The Liverpool Thread

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kitchin75 said:
do you have cover if he does go and there is allways a twitter breakdown some where
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That was what I was alluding to mate as it would leave 3 vet. recognised CH's. (Uncannily the same as City with their perceived 'super-duper' squad.).

At the close of the window, I was happy he was still here purely from a 'extra body' standpoint. The first half of this season, if we remain active in the League Cup, we could play an absolutely ridiculous 26 games before January 1. With three double-game International breaks thrown-in for good measure! So with only 4 recognised vet. CH's, purely on a numbers game I was happy he was staying.

But then you sit down and think about the fact he both can't be relied upon health wise. And if he, naturally, at the stage of his career he's now at, want's to play regular football and isn't happy being demoted to 4th choice (which is a 'distant' 4th choice now the form of Matip the second half of last season), then it's pretty pointless keeping an unhappy, unreliable player and not cashing in whilst we still can.

I was staggered, even given Degsy's pretty darn woeful injury record, to read he's never put together 6 consecutive games in all his time here. Through 5-years! Mind-blowingly poor. That's the very definition of an 'injury prone' player who just can't be relied upon.

So anyone lamenting the lack of CH numbers if he does indeed leave this window needs to consider that he's hardly a reliable part of the equation himself! (He's not travelled to Istanbul today down to 'illness.').

In an extreme worst case Fabinho can comfortably slot in back there. And it just adds to Hoever's rapid progress and how highly he's viewed that they'd have no qualms in him playing in a similar circumstance either.

Lot of versatility in this squad to not be overly concerned. We'll be sound if Lovren does indeed leave. Which is probably the best for all parties all things considered.

*Edit* And there's a window in January to reasses if needs be.
 
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Gotta' say, as much as I'm buzzing on the eve of another big European Final, it's hard to be stuck in L'pool and not out in that wondrous City by the Bosporus where East meets West in a magical cultural mix. Not least when 'mates' are bouncing photies back to you. *******! Sadly just not the right time of the season for Istanbul with flight prices sky high off the back of Madrid and Qatar December. Something had to give and regrettably Istanbul was it.

Absolutely gutted to be missing out tomorrow. 2005 and Japan the CWC aside, the first final I've missed of any description since my first in 1984.

Still find it utterly mad how some folk don't think this is an important trophy to win when not only are there just three of them in UEFA competition, where the really big clubs judge themselves, but it's both an honour and privileged reward for winning one of the two European majors. With the added spice that's it's against the club that's as outright hated as any other for many Reds. Particularly older ones.

Thankfully the manager and players are as hungry as ever to maintain that winning feeling now they've got the taste.

At least the rest of Europe appreciate the significance and importance of the SC even if the majority of the insular English around the Country don't.

Here's to European trophy #13 tomorrow evening for one of UEFA's true elite aristocrats.

Up the F Mentality Monster Reds!
 
kitchin75 said:
scouse are you off to the world cup?
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Yup. Always regret not going to Japan for the experience. Figure I'm never going to visit Qatar without this excuse. Did well on the flights and hotel rooms are madly cheap for top quality we'd never have the opportunity of so we've well taken advantage of that.

After Southampton Saturday as it's the first away as European Champions and is fixing to be as wild as last Friday night I shall be jibbing quite a few league games the first half of the year with that and Europe.
 
tbf, city actually acknowledge they are light at Centre back, especially since stones can be injury prone. They aren't the best comparison.

Fabinho has only ever played 2 games at Centre back so not sure I'd call him cover. More likely to promote an academy player if there is any kind of injury
 
Come on Porto. One more!

*Edit* Bollocks. The late games have been a disappointment.

But still some belter trips from the last qualifying round if results go.
 
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Mike. said:
..... Fabinho has only ever played 2 games at Centre back so not sure I'd call him cover. More likely to promote an academy player if there is any kind of injury
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Fabinho back there would depend on the situation. You'd be sound against a lesser PL side giving one of the two Dutch kids their head. But in a worst case scenario being down a few CH's against say City, then you'd go with the experience at this stage of their respective developments. And he more than showed enough last year the couple of games he did play CH (completely outshone van Dijk at Brighton), and the times we often split the CH's wide with the FB's pushed on during games and he drops in between as virtually the deepest of anyone, that he's competent enough in a worst case to not be worried.

Finding solutions when problems arise.

*Edit* Musing aloud but I'm wondering if we might do that more, particularly the first half of this year, and keep the FB's high with the CH cover behind so they don't have to be constantly up and down? One way to 'cheat' a little and save legs the ridiculous amount of work our FB have to get through during a game.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
Fabinho back there would depend on the situation. You'd be sound against a lesser PL side giving one of the two Dutch kids their head. But in a worst case scenario being down a few CH's against say City, then you'd go with the experience at this stage of their respective developments. And he more than showed enough last year the couple of games he did play CH (completely outshone van Dijk at Brighton), and the times we often split the CH's wide with the FB's pushed on during games and he drops in between as virtually the deepest of anyone, that he's competent enough in a worst case to not be worrie
Finding solutions when problems arise.d.

*Edit* Musing aloud but I'm wondering if we might do that more, particularly the first half of this year, and keep the FB's high with the CH cover behind so they don't have to be constantly up and down? One way to 'cheat' a little and save legs the ridiculous amount of work our FB have to get through during a game.
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Dont get the complaining we are moving on an inconsistent CB in Lovren who gets sidelined by a cold. They want to promote youth but everyone has their pitchforks out that we are moving on an injury prone CB on high wages.
 
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Really happy that BT have got tonights big European Super Cup.

Their coverage P all over Sky IMHO who are becoming more and more a parody of themselves with each passing season. Poor, long past it commentators. (Tyler. Just hang up the microphone already!). Pundits who are agenda filled to fuel controversy and play the Sky game. (Carragher get's more cringeworthy the more he opens his grid the telly.). Poor presentation. Next to no fan engagement. Live games on Sky are fast past being unbearable to watch the vast majority of the time to the extent you're switching to a stream or just turning the volume completely down.

Credit to BT for hitting on a really good concept the way they do the whole package of a live game.
 
L'pool win tonight that will be our 13th European Trophy.

That's 1 more than the PL's nouveau riche Chelsea and City have League titles combined.

Levels.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Fabinho back there would depend on the situation. You'd be sound against a lesser PL side giving one of the two Dutch kids their head. But in a worst case scenario being down a few CH's against say City, then you'd go with the experience at this stage of their respective developments. And he more than showed enough last year the couple of games he did play CH (completely outshone van Dijk at Brighton), and the times we often split the CH's wide with the FB's pushed on during games and he drops in between as virtually the deepest of anyone, that he's competent enough in a worst case to not be worried.

Finding solutions when problems arise.

*Edit* Musing aloud but I'm wondering if we might do that more, particularly the first half of this year, and keep the FB's high with the CH cover behind so they don't have to be constantly up and down? One way to 'cheat' a little and save legs the ridiculous amount of work our FB have to get through during a game.
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With respect, that was Brighton. He was very good against Bayern(?) though. But again it's not real substitute for a proper 4th centre back, if only because it means you're not deploying Fabinho elsewhere, especially with Keita being so injury prone.

Re your musings: extremely dangerous, you can't spring an offside like if it's not straight and teams will simply overload your centre backs in the half spaces. You need your fullbacks coming back. Nice thinking but people have tried before and you just get massively exposed. It's why it's never a consistent tactic. Every top half quality side in the league has the ability to expose that. As do some of the lower half teams
 
Well, regarding Fabinho not being the #6 in those instances, considering we don't have a set role per se for how we view a 6, unlike the traditional deep DM the majority of teams use (even Fabinho, who is the most traditional of that ilk, isn't solely deployed as such), it allows the flexibility for a multitude of different skill sets to drop in there. As they often do through most games with the intricacies of our midfield interchanging which just adds to how unpredictable it is to plan for. (And how hard it is for anyone new to get fully down with the complexities of having to knowing not only their role but everyone else's within the system to make all the multitude of formations they go through during games work. Before you even get to the pressing side being in synch. Can't think of many more difficult roles in football than playing in a Klopp midfield. Hence why the likes of Fabinho and Keita were held back for so long last year. Really is a massively overlooked area of our side by the average fan/ pundit. Without which the lorded front three and defence fall down.). Anyone from Fabinho, Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum, now Lallana have all slotted in sound at the base dependent on what the opponent and opposition bring to the table.

I wouldn't be concerned at all personally if Fabinho had to cover at CH. And we're only talking a 'worse case' scenario situation if he did.

More than enough versatility within the squad whilst the youth develops to not be overly concerned if Lovren does indeed depart.

They wouldn't be sanctioning it if they didn't have a solution in mind for any potential problems.

Side note- Yeah he did play CH against Bayern with no van Dijk. I'd forgotten that. That just made me smile at how good that performance was. :)
 
It's no different mentally to most other top team midfields. Physically it's demanding, but again it's not out of the ordinary for any elite team past or present. Which is no surprise since he is used to working with generally average or slightly above average players. That's how all midfields work, knowing what everyone else is doing and being able to slot in and fill spaces
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Like most you’re selling his midfield, in this system, way, way WAY short there.
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No, I'm not. And considering I'm good enough at analysis to be doing it for a living and what I'm saying is largely in line with professional pure analysts, I'm pretty comfortable with saying that. Unless you're saying you're right and the professionals who watch sport for a living are wrong?
 
I was saying what I posted but I’m now saying you’ve either patently not analysed our system. Have done a proper poor analytical job if you have and your assertion is it’s no different to most top teams midfields. Or you’re just being flip for the **** if it.

At the moment it’s hard to decipher whether it’s one or all of the above?
 
Mike. said:
With respect, that was Brighton. He was very good against Bayern(?) though. But again it's not real substitute for a proper 4th centre back, if only because it means you're not deploying Fabinho elsewhere, especially with Keita being so injury prone.

Re your musings: extremely dangerous, you can't spring an offside like if it's not straight and teams will simply overload your centre backs in the half spaces. You need your fullbacks coming back. Nice thinking but people have tried before and you just get massively exposed. It's why it's never a consistent tactic. Every top half quality side in the league has the ability to expose that. As do some of the lower half teams
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Considering most games we will be dominating possesion I dont see anything wrong with deploying Fabinho at CB for a couple of games and not forgetting we have Hendo who can play the deeper midfield role quite well. The likelyhood of a 4th choice CB being needed is quite small tbh and ours happens to be injury prone to boot.
 
dilakh2 said:
Considering most games we will be dominating possesion I dont see anything wrong with deploying Fabinho at CB for a couple of games and not forgetting we have Hendo who can play the deeper midfield role quite well. The likelyhood of a 4th choice CB being needed is quite small tbh and ours happens to be injury prone to boot.
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I don't dispute a couple of games. As I say he was immense against Bayern. It's when you get to a situation where you need to play a run of games. Outside of VVD, your CBs aren't the sturdiest. Don't get me wrong I'd be selling lovren too, just carries a little risk. But then you've got some good academy players.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I was saying what I posted but I’m now saying you’ve either patently not analysed our system. Have done a proper poor analytical job if you have and your assertion is it’s no different to most top teams midfields. Or you’re just being flip for the **** if it.

At the moment it’s hard to decipher whether it’s one or all of the above?
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I have. As have others. They say the same thing. Are they all wrong? Do you have such an ego you're going to say that a solid number professionals out there are all wrong?

It's a double pivot that lets one midfielder drop deep to allow the build from the base. This is nothing new. And nothing that elite teams haven't been doing for a long time when the 4-2-3-1 was the goto formation. It's basically Bayern under Jupp Heynckes

4-3-3 it's a similar set up with the lone midfield build up.

Fabinho is basically Bastian Schweinsteiger. