mccollio09
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Well if they're keeping a standard it should be 8.
The Chelsea Thread
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Well if they're keeping a standard it should be 8.
Suarez's base charge was increased to 4 games due to the number of times he was found guilty of abusing Evra. Which was then doubled to 8 due to the reference to race.
Terry has only been accused of abusing him once so I assume the base charge would just be 2 games.
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Suarez was charged under Rule E1, and then under Rule E2 in accordance to E1. Two bouts of 4 games, rather than one 8 game ban.
I'd be surprised if Terry was not charged under both, but you're right, the number of times he said increased the ban.
The burden and standard of proof
74. The second issue regarding the relevant Rules which arises concerns the burden and
standard of proof.
The burden of proof
75. It is common ground between the parties that the burden of proving a breach of Rule
E3(1) and (2) lies on the FA. It is not for Mr Suarez to satisfy the Commission that he did
not breach the Rules. Rather, it is for the FA to satisfy us to the required standard that Mr
Suarez did breach the Rules.
The standard of proof
76. Regulation 7.3 of the Disciplinary Regulations is in these terms:
"The applicable standard of proof shall be the flexible civil standard of the balance of
probability. The more serious the allegation, taking into account the nature of the
Misconduct alleged and the context of the case, the greater the burden of evidence
required to prove the matter."
77. There are two different standards of proof which can apply in legal cases. One is the
criminal standard which applies in criminal cases. The jury must be satisfied beyond a
reasonable doubt, or as it is sometimes put, so that it is sure, that the accused committed
the alleged crime.
78. The other standard is the civil standard on the balance of probability. This is enshrined in
Regulation 7.3 set out above, and applies to this case. It is a lower standard than the
criminal standard. It is for the FA to satisfy us on the balance of probability that Mr Suarez
breached the Rules. Alternative formulations for the civil standard are sometimes used,
such as more likely than not to be correct, or probably correct.
79. Regulation 7.3 includes an important reference to the civil standard of proof being flexible.
This means, as the Regulation states, that the more serious the allegation, taking into
account the nature of the Misconduct alleged and the context of the case, the greater the
burden of evidence required to prove the matter. This is sometimes described in this way:
the more serious the allegation, the less likely it is to have happened, and therefore the 25
greater the burden of evidence required to prove that it did. This does not set the standard
any higher than the balance of probability. But, the more serious the allegation, the
greater the burden of evidence required to prove the matter to that standard.
this is off the Suarez report, but the ruling standard on how it works is exactly the same.
The bit bolded highlights the key difference between the trial, and this. It's also why you couldn't compare Suarez to Terry, until now.
74. The second issue regarding the relevant Rules which arises concerns the burden and
standard of proof.
The burden of proof
75. It is common ground between the parties that the burden of proving a breach of Rule
E3(1) and (2) lies on the FA. It is not for Mr Suarez to satisfy the Commission that he did
not breach the Rules. Rather, it is for the FA to satisfy us to the required standard that Mr
Suarez did breach the Rules.
The standard of proof
76. Regulation 7.3 of the Disciplinary Regulations is in these terms:
"The applicable standard of proof shall be the flexible civil standard of the balance of
probability. The more serious the allegation, taking into account the nature of the
Misconduct alleged and the context of the case, the greater the burden of evidence
required to prove the matter."
77. There are two different standards of proof which can apply in legal cases. One is the
criminal standard which applies in criminal cases. The jury must be satisfied beyond a
reasonable doubt, or as it is sometimes put, so that it is sure, that the accused committed
the alleged crime.
78. The other standard is the civil standard on the balance of probability. This is enshrined in
Regulation 7.3 set out above, and applies to this case. It is a lower standard than the
criminal standard. It is for the FA to satisfy us on the balance of probability that Mr Suarez
breached the Rules. Alternative formulations for the civil standard are sometimes used,
such as more likely than not to be correct, or probably correct.
79. Regulation 7.3 includes an important reference to the civil standard of proof being flexible.
This means, as the Regulation states, that the more serious the allegation, taking into
account the nature of the Misconduct alleged and the context of the case, the greater the
burden of evidence required to prove the matter. This is sometimes described in this way:
the more serious the allegation, the less likely it is to have happened, and therefore the 25
greater the burden of evidence required to prove that it did. This does not set the standard
any higher than the balance of probability. But, the more serious the allegation, the
greater the burden of evidence required to prove the matter to that standard.
this is off the Suarez report, but the ruling standard on how it works is exactly the same.
