolton chairman Phil Gartside in November 2009. The main attraction for Celtic and Rangers would be finance – even the bottom club in the Premier League earns several times more in television money than the two Old Firm clubs

 

[Aannddyy]

Lol, love how they're saying "This league is for English and Welsh clubs only".. The FA have been rejecting applications from Welsh clubs for years, I'm pretty sure they would have kicked them all out by now if they could, shame the deal was done 100 years ago.

Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

Lower league clubs want away draws against the big clubs because in the FA cup the gate receipts are shared 50/50.. That's a lot of cash.

 

[AM67]

Regardless of whether they rely on it or not, playing Celtic would generate a lot of money for League 1 clubs. There is clear advantages to having Celtic in the English league system.

 

[Mike.]

Regardless of whether they rely on it or not, playing Celtic would generate a lot of money for League 1 clubs. There is clear advantages to having Celtic in the English league system.

Not that much, because unlike the FA cup, its not a 50-50 split. The reason clubs love playing United in the FA cup, is because at OT they would get 50% of the gate takings from a 76000 stadium. On a normal away day its more like 3000 at best. Therefore the benefit isnt anything near massive. You can keep saying there is a clear benefit, but financially it doesnt quite ring true.

Plus as Maxy67 puts it, the clubs are going on about "Hadrians Wall". They dont want Celtic anyway, regardless of any potential benefits, small or not.

 

[Mike.]

If only Celtic would spend this much energy pushing for much needed reforms to save their own league...

 

[AM67]

If only Celtic would spend this much energy pushing for much needed reforms to save their own league...

Celtic aren't pushing for a League 1 switch, this debate has been sparked by a bullshit story in The People.

Celtic chief Peter Lawwell calls for the SPL to be increased to 14 teams as he bids to end voting row - The Daily Record

League 1 average attendance is like 9k, 10k? Not entirely sure so correct me if I'm wrong but 6k travelling Celtic supporters at £25 a ticket is £150,000. How can you dismiss that as 'not that much' for League 1 clubs? In addition to that any home FA cup draws we get a 60k attendance would be split.

 

[Mike.]

Celtic aren't pushing for a League 1 switch, this debate has been sparked by a bullshit story in The People.

Celtic chief Peter Lawwell calls for the SPL to be increased to 14 teams as he bids to end voting row - The Daily Record

League 1 average attendance is like 9k, 10k? Not entirely sure so correct me if I'm wrong but 6k travelling Celtic supporters at £25 a ticket is £150,000. How can you dismiss that as 'not that much' for League 1 clubs? In addition to that any home FA cup draws we get a 60k attendance would be split.

1) FA Cup, most teams wont even get to play Celtic, which is why that kind of pay day isnt factored in. Its a lucky draw, which any particular club may not experience.

2) 6k travelling Supporters? Right well that wont happen as that is more than 50 percent of most home ground stadia, your allocation by the home side wont be anywhere near that high, beside its their home tickets they rely on, not the away fans.

Anyway, you wont get into the English leagues, so its moot. Rather you should be concentrating on the many ways you can boost your own league.

 

[AM67]

1) FA Cup, most teams wont even get to play Celtic, which is why that kind of pay day isnt factored in. Its a lucky draw, which any particular club may not experience.

2) 6k travelling Supporters? Right well that wont happen as that is more than 50 percent of most home ground stadia, your allocation by the home side wont be anywhere near that high, beside its their home tickets they rely on, not the away fans.

Anyway, you wont get into the English leagues, so its moot. Rather you should be concentration on the many ways you can boost your own league.

1) It's you who brought the FA cup up.

2) Allocation will obviously be increased, think Leeds in League 1, most clubs won't sell out their stadium - at Championship and lower Premier League levels this also happens.

 

[Mike.]

1) It's you who brought the FA cup up.

2) Allocation will obviously be increased, think Leeds in League 1, most clubs won't sell out their stadium - at Championship and lower Premier League levels this also happens.

I didnt bring it up. I merely explained the difference in how playing a bigger club differs from league to cup in terms of finances.

Allocations wont always be, because they get more money from their own fans, than the away fans. Giviing away home space to away fans makes no sense. And it will still not get 6k. Leeds gave more because they dropped so far down the leagues. Most league 1 sides sell pretty well, because ticket prices are relatively low, and the stadia are relatively small, making them easy to fill out.

As I said before, none of this is a major benefit. Its not going to be life altering money, or even a mega bonus pay day a la FA cup. The benefits fall even further in the Championship, and disappear entirely in the Prem. So as I stated, there is no real incentive for the premier league or football to invite Celtic. Thats it from me on this.

 

[Joel`]

1) It's you who brought the FA cup up.

2) Allocation will obviously be increased, think Leeds in League 1, most clubs won't sell out their stadium - at Championship and lower Premier League levels this also happens.

By your own admission most attendances are 9-10k, why on Earth do you think a club would give the away club the majority of seats at HOME? Regardless of finance, good luck to the Chairman trying to float that idea across to the fans.

 

[AM67]

By your own admission most attendances are 9-10k, why on Earth do you think a club would give the away club the majority of seats at HOME? Regardless of finance, good luck to the Chairman trying to float that idea across to the fans.

League 1 stadiums usually don't sell out no?

 

[maxy67]

By your own admission most attendances are 9-10k, why on Earth do you think a club would give the away club the majority of seats at HOME? Regardless of finance, good luck to the Chairman trying to float that idea across to the fans.

To be fair when ever I've seen celtic play away in London (mostly in friendly games), the Celtic fans usually sell out the away end, and a **** of a lot of home seats. So you would almost definitely see an increase in stadium attendances.

 

[Joel`]

League 1 stadiums usually don't sell out no?

Your point? There could be cases where the away support for Celtic would be double that of the home. It may as well not even be a home game.

And celtic should be a big enough club to attract an influx of new home supporters to the stadium.

Besides, it won't happen anyway. Plus you'd expect Celtic to get instantly promoted from the league with ease. Why would we change our entire league structure for you to give a tiny financial boost to league 1 sides for a single season?

 

[GodCubed]

Why is it that so many people think that Celtic are so important to the English game?

We don't need Celtic in our league, we don't particularly want Celtic in our league, and there's precious little benefit. Quite apart from that, I fail to see WHY it would happen.

 

[AM67]

If you honestly can't see why Celtic joining the English league system would benefit the English league and it's clubs then I don't know how to explain it to you lol

 

[IceCreamAndJelly]

If only Celtic would spend this much energy pushing for much needed reforms to save their own league...

Love the ignorance View attachment 232552


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Benefits of Celtic in the English Leagues for the English League and their teams

• More fans at games
• More TV viewers
• More competitive league
• More global appeal (yes you have your United and Liverpool but Celtic have large groups of dedicated followers around the globe also)
• More merchandising

Negatives of Celtic in the English Leagues for the English League and their teams

• Some of the smaller teams will feel threatened
• Might ruin the integrity of the English Leagues (that have Welsh team in them)

The points are obviously open to interpretation and more points could be added at either end? But Currently it looks like the Benefits outfight the negatives.

 

[Aannddyy]

By your own admission most attendances are 9-10k, why on Earth do you think a club would give the away club the majority of seats at HOME? Regardless of finance, good luck to the Chairman trying to float that idea across to the fans.

Anybody can buy home tickets, especially in the lower leagues.