He's Scottish. Had to be around goats at some point.
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He's Scottish. Had to be around goats at some point.
Nick Chelsea
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Which is purely disgusting. I think that is the reason why black people take more offence than, lets say, white people, when a black person calls a white person a "white ****". And calling someone a white **** is a racial abuse as well. But white people dont give a **** usually.
That's pretty much because we've been the ones treating other cultures like **** historically. It is wrong for either side to abuse each other but it's been happening since day one and will probably never change unless people actually take a step back, educate themselves and their kids, and realise what they're doing is wrong. I've heard of all sorts of racist language from both sides and I just don't think it's ever going to stop. Because we're human beings and are too weak minded to accept other people and their culture at times. Which frankly makes me sick.
Yes this has been a mini rant as I was on the bus coming back with shopping, and heard some of the racist bile I've ever head-from a middle aged man with his kid besides him. Never been so angry
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To be fair , there's all kinds of verbal abuse going on between players - and as expected in a contact game where one hard tackle can end whole career - i seriously doubt anyone actually gives a ****. It's just that racial abuse tends to escalate. If you don't shut it down at the slightest offence, 5 years later you're in Italy and people are throwing bananas on Balotelli.
To a point, though I do agree if Subtle's point was that the discussion of race is marred by the fact that if anyone questions why something is racism, or considered racist, the 'politically correct' crowd jump all over them for being a relic of the past and an embarassment.. 'of course you should see why that's racist', the implication of questioning it is that you are racist and I dislike that. No knowledge is inherent, it is gained, and the lack of mature debate regarding race shows there is still a long way to go - right now people seem to step around on egg-shells and not get into the "meat" of the discussion.
There are strong similarities to feminism actually, in that it developed in the face of repression and has since permeated most if not all of society when women were supposed to be second class citizens also. Yet the discussion of both subjects is still embryonic, stunted, and hamstrung by the fear of offending someone or the seeming assumption that you cannot contribute to the debate unless you are part of that oppressed group. I think the 'hyper awareness' is actually damaging, because it stops people asking the really important questions, understanding where they fit in, and actually disagreeing with something and forcing people to actually make an argument and form a discussion, like in other walks of life.
There are strong similarities to feminism actually, in that it developed in the face of repression and has since permeated most if not all of society when women were supposed to be second class citizens also. Yet the discussion of both subjects is still embryonic, stunted, and hamstrung by the fear of offending someone or the seeming assumption that you cannot contribute to the debate unless you are part of that oppressed group. I think the 'hyper awareness' is actually damaging, because it stops people asking the really important questions, understanding where they fit in, and actually disagreeing with something and forcing people to actually make an argument and form a discussion, like in other walks of life.
Nick Chelsea
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It's disgusting really, but nobody can do anything to prevent it from happening. It's built into us (humans), you either control it or you don't. And by the way, it's all about how you feel about that person, not what you say to him in the heat of moment.
Well Nick, it's about being "part of the group" or not. If you look at Romney and his 47% comment, many of his Republican supporters are actually part of what he generalised as that 47% who he called wasters, and a drain on the state, who are able to live purely through handouts. Yet human nature seems to make people believe "Oh, that's not me, that's the other guy".
I do agree it's about how you feel about a person, but that is internalised. People need external cues to understand your internal views, and if you say something to him then that will unfortunately be taken as how you feel internally too. That shouldn't be too hard to grasp as a concept I think, it applies to a lot of things. People will and are taken at face value unless they have substantial mitigating circumstances.
I do agree it's about how you feel about a person, but that is internalised. People need external cues to understand your internal views, and if you say something to him then that will unfortunately be taken as how you feel internally too. That shouldn't be too hard to grasp as a concept I think, it applies to a lot of things. People will and are taken at face value unless they have substantial mitigating circumstances.
Or lets just keep working with kick it out which has as good as removed racism from english football. A few cases does not mean this is back at all.
In my opinion neither should offend you unless black people believe being black is a disadvantage to them. If someone calls me a white **** then congratulations for them on having eyes, why should i see that as a taunt? Being called a c**t is far more offensive in my opinion although it's one if my favourite words.
On the game i am very dissapointed we couldn't hold on to the 3 points but you could see fatuige creeping in towards the end of the game. I see so many fans slating Torres which yes he was not great but in my opinion today and last sunday Ashley Cole was very very poor and was partly at fault for Swansea's equaliser. Big game Wednesday and then again next Sunday which is my birthday and i managed to get tickets for so i am very happy.
I know about black oppression in the Western world. That's not the issue. The issue is that if you're willing to allow some forms of discrimination that are inherently equal to become treated differently, then you're just reinforcing the idea that they're different. The idea of taking a harsh stance on it is irrelevant because I'm not saying we shouldn't punish hurtful racist discrimination, I'm saying that we if punish one we should punish the rest too.
It seems massively counter intuitive to say: "I want everyone to be treated equally", then treat a group of people in a totally different. Tbh, I find it patronising and kinda offensive.
Nick Chelsea
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But when you are angry you can say things you dont mean. It's a natural thing.
Nick Chelsea
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Absolutely right.
I feel you miss the point Carl. Its the connotations that come with it.
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The important thing is we all realise as human beings, that racist comments, be it in the heat of the moment or not, or completely and utterly immoral and wrong. There is virtually no excuse whatsoever. I take back my previous comment of having to be educated. It's 2012. If by now, we cannot distinguish what is right or wrong, and pass that on to children, then there is a serious problem among us. We've been around long enough to distinguish what is right and wrong, be it racism or religious intollerance. If people cannot accept other people for whatever reason, then you are beyond help.
If it was known that a player of my club said what Terry did I would be utterly disgusted and I would not want him at my club regardless of how good he is, or if he is a legend. Simple as.
If it was known that a player of my club said what Terry did I would be utterly disgusted and I would not want him at my club regardless of how good he is, or if he is a legend. Simple as.
So what determines any one thing to be more offensive than another? Unless we assume everything and anything that could possibly be construed as slightly offensive has to be judged as being equally offensive as each other - which is patently ridiculous - the answer HAS to be just 'because'. To answer otherwise is obtuse.
We, as a species and a culture, have already decided societally what, broadly speaking, is offensive and of those things which is more offensive than the other. So yes, I am saying it's completely illogical and arbitrary, but that actually matters very little given the issue we're discussing here. We all KNOW that racism is more offensive than just calling someone a mug. Whether it's due to the relative commonness of the two insults or whatever reason, it's true, and trying to argue the point that racism isn't necessarily more insulting than any other given offensive statement is just pointless and time-consuming.
That said - and to be honest I don't know why I'm doing this, since I pretty much just deconstructed the argument against and denounced it as pointless and time-consuming anyway - I'll humour you. If I just quote Mike. for a second:
Right. Now, here's my argument: to be able to be racist towards someone, you automatically have to know more personal details about them, and therefore it is a far more personal attack than most other insults. See, I could be racist towards you, Subtle, but what good would that do? Yeah, you could be asian, and calling you a chinkie would actually make sense, but if you were black and I did the same it'd just end up with me looking like a **** (well, more of a **** than a regular person who uses the word 'chinkie' anyway).
On the other hand, I can call you a mug just on the basis of me disagreeing with you, and it'd work as an insult purely because... well, because. I don't need to know anything about you, but I can call you a mug on the strength of just what you said. My point is, you need to know a certain level of personal information about the person you're insulting to be able to be racist towards them, and by definition that makes racism more personal. And as Mike. pointed out above, more personal insults often cut far deeper.
Just found out John Terry's brother Paul signed for Bromley this season.
I reckon it wasn't just your average performance, more Swansea's excellent one. They were very good.
I reckon it wasn't just your average performance, more Swansea's excellent one. They were very good.
Here's a stat for all the pro Torres Chelsea fans: it took Gary Cahill a centre back who cost £7 million 26 games to score 7 goals for Chelsea. It took Fernando Torres a striker who cost £50 million 58 games to score the same amount.
First of all i want to say congratulations to Juan Mata for deservedly winning the player of the month award.
Also i have wrote a blog on the whole racism row surrounding the club if anyone wants a quick read.
We're the North Stand - Blue Flag UK Independent Chelsea Supporters Club......which was evolved from the facebook group Chelsea FC Blue Flag UK. A British based voice for the Chelsea faithful.
Also i have wrote a blog on the whole racism row surrounding the club if anyone wants a quick read.
We're the North Stand - Blue Flag UK Independent Chelsea Supporters Club......which was evolved from the facebook group Chelsea FC Blue Flag UK. A British based voice for the Chelsea faithful.