The Chelsea Thread

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Also anyone saying Mata has been warming the bench is mistaken. He is in the top 3 for minutes played among Chelsea attackers
 
We are third in the table and 2 points behind the leader - FACT
We are still in the Champions League knockout rounds - FACT
Oscar may not be as creative as Mata but he has a much more rounded skill set - FACT
For the first time in 3 seasons do we still have a chance of winning the title in January - FACT

Can things be better? Absolutely. We could be 2 points better off and in the League Cup which shows how well we are doing anyways. The way you talk, one might think we were knocked out all of competitions and struggling in the EPL. Get a grip

What does all this have to do with what Carl said? Being third in the table has more to do with City and United losing points, not because we play spectacular football.
 
He requested a transfer actually after he missed the penalty in the Super Cup, little sign of not being mentally strong as a player. There was no doubt he still needed work and this loan deal will make him more the complete player.
True but again that was the day after Eto'o had joined, four strikers going into one position doesn't make for great playing time. I like how you said it was a sign of him not being mentally strong, him demanding to go out on loan so he could get game time links to quite the opposite. He knows what he wants and went for it.

You could speculate that he'd be the main striker and would get the most playing time but it's highly unlikely.
Torres is likely to start half your games, so that leaves 20 or so for the other three, Eto'o could quite easily demand a place in half of those leaving Lukaku with scraps. Why stay for the chance to play 10-15 games when he can go out on loan and get 2-3 times that.
 
What does all this have to do with what Carl said? Being third in the table has more to do with City and United losing points, not because we play spectacular football.

That doesn't make sense ... You are basically saying that you won't be happy unless we win every game. The league is too tough now with any team capable of beating another on their day, leading the table out of sheer brilliance and not relying on others dropping points is asking too much of a team with no midfield and strikers. If you were a city fan then this argument would be valid
 
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Again, irrelevant, if you play him as GK.

Talk about taking it too the extreme ... He is playing in the band of three. Perhaps you can make an argument that he isn't being utilized effectively but the fact remains that if we give him a free role like we have done the past two seasons, he will excel individually but the team will suffer collectively. We lack the right players in the midfield tbh, someone like Matic coming in would perhaps allow Jose to give Mata more creative freedom but until we continue to have Lampard and Ramires as our best choice midfielders, Oscar is the better option
 
True but again that was the day after Eto'o had joined, four strikers going into one position doesn't make for great playing time. I like how you said it was a sign of him not being mentally strong, him demanding to go out on loan so he could get game time links to quite the opposite. He knows what he wants and went for it.

You could speculate that he'd be the main striker and would get the most playing time but it's highly unlikely.
Torres is likely to start half your games, so that leaves 20 or so for the other three, Eto'o could quite easily demand a place in half of those leaving Lukaku with scraps. Why stay for the chance to play 10-15 games when he can go out on loan and get 2-3 times that.

Pretty flawed reasoning you got there ... You are somehow assuming that Torres has the divine right to start half our games no matter how he plays. You are assuming that Eto'o will demand a place and moreover that a manager like Jose will give into his demands

Carl has a point ... Lukaku could have stayed and chosen to compete. Again I mention that it's not like he was exactly competing against world-class strikers. But he chose to go out on loan. I frankly don't blame him but it wasn't the most brave decision or one that exactly justifies the strong man persona he has been projecting over the summer
 
Pretty flawed reasoning you got there ... You are somehow assuming that Torres has the divine right to start half our games no matter how he plays. You are assuming that Eto'o will demand a place and moreover that a manager like Jose will give into his demands

Carl has a point ... Lukaku could have stayed and chosen to compete. Again I mention that it's not like he was exactly competing against world-class strikers. But he chose to go out on loan. I frankly don't blame him but it wasn't the most brave decision or one that exactly justifies the strong man persona he has been projecting over the summer

Lukaku has been consistently better than the rest of your strikers for the past 18 months. Going back out on loan was the brave choice, otherwise he would be sat on the Chelsea bench next to Mata.

If he wanted to play in the World Cup this year it was almost certain he had to go back out on loan.
 
Lukaku has been consistently better than the rest of your strikers for the past 18 months. Going back out on loan was the brave choice, otherwise he would be sat on the Chelsea bench next to Mata.

If he wanted to play in the World Cup this year it was almost certain he had to go back out on loan.