The bit bolded highlights the key difference between the trial, and this. It's also why you couldn't compare Suarez to Terry, until now.
No, I'm not. Piazón dropped slightly right once or twice, and slightly left a couple of times, but both times he created no space at all (apart from his goal, of course), and only went there because there was no space centrally, or because it was a counter attack, so it's inevitable he'd start deep.
Well, that's good because I could not disagree with you more
There's no right or wrong description of false 9, but if a false 9 is somebody who plays as a striker and then drops off creating space, then Rooney would be a perfect example, yes? But he isn't. No he would not be "simply an attacking midfielder" because attacking midfield is a position, false 9 is a role. Believe me, I am not confused at all, I am somebody who pays a lot of attention to the false 9 role, 4-6-0, etc.. In fact, I'm going to disagree what I said in my previous post … IMO, a false 9 can be a striker or a second striker. Fábregas, for example, played as a striker dropping deep and drifting wide in the Euros, playing the false 9 role, but he did it completely different to how Messi would, for example, because they're different types of players. But, my point is, Messi starts deep, running into the space, or creating things, but Cesc started at the point of the attack, dropping deep, creating things. I'm glad you agree that playing no striker is not the same as playing a false 9 (though it can be in some cases – Messi doesn't play as a striker but is a false 9), but once again, Piazón didn't start deep, he started at the point of the attack, but didn't drop as deep or drift as wide as a false 9 would. Then again, it was a strange game to judge a player's position or role because it was so slow paced at times and when it's slow players don't always stay in position.I'm really starting waffle now, so hopefully this post makes sense, though I doubt it.
I'm not saying you don't, I just don't think Piazón was playing like a false 9.
I knew you were going to say that, but I think Mikel's level with Carrick, so…
It's made it more inconsistent. How can Anton Ferdinand not be charged, too? It doesn't make sense.
Cant see the JT fiasco ending soon. He has denied the charge and requested a hearing which wont take place before 1-2 weeks minimum. Then another 3-5 days for the hearing. Looks like he will get a 4 game ban but assuming Cahill and Luiz remain fit, we should be fine
Also nice interview from Luiz welcoming Oscar: David Luiz Welcomes Oscar- Chelsea FC
And Torres at the Pre-Match Press Conference: Torres Back in the Frame- Chelsea FC.
And a Michael *** article from some time back on AVB. Just found it and I liked it a lot, worth a read. Link is here
Also nice interview from Luiz welcoming Oscar: David Luiz Welcomes Oscar- Chelsea FC
And Torres at the Pre-Match Press Conference: Torres Back in the Frame- Chelsea FC.
And a Michael *** article from some time back on AVB. Just found it and I liked it a lot, worth a read. Link is here
Me too, as much of a legend Drogba is for Chelsea if we start retiring the shirt for every player who has done sensational for us then we will have barely none left. If the number 25 is not retired then no way should any other number.
I have to agree here, the FA want to stamp out all verbal abuse on the pitch which is also something Clarke Carlise said. So it's not ok to say racist words (which it isn't) but its ok to say what Anton said? Guidelines need to be drawn up here.
It's definitely an interesting discussion but to stop us from clogging the thread with our ramblings XD, want to carry it on via Steam?
TheRealMourinho
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Meireles in the No. 10 role?
Nick Chelsea
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Just watched Brazil - Belarus, and I must say, Oscar was immense. Im starting to love that guy. 2 brilliant shots saved by Belarus GK, 1 goal, controlled the attacking play for Brazil. I'm pretty happy knowing we bought him, now that I've watched like 10 games of him.
After watching the Brazil game, and agreed it was only Belarus, but if you were to pick him up after the Olympics you'd have paid considerably more. It isn't so much his goal, but the crispness of the passing, intelligence of the runs, and that he to have the ability of top players to drift around into space. It's a shame you have Torres to fit into the team, as I can see Hazard and Mata combining very well with Oscar up front as they can all take it past a man and have good skill. Hopefully he won't be bench sitting too much as he looks like an exciting prospect.
On Olympics watch and lets start with Oscar shall we. OMG what a player we could have on our hands here. Such maturity, passing ability and reading of the game for his age is freakishly good. He has the tools to become a world class footballer.
Now i have been saying to many Chelsea fans "Sturridge is a striker, always has been always will be" and look what happened. Sensational finish from the lad in a decent display from him.
Of course very happy Spain are out as Mata will join up earlier than predicted. Also lets hope he brings Azpilicueta too.
I also want to add on the Milan friendly the other night, although the goal was miles offside it's funny it happened as soon as JT got subbed. And although our pre-season results wise has not been great one of our aims from this season onwards was to control the game more. Last season we gave away too much possession to opposition sides but it is one thing which looks good coming away from this tour of the states.
Overall possession:
Now i have been saying to many Chelsea fans "Sturridge is a striker, always has been always will be" and look what happened. Sensational finish from the lad in a decent display from him.
Of course very happy Spain are out as Mata will join up earlier than predicted. Also lets hope he brings Azpilicueta too.
I also want to add on the Milan friendly the other night, although the goal was miles offside it's funny it happened as soon as JT got subbed. And although our pre-season results wise has not been great one of our aims from this season onwards was to control the game more. Last season we gave away too much possession to opposition sides but it is one thing which looks good coming away from this tour of the states.
Overall possession:
Against Seattle: 60%
Against PSG: 56%
Against All-Stars: 52%
Against Milan: 61%
Against PSG: 56%
Against All-Stars: 52%
Against Milan: 61%
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No, I'm not. Piazón dropped slightly right once or twice, and slightly left a couple of times, but both times he created no space at all (apart from his goal, of course), and only went there because there was no space centrally, or because it was a counter attack, so it's inevitable he'd start deep.
Well, that's good because I could not disagree with you more
I'm really starting waffle now, so hopefully this post makes sense, though I doubt it.
I'm not saying you don't, I just don't think Piazón was playing like a false 9.
I knew you were going to say that, but I think Mikel's level with Carrick, so…
It's made it more inconsistent. How can Anton Ferdinand not be charged, too? It doesn't make sense.
That's where we disagree. At no point in his career has Mikel demonstrated a passing game as complete and consistent as Carrick's.
The charge is relating to colour/race (E2). Apparently (but this is totally unconfirmed) the FA will privately heavily censure Ferdinand, but the real issue here is the racial slant.
Personally I'd like to see all abuse get punished as it is done in rugby, but at least lets start with the worst, and there is no doubt what terry said is far worse than what ferdinand said.
Football needs to take about a thousand cues from Rugby. Disciplinary action towards players, professional treatment of referees, video replays, medical attention on the pitch whilst the game is going on, a clock that stops when play does for injury and thus doesn't result in a wild guess at the amount of time that needs to be added on, players who get nudged in the ankles and ignore it rather than sell it like an overenthusiastic pro wrestler... but I digress.
EDIT: Mic'ed up refs, so you can hear both his reasoning for his decisions and the player's responses.
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Ron Gourlay said we are in negotiations to bring in a couple more players over the next two weeks. Expected to be a back-up RB and a striker/winger hybrid
Also he said we are going to send few players out on loan hinting that the likes of De Bruyne, Thorgan Hazard, Romelu Lukaku etc. could be the ones
Also he said we are going to send few players out on loan hinting that the likes of De Bruyne, Thorgan Hazard, Romelu Lukaku etc. could be the ones
Oscar was very good once again. One thing I noticed is his adaptability. Was frequently swapping positions with Neymar and Hulk in the attacking band of 3 behind the striker. Also tracked back willingly although it can be said he was partly at fault for the Belarus goal; should have pressed his man more
I still think Sturridge is more effective on the wing than through the middle. On the wing he can use his strongest attributes- His pace, acceleration and dribbling skills to good effect as an inverted winger. Not to mention his finishing ability.
Glad to see Mata and Romeu coming back earlier. Can't wait to see Mata link up with Hazard and Marin. Now that Spain's Olympics are officially over, we might see the Azpilicueta deal being confirmed sooner rather than later. Their is definitely interest from our side as Azpilicueta admitted and we are in desperate need of a RB. Particularly if Terry gets banned meaning Ivanovic may have to cover for the CBs
We were always going to be more proactive in our player after our recent acquisitions. Its hard for us to get more reactive than we were in the CL finals anyways
Also a nice account from a Chelsea Fan who stayed in the same hotel as the team in Miami. Link is here
Plus the Gourlay interview. Link is here