That line is bullishit from them, because its a crime. Where it happens is irrelevant
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That line is bullishit from them, because its a crime. Where it happens is irrelevant
Exactly. If I did that sort of ****, was working etc, I'd lose my job, and get a criminal record. And if I'm not mistaken, some people have gone to jail. I don't see why this should be kept within football. It's against the law. Imo the courts should be involved. If it ruins a players career-who's fault is that?
If it's proved, Suarez should be thanking Evra for not getting the police involved, and John Terry should be very wary indeed
Very. This is a situation that can pretty much destroy a players career, reputation...in some cases more.
On the contrary, there is (apparently) to be evidence of him saying "negrido" (spelling may be incorrect), otherwise the FA wouldnt be acting
EDIT: Its negrito
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Chokopop
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Yes, but "negrito" in Spanish could not be racist at all. I've read somewhere a few days ago that "negrito" means something like "buddy" or "pal"
No it doesnt translate as that, but Uruguay it can be used when referring to a black person in a jocular manner, but equally it can be used as jibe. and if you are hearing that as french/italian speaker as Evra is, that can translate as an insult. Now, there is no real reason to be using that on the pitch, they are not exactly close, so you have to wonder what on earth Suarez is thinking
Chokopop
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Alright, my bad. Then the article I was reading must have been flawed. Went into Google translate myself and it actually translates into "black".
Alright, I may be a Liverpool fan, but now I don't really have the same respect for Suarez as I did before. I knew he was a "controversial" player, but I never would've thought he'd be racist.
Of course, it could take a U turn and go in Suarez' favour, but calling Evra "negrido" which means "black" can't really be explained, with other than racism. I can't think of any other way at least.
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[h=1]Blatter: There is no racism in football[/h]
FIFA president Sepp Blatter claims that no racist incidents occur on the football pitch and believes any misunderstandings between players should be settled by a handshake.
The Football Association are currently dealing with two incidents where a player has been accused of racially abusing an opponent - Chelsea's John Terry and Liverpool's Luis Suarez, both of whom deny any wrongdoing, are still waiting for the outcome of FA investigations.
But asked if he thought there was racism on the pitch, the FIFA president told CNN World Sport: "I would deny it. There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players towards another, he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.
"But also the one who is affected by that, he should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.
"I think the whole world is aware of the efforts we are making against racism and discrimination. And on the field of play sometimes you say something that is not very correct, but then at the end of the game, the game is over and you have the next game where you can behave better.''
Blatter: There is no racism in football - ESPN Soccernet
Has Blatter been taking something? There is (unfortunately) racism in football.
FIFA president Sepp Blatter claims that no racist incidents occur on the football pitch and believes any misunderstandings between players should be settled by a handshake.
The Football Association are currently dealing with two incidents where a player has been accused of racially abusing an opponent - Chelsea's John Terry and Liverpool's Luis Suarez, both of whom deny any wrongdoing, are still waiting for the outcome of FA investigations.
But asked if he thought there was racism on the pitch, the FIFA president told CNN World Sport: "I would deny it. There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players towards another, he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.
"But also the one who is affected by that, he should say that this is a game. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.
"I think the whole world is aware of the efforts we are making against racism and discrimination. And on the field of play sometimes you say something that is not very correct, but then at the end of the game, the game is over and you have the next game where you can behave better.''
Blatter: There is no racism in football - ESPN Soccernet
Has Blatter been taking something? There is (unfortunately) racism in football.
it mean little black person, and it can be used in a jocular way, but context is everything, and given they are not exacly friends i dont uderstand what he was thinking. In fairness he may just have been joshing with him, but its not the smartest thing to do. Personally i'd like to think it has come down to a mix up in context that has come down to a misunderstanding. Which is why its so complex. But there is a lesson here
Blatter is a moron. he really should step down
Not sure it's quite as cut and dried as you're suggesting. Recently Dani Pacheco sent a message to (U21 squadmate and friend) Thiago Alcantara over Twitter using that word, and it translated to something roughly like "Good luck, negrito." Now I don't know Spanish, but from what I can glean it is a word used to describe people of ALL races. It can also be used for insult, however. The closest I can get to it is a less simple version of the word 'champ': it is ostensibly praise, but can definitely be used in a derogatory context.
All of this is slightly secondary to the main point, which is that Suarez was phenomenally stupid for saying it in the first place. If there's even the slightest hint of it being racist, he shouldn't even fathom saying it.
Ah didnt realise it could be used all races, knew it can be friendly though. But context is key here.
If it doesn't have strong racial connotations then I don't really see the problem, regardless of whether or not its derogatory. Should players insult each other? No, in my opinion they should all be mic'ed up, but that doesn't change the fact you know the vast majority of players yell insults at each other in the heat of the moment.
The flip side is that, though it's incredibly harsh to pick Suarez up when lots of others are equally if not more guilty, it would send out a good message: "don't run your mouth or you will be punished."
The flip side is that, though it's incredibly harsh to pick Suarez up when lots of others are equally if not more guilty, it would send out a good message: "don't run your mouth or you will be punished."
but it does have racial connotations when used as a jibe, that is the problem
I personally believe, from my admittedly limited knowledge of Spanish, that using negrido in that context is an insult but the problem arises when you try and establish if the racial element is the thrust of the jibe. Just because a word has certain meanings in certain contexts doesn't mean they are all (actively) evoked when you use it. A good example is that my gf's parents always call her and her sister *****: which to them means "a dirty, slovenly woman" in the physical sense of being messy, rather than any sexual connotation. [edit] or to give a more popular example, a judge on SCD called another judge a "silly sod". Now this too has a colloquial use and I bet almost everyone reading this has called someone a sod as a soft pejorative before. Now because that other judge is gay, there is an outroar and people are pointing to the root of sod (sodomite) to say that this was a homophobic attack.
Out of interest, would anyone be penalised this badly for calling Steven Gerrard a scouse *******? If not, would anyone care to explain why? Not trying to start a huge thing here, it's just something I've never understood.
Out of interest, would anyone be penalised this badly for calling Steven Gerrard a scouse *******? If not, would anyone care to explain why? Not trying to start a huge thing here, it's just something I've never understood.
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This is where the context is key here. Liverpool and United are not friends, its a heated derby, him and Evra have just clashed twice. In what context is that a good idea? The word itself carries a racial element, when used as a jibe it is a racist jibe, not just a jibe that is the issue. the context in which its delivered changes the meaning. In that context its very easy to see why its taken as a racist jibe. Im not saying that is how he meant it. But you can see why the FA think he has a case to answer.
In any case its very foolhardy of him to use a word that can be used offensively in a situation like that, even if he did mean it in jest. How is Evra supposed to know that? Its a murky area i agree, but its one he could have easily avoided
This would seem to conflict with what GC said about it roughly equating to champ.The problem is, because the word has a positive meaning, you can't simply say: it was used as a jeer, thus the negative racist form is evoked, because almost any word with a positive connotation can be inverted via sarcasm. Basically, even if you could prove it was used in a jeering context, you can't prove that it was used in a racial way because there are (at least) two ways it can be used as an pejorative, only one of which is racist.
Still intrigued about the scouser question though, again not trying to start a flamewar but I can't understand why it's acceptable to stereotype and devalue one group based on their speech/place of birth and not another.
Jack Fulham
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I always assumed that Scouser was a reference to someone who is from Liverpool but it has other connotations if you read urban dictionary. I don't think it is used as a derogatory term any more but then again, I don't live up North so it may be used as a derogatory term up there.