What makes you say he would have sat on the bench? Based on current form, he would have been our first-choice striker
 
Pretty flawed reasoning you got there ... You are somehow assuming that Torres has the divine right to start half our games no matter how he plays. You are assuming that Eto'o will demand a place and moreover that a manager like Jose will give into his demands

Carl has a point ... Lukaku could have stayed and chosen to compete. Again I mention that it's not like he was exactly competing against world-class strikers. But he chose to go out on loan. I frankly don't blame him but it wasn't the most brave decision or one that exactly justifies the strong man persona he has been projecting over the summer

I said likely to start half of them, going on the fact that he started most of them last season and has played half of them this season it makes logical sense.
You've mistook me on the Eto'o position, I don't mean demand and he'd go to the manager and tell him to play him but the fact that he's on fairly solid wages, he's a big name and he was brought in to improve your team going forward it would make again logical sense that he would start in a fair few games. His name, wages and the fact that he was brought in would demand he gets games.

Sure he has a point, Lukaku could have quite easily chosen to stay and likely spend more time sitting on the bench than playing. He could also do the smart thing and go out on loan and start 30 or so games, you go on about brace decisions but Mourihno hasn't exactly shown him much reason to not want to go out on loan.

Four strikers, two who are arguably much bigger names than him and Ba who the club already wasted money on. He'd realistically be at best be third in line below Eto'o and Torres, granted he might force his way into the starting line up but he could also spend half his time on the bench or not in the line up at all. Him going out and demanding a move away was the brave choice, it could have easily backfire and landed him in the reserves or again sitting on the bench for half a season.



What makes you say he would have sat on the bench? Based on current form, he would have been our first-choice striker
Based on last seasons form he should be first-choice, but clearly wasn't.
 
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What makes you say he would have sat on the bench? Based on current form, he would have been our first-choice striker

I honestly believe Mourinho bottled giving Lukaku a chance and signed Eto'o, now rather than admitting he is trying to blame Lukaku.

He never would have had the chance to prove his "current form" if he was still at Chelsea. This way he gets to play in the World Cup and that's fair enough.
 
I honestly believe Mourinho bottled giving Lukaku a chance and signed Eto'o, now rather than admitting he is trying to blame Lukaku.

He never would have had the chance to prove his "current form" if he was still at Chelsea. This way he gets to play in the World Cup and that's fair enough.

Their isn't really any blame game going on to be fair ... It is what it is and yeah I definitely can see where Lukaku was coming from when he requested a loan. It would have been harder for him to get games at Chelsea but certainly not impossible
 
Anyways at least Lukaku is taking points off our rivals while playing with Everton, I am not going to sit here and pretend with the media that this was another one of Mourinho's grand master plans but at least he is still helping us indirectly haha
 
That doesn't make sense ... You are basically saying that you won't be happy unless we win every game. The league is too tough now with any team capable of beating another on their day, leading the table out of sheer brilliance and not relying on others dropping points is asking too much of a team with no midfield and strikers. If you were a city fan then this argument would be valid

What?! A quick recap for you maybe? Sure.

Carl said we are playing better without Mata.

Then I said that's not true at all. (if we are talking about the creativity in the final 3rd, but then again, what else would we be talking about? Mata is a creator, not a ******* Makelele)

Then you said how we were 3rd in the table and how we can still win it. (completely irrelevant to what's being discussed)

So, what are you talking about again? Where did I say I wouldn't be happy if we win the title? Where did I say I wouldn't be happy with 1-0 wins until the end of the season? Completely missing the point, Alcaraz. Maybe you should stop with that "Are you even a Chelsea fan" and start digging deeper.

Don't quote me anymore, I'm done with this discussion. It took too much of my time. Thanks.
 
It didn't put him anywhere in the pecking order... He just had one more striker for competition along with Torres as Ba would have been loaned. You can look at it whichever way you want but at the end of the day, he was still afraid of competing and based on current seasons form of all 3, he would have probably established himself as first-choice anyways. As I said, I dont blame him for requesting a loan anyways
Oh stop being so na?ve, he was clearly never going to be first-choice! It's not just talent we're talking about, it's also reputation. And there is a hierarchy at the club, whether you like to admit it or not - how do you think Cech has retained his place for so long but Courtois has been repeatedly sent on loan, despite the fact that he's just as good? And based on his performances of the last few seasons, Mata would be key player on the team, but he's clearly not, is he?

We will get more than that for him, the fact is as brilliant as Mata was for us we are playing far better the way we are playing now without him.



He requested a transfer actually after he missed the penalty in the Super Cup, little sign of not being mentally strong as a player. There was no doubt he still needed work and this loan deal will make him more the complete player.
I have to admit I don't know too much about when he requested this loan, but surely if he had request it that early, he would've left earlier than Deadline Day? It doesn't seem to add up.

Also anyone saying Mata has been warming the bench is mistaken. He is in the top 3 for minutes played among Chelsea attackers
He should be top of that list, and should be playing in his favoured position more. He's better than Hazard, Oscar and Willian, and hasn't been performing recently because he's not been given an extended run in his favoured position. The media hasn't exactly helped with the rumours, though.
 
What?! A quick recap for you maybe? Sure.

Carl said we are playing better without Mata.

Then I said that's not true at all. (if we are talking about the creativity in the final 3rd, but then again, what else would we be talking about? Mata is a creator, not a ******* Makelele)

Then you said how we were 3rd in the table and how we can still win it. (completely irrelevant to what's being discussed)

So, what are you talking about again? Where did I say I wouldn't be happy if we win the title? Where did I say I wouldn't be happy with 1-0 wins until the end of the season? Completely missing the point, Alcaraz. Maybe you should stop with that "Are you even a Chelsea fan" and start digging deeper.

Don't quote me anymore, I'm done with this discussion. It took too much of my time. Thanks.

And that's exactly what I pointed out... If we played Matat, we will more than likely get ripped apart through the middle because whole Mata will roam around in his free role, he will offer very little defensive protection to the midfielder like Oscar does with his pressing and work-rate. So no, we will not play better with Mata in the side because we will sacrifice a whole lot of defensive solidity for an extra bit of creativity in the final third. This situation can potentially be rectified if we get a proper defensive midfielder in, basically we need the old Essien

I personally think you missed my point. You said that the reason we are 3rd in the table is because other sides dropped points and all I did was point out that it is a bit too much to demand that Mourinho gets Chelsea playing spectacular football and top the table when he has no midfield and strikers and basically an unbalanced squad. Pelligerini on the other hand has a fantastic squad with fantastic depth so in truth, Man City should really be the ones leading based on strength of squad alone

And I never ever said anything about you not being a Chelsea fan. I just feel your posts on here are nearly always cynical to extreme ends as Mike pointed out as well ... It's alright to criticize the club except you take it to another level and unfairly so at times
 
Oh stop being so na?ve, he was clearly never going to be first-choice! It's not just talent we're talking about, it's also reputation. And there is a hierarchy at the club, whether you like to admit it or not - how do you think Cech has retained his place for so long but Courtois has been repeatedly sent on loan, despite the fact that he's just as good? And based on his performances of the last few seasons, Mata would be key player on the team, but he's clearly not, is he?


I have to admit I don't know too much about when he requested this loan, but surely if he had request it that early, he would've left earlier than Deadline Day? It doesn't seem to add up.


He should be top of that list, and should be playing in his favoured position more. He's better than Hazard, Oscar and Willian, and hasn't been performing recently because he's not been given an extended run in his favoured position. The media hasn't exactly helped with the rumours, though.

Mate I appreciate you coming on here to have a discussion but you really need to get your facts straight ... Mourinho wanted Courtois to come back in the summer and challenge Cech for his spot but Courtois chose to stay out on loan. It's not about reputation or hierarchy... It's about proving that you can earn your place on the team. Is it fair to Cech if we decide to get rid of him and install Courtois in his place without giving him a chance to prove he can still cut it at the top level considering he is only 30 which is pretty young for a keeper?

And no, while their was a hierarchy of sorts at the club under previous managers which allowed the old guard to retain their place at the cost of others, it was never going to work under Mourinho. He has proved this by removing Cole from the starting XI and installing Azpilicueta in his place. Plus the very idea that Torres will retain his place due to reputation or hierarchy is absurd considering he hardly commands that larger stature at Chelsea

I have already said about why playing Mata over Oscar would be foolish considering the state of our midfield
 
And that's exactly what I pointed out... If we played Matat, we will more than likely get ripped apart through the middle because whole Mata will roam around in his free role, he will offer very little defensive protection to the midfielder like Oscar does with his pressing and work-rate. So no, we will not play better with Mata in the side because we will sacrifice a whole lot of defensive solidity for an extra bit of creativity in the final third. This situation can potentially be rectified if we get a proper defensive midfielder in, basically we need the old Essien

I personally think you missed my point. You said that the reason we are 3rd in the table is because other sides dropped points and all I did was point out that it is a bit too much to demand that Mourinho gets Chelsea playing spectacular football and top the table when he has no midfield and strikers and basically an unbalanced squad. Pelligerini on the other hand has a fantastic squad with fantastic depth so in truth, Man City should really be the ones leading based on strength of squad alone

And I never ever said anything about you not being a Chelsea fan. I just feel your posts on here are nearly always cynical to extreme ends as Mike pointed out as well ... It's alright to criticize the club except you take it to another level and unfairly so at times

Alcaraz said:
If your username did not have Chelsea inside it, I would have easily mistaken you for a Scouser or Mancunian. Just my observation anyways
 
Their is a difference between saying that you are not a Chelsea fan and saying you BEHAVE like you are not a fan of Chelsea
 
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