The Chelsea Thread

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Its because its Jose people believe he will pull this off and he is doing this for the better of the TEAM not the individual.

He cannot change Mata's fundamental style. If Mata's lateral style doesn't work for the side he should have been sold, not turned into a cart horse.

And I'll ask again if Rafa had done this with Mata, would you have been happy? Absolutely not, and that's why im calling bullshit on this total acceptance of it.
 
Ronaldo was far more a greedier player when at Utd compared to Madrid in my opinion. And yes people believe in Jose because its Jose!!!!

Certainly not. Ferguson tolerated Ronaldo's selfishness as a young player, and then when he matured he was told to buck up his teamwork as well as his physicality. That road ended with Ronaldo as a vital piece of a puzzle, not the be all and end all he is now at Madrid.
 
Certainly not. Ferguson tolerated Ronaldo's selfishness as a young player, and then when he matured he was told to buck up his teamwork as well as his physicality. That road ended with Ronaldo as a vital piece of a puzzle, not the be all and end all he is now at Madrid.

Had Ronaldo stayed at United, he would not have had the records he has now, but he would have been a more complete player. But United could never have given him the kind of prestige that he gets at Madrid.

Re: Jose I can understand why he wants Mata tracking ( Mata doesn't fit the system somewhat) but he isn't going to be able to fundamentally change him, while not impinging on what makes Mata great. But this whole swallowing of Jose's spiel, "he's not working hard enough etc" by lots of Chelsea fans, when they down right wouldn't have accepted it under anyone else is ridic.

When Mata was playing this way for 2 years they were rightly calling him the best player in the prem. Now Jose says something else, it's suddenly fine?
 
Re: Jose I can understand why he wants Mata tracking ( Mata doesn't fit the system somewhat) but he isn't going to be able to fundamentally change him, while not impinging on what makes Mata great. But this whole swallowing of Jose's spiel, "he's not working hard enough etc" by lots of Chelsea fans, when they down right wouldn't have accepted it under anyone else is ridic.

When Mata was playing this way for 2 years they were rightly calling him the best player in the prem. Now Jose says something else, it's suddenly fine?

I don't know if you've been listening to the majority of Chelsea fans, but I'm not sure most of them are 'accepting it' by any stretch of the imagination.
 
He cannot change Mata's fundamental style. If Mata's lateral style doesn't work for the side he should have been sold, not turned into a cart horse.

And I'll ask again if Rafa had done this with Mata, would you have been happy? Absolutely not, and that's why im calling bullshit on this total acceptance of it.
Surely him wanting to change Mata means he has plans and respects him enough to try, which can only be a good thing.
I think you're exaggerating the changes he wants. In what way is him being a bit more of a team player defensively, fundamentally changing him?

Also on the happiness of fans; I don't think people would have accepted it with Rafa but because of the relationship between CFC and Jose plus his reputation as probably the best manager in the world right now, we are more inclined to accept his ways. I think the old 'In Jose we trust' is appropriate here.
We might also be a little tired of the ruthless sackings and with no stability the past 6ish years, again with his past success, everyone wants this one to work.
 
He cannot change Mata's fundamental style. If Mata's lateral style doesn't work for the side he should have been sold, not turned into a cart horse.

And I'll ask again if Rafa had done this with Mata, would you have been happy? Absolutely not, and that's why im calling bullshit on this total acceptance of it.

So because he wants him working harder for the team he should be sold? Mata has this in him every player has this in them! He showed it today and again om Tuesday night that he can defend for the team and still create. One big difference Jose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rafa.

Rafa done things without explaining them and continued to make these these changes although it was not working i.e stubborn.
 
I don't know if you've been listening to the majority of Chelsea fans, but I'm not sure most of them are 'accepting it' by any stretch of the imagination.

No they wasn't until Jose's interview last weekend on Skysports when he explained everything and everyone understood what he meant. Did the same with Joe Cole.
 
So because he wants him working harder for the team he should be sold? Mata has this in him every player has this in them! He showed it today and again om Tuesday night that he can defend for the team and still create. One big difference Jose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rafa.

Rafa done things without explaining them and continued to make these these changes although it was not working i.e stubborn.


I'll ask again, if Rafa had come out and said exactly this about Mata (by the way, he often explained his reason, you just dismissed them) would you honestly have been so willing to accept this. Bearing in mind Rafa's fundamental approach has always been about the unity of the team.
 
In all fairness, there's absolutely nothing wrong with manager trying to play in his prefered style. What's puzzling to me is that Jose had no problems giving free role in Madrid to Ozil. So this sudden relapse of his obsession with defensive work is rather strange - its not 2005 anymore, can't conquer the world just by having all players track back - every team is doing the same thing.
 
In all fairness, there's absolutely nothing wrong with manager trying to play in his prefered style. What's puzzling to me is that Jose had no problems giving free role in Madrid to Ozil. So this sudden relapse of his obsession with defensive work is rather strange - its not 2005 anymore, can't conquer the world just by having all players track back - every team is doing the same thing.

Its not that, its the amount of spin on it, and how easily its accepted that annoys me.
 
Its not that, its the amount of spin on it, and how easily its accepted that annoys me.

If this annoys you then i'd suggest trying the outside world a tad more. Its accepted because its Jose you know one of the best managers around in the game.
 
In all fairness, there's absolutely nothing wrong with manager trying to play in his prefered style. What's puzzling to me is that Jose had no problems giving free role in Madrid to Ozil. So this sudden relapse of his obsession with defensive work is rather strange - its not 2005 anymore, can't conquer the world just by having all players track back - every team is doing the same thing.

It's not just about tracking back its about putting pressure on the ball all over the pitch, quicker we win it back the quick we can counter a massive part of Jose's game.
 
Its not that, its the amount of spin on it, and how easily its accepted that annoys me.

Heh, yeah. I vaguely remember people in here trashing Rafa for not being flexible enough and trying to force players into his system.

Then Jose comes along trying to force Chelsea's merry band of hobbits into "we're all Gattusos" kind of mentality, and its suddenly ok.
 
Heh, yeah. I vaguely remember people in here trashing Rafa for not being flexible enough and trying to force players into his system.

Then Jose comes along trying to force Chelsea's merry band of hobbits into "we're all Gattusos" kind of mentality, and its suddenly ok.

Hey, don't you know that Jose's track record effectively eliminates any and all criticism of him? Ease off, you're being way too harsh.
 
If this annoys you then i'd suggest trying the outside world a tad more. Its accepted because its Jose you know one of the best managers around in the game.

Talk about sidestepping the question entirely....
 
Heh, yeah. I vaguely remember people in here trashing Rafa for not being flexible enough and trying to force players into his system.

Then Jose comes along trying to force Chelsea's merry band of hobbits into "we're all Gattusos" kind of mentality, and its suddenly ok.

Exactly, its bullshit how its being viewed. With some serious double standards.
 
Calling total bullshit on this.

Because this is not what happened under Rafa, even when you were having decent form.

You can't pick out am extreme example like Rafa. Fans hated him for reasons not connected with his reign... The circumstances for his managerial reign were anything but normal
 
You can't pick out am extreme example like Rafa. Fans hated him for reasons not connected with his reign... The circumstances for his managerial reign were anything but normal

It's not an extreme example at all. The issues around his time are actually more pertinent, since it turns out most of the grievances were largely bullshit, like the fact the quotes were made up.

You are saying it will surely benefit the team. So I will ask a for a 4th time, would you have been happy and ok with it if it had been Rafa doing it to benefit the side, or AVB?
 
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It's not just about tracking back its about putting pressure on the ball all over the pitch, quicker we win it back the quick we can counter a massive part of Jose's game.
And someone like Mata is actually very important to that. If you have him on the pitch, he can ping it about from deep, picking up the counter-attacking wingers such as Hazard and Oscar. It was the same with Sneijder at Inter. So you can hardly argue that Mata's not the type of player Mourinho often has in his teams.

It's not double standards, its believing in a world class manager.
Ben?tez has won the Champions League, Europa League, La Liga (twice, with Valencia), FA Cup, Italian Cup, European Supercup and Club World Championship. Yes, that's not quite as good as Mourinho, but it can easily be argued that he is a world class manager. Why didn't you believe in him?
 
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