The Liverpool Thread

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Whether Sepp fulfils his massive potential or not, it just refreshingly hammers home yet again that you don't need to consistently spend £100's of millions in the market. If you get your club structure right, and have a top scouting and analytical department working off the model that fits you, with everyone open to different ideas and opinions through the process, bargains can still readily be had in this currently vastly over inflated market.

I love that more and more bigger clubs are starting to look at our approach in the transfer market and adapting their own down to how we do it differently to everybody else and can still challenge clubs like City. We can still have the 2nd most valuable squad in the world at £1 Billion or so just after City's without being backed by a whole State down to the pure intelligence we have assembled within our ranks. (The amount go PhD physicists on the analytical side alone is far leading the way in World football.).

Which all leave's you perfectly happy and content that they totally know what they're doing whether we add to a £1.3 million (potentially £4.4 Mill. based over 350 appearances domestically and in Europe) 17-year-old or not this window.

That's the implicit confidence Klopp, Edwards, Gordon and co have earned that they're doing what's right for the club in the long and short term.

Credit to FSG for putting this whole structure in place and allowing it to flourish.

When you get that, it becomes a whole lot easier (and no less cheaper), to successfully operate.
 
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Theatre of Dreams83 said:

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Liverpool have signed highly-rated 17-year-old Sepp van den Berg from PEC Zwolle for an initial £1.3million
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Kid should have gone to Ajax or one of the German teams that ain't afraid to put faith in youngsters. This looks like another case of top clubs stockpiling talented youngsters when they would be better of going to a club that will actually play them and plan their development.
 
If you honestly believe, besides anything else, we're 'stockpiling talented youngsters' just because d you haven't been paying much of any attention to our 'quality over quantity' ethos based on Atlethic Bilbao's model since Inglethorpe took charge and changed the whole academy structure 4 years or so back.

Not that this one is an academy signing per se but all relative.

And you'd be doing Klopp a serious disservice in so doing too.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
If you honestly believe, besides anything else, we're 'stockpiling talented youngsters' just because d you haven't been paying much of any attention to our 'quality over quantity' ethos based on Atlethic Bilbao's model since Inglethorpe took charge and changed the whole academy structure 4 years or so back.

Not that this one is an academy signing per se but all relative.
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Of course he is an academy signing he is only 17 and played a handful of games at a club in the bottom half of a lower league. His age also means he will come in as a school kid so this idea that he will train or have a path into the first team is hogwash as they are only allowed to train a certain number of hours due to rules. I have a strong stance on the development of young players at English clubs is waaay behind the rest of Europe. Heck even Hoever the other young kid only got his chance on the bench because of an injury crisis. Nothing wrong with buying young talent but the likelyhood of him making it here is very low and the best thing for his development would be to have gone to Ajax or a German team.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I seriously don't know where to start with that.

So much misinformation and contradiction.
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I'm just looking at it by taking off the lfc rose tinted glasses. Can you explain any misinformation or contradiction when we have seen it happen at top clubs many a times before. Young prospects come in and get lost on the side many times and just because they play a game here or there doesn't mean they will make it.
 
He is for the academy for sure. If he'd gone to Ajax he wouldn't be in the starting line-up. He'd probably play atleast another season in the 2nd team of Ajax at the 2nd level in the Netherlands.

After PEC Zwolle changed their manager during fight against regelation he was put on the bench again for a mediocre defender.

I mean he probably has a lot of talent, but in the Netherlands we tend to give youngsters a bit too early a stage on top level. It might kick-off their career, but the flaw is with all the moneyball analytics going on right now is that those players are being way over hyped.
 
dilakh2 said:
I'm just looking at it by taking off the lfc rose tinted glasses. Can you explain any misinformation or contradiction when we have seen it happen at top clubs many a times before. Young prospects come in and get lost on the side many times and just because they play a game here or there doesn't mean they will make it.
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No, you aren't. At all.

Misinformation- Schoolboy contracts.You need to brush up on the rules there. He's on a pro contract. Like the aforementioned, 16, now 17 year-old Hoever who trains full time at Melwood. (Down to the pathway you claim isn't there unlike at European clubs.). By what you wrote, he shouldn't be allowed to be there right doing that?. Or Curtis Jones and the like come to that. And has the same career plan as Hoever. To be integrated in the first team squad as soon as possible.

Contradiction - You flippantly dismiss van den Berg as 'only 17 and played a handful of games at a club in the bottom half of a lower league', so of course he's an 'academy signing.' And then you go on to repeat that he should have gone to Ajax ..... to continue playing in that 'lower league' you've just scorned!

I aren't repeating myself to type anything I've not typed previously already today on the complete misconception you have on this signing. There's more than enough out there today if you want to take the time.

But I'll credit you with being one of the very few, even on-line, to see any negativity in this from either the player or football clubs standpoint. That is quite impressive.
 
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lxl Ra lxl said:
He is for the academy for sure. ..... .
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I posted an article on the reason Stam pulled him out of the starting line-up the other day but that aside, don't confuse being 'initially in the academy' to it being an 'academy signing.'

Nottin could be further from the truth.
 
i'll read up on the school boy contracts situation as i'm sure that under 18s although on pro contracts are not allowed to train fulltime with the first team as they have education requirements. I'll agree to disagree with the idea we are better placed to offer him a path into the first team compared to Ajax etc... A good chance to progress into the first team at the lower leagues and regular games at that level is still better than waiting for an injury crisis at the top clubs.

Edit: I don't see it as a negative lfc buying a young prospect who might go on to be a world beater. If anything we are pretty decent at it as Klopp isn't afraid to give kids chances but its still not better than the rest of Europe. Anyway all im saying is that top English clubs do not have a good track record in developing these young talents and that they would be better off signing for clubs that will offer them this e.g German clubs. We have seen in it many times before and we will see it many times again.
 
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Not sure why we signed JMG at 18 either come to think of it.

He'd of been far better served either staying at Charlton or going abroad.

I see that now.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Not sure why we signed JMG at 18 either come to think of it.

He'd of been far better served either staying at Charlton or going abroad.

I see that now.
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That's a different situation as Joe came in having already played a season of first team football at a higher level. You are forgetting the club was in a different place back then and Joe only got his chance again at left back because we had Moreno the only first team left back at the time who was dropped by Rodgers. You cant compare JMG to this kid
 
dilakh2 said:
That's a different situation as Joe came in having already played a season of first team football at a higher level. You are forgetting the club was in a different place back then and Joe only got his chance again at left back because we had Moreno the only first team left back at the time who was dropped by Rodgers. You cant compare JMG to this kid
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Au contraire. Joe had 24 appearances under his belt when we left Charlton through one season of professional logger. This lad, in a much higher league, has 22 all told through 2 years. Joe was scouted for a good while and identified as a serious prospect we wanted to fast track to the first team. (Which he expedited from the get-go with his stunning pre-season displays.). The same as Hoever and van den Berg. The comparison is very much there. And Liverpool rate Sepp akin to the same standard as Joe was when they brought him from Charlton already.

You're continuing to completely ignore the clubs plans for this lad and blunder on with your nark about youth players in England.

Bobby Duncan. Isaac Christie-Davies. Matteo Ritachio. Jack Bearne etc etc. Those are 'academy signings' you hope might develop good enough to stick. Or you increase the academy's profile and level whilst they're here, give them a good grounding in their career's, and sell them on for a decent profit to fund coaching the next batch and keep the academy self-funding.

Players like Gomez, Hoever, and our first signing this summer, aren't ostensibly 'academy signings' you're taking a punt on that may or may not turn into something. They have been followed by us for a good time and project through our analysis work to be high calibre talents we regard real highly and expect to progress to the first team very quickly. As Joe and Ki-Jana, at his rapid rate last season, already have.

You're completely missing the point on this one seemingly in your zeal to fume at youth coaching in this Country.
 
I know the difference between academy players and players ear marked for first team football but the club is operating at a different level now. JMG coming in when we were a mid table club/squad is different to when we are at the top end. This new kid will be behind a whole host of first team players in his position for the foreseeable future and would be better placed signing for a club were the route to the first team isn't that stacked. The club can say they have a plan blah blah but at the end of the day at the top level results is what matters and the development of prospects isn't at the forefront. I guess unless we can both see into the future we won't know if he will make it or not but being fans of this club I hope he does and goes on to be a world beater.
 
It's like Trent, who could have been overlooked for more senior players out of Kirkby, isn't a thing. Or Brewster. Or lads like Lewis and Wilson being kept back from loan to give them a chance to show pre-season if they've made the leap to be a part of the squad. Or Lovren being gone by next summer. If he's not gone this window. With Matip in that mix too. Leaving gaps in the CH group. (Of which we currently have 4 senior centre half's. One of whom can't sneeze without being out for a few weeks.).

You're flying completely in the face of what the manager's long term aim for the club is to be producing more of our own which will only intensify from next summer 'shen everyone is together in the same facility.

It's irrelevant whether he makes it or not. The fact that he's high in their plan for the development of the squad going forward is.
 
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In this great Thursday of youth, we now have a departure-

liverpool-confirm-transfer-rafael-camacho-16499491

Not too shabby a deal for a lad who made a mere 2 appearances and was threatening to run down his contract.

At least £5 million/ potentially £7 million profit for three years coaching, plus a 20% sell-on and buy back option? When, if he'd stayed and let his contract run-down, we'd of been entitled to a mere £270K compensation? I'll take that in a heartbeat. That sorts the academy out by itself for a couple of years for the next group of Camacho's under our watch. And covers us if he does now kick-on and have a decent career.

Pity Rafa didn't want to switch to FB/WB as you feel there'd had been a good few opportunity's next season with all the extra games. But he wants to stick to being an attacker so fair play to him. He has to do what's right for his career. Which hopefully can now start in earnest back home where it all began.

All the best mate. Thanks for some great memories at youth level.


And completing this very good day of youth bits, congratulations to Abdi Sharif on his first pro-contract at 18.

Can never have enough Scousers tied down. ;)
 
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Can't wait for the squad to finally touch the 'This is Anfield sign'. Can the season start already transfer window got me bored out my mind.
 
dilakh2 said:
Can't wait for the squad to finally touch the 'This is Anfield sign'.....
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Talking of, Guardiola knows ;)-

(Taken from a long interview with Catalan paper ARA talking about the Barcelona semi: https://www.ara.cat/societat/PEPGUARDIOLA-partits-independentistes-vagin-junts_0_2261773815.html)

“I thought they’d score a goal at Anfield, and I am sure the players knew that Anfield is Anfield,” he said.

“The motto ‘This is Anfield’ is no marketing spin. There’s something about it that you will find in no other stadium in the world.

“They score a goal and over the next five minutes you feel that you’ll receive another four.

“You feel small and the rival players seem to be all over.

“We’ve all gone through what happened to Barca. They were laughing at me when we were losing 3-0 after the first 15, 20 minutes of the quarter-final.

“It’s a ****** of a ground.”


Utterly mad how every season folk STILL continue to dismiss the unique, difference making ability of Anfield in all her glory when we're fully on it. Like it's not a genuine factor and it's just another thing we just 'unbearably' go on about like it's some made-up Scouse myth.


Just how many more examples do they need?


Sidenote- The 'Unbearable' European Champions flag at Glastonbury over the weekend.


Is F right!
 
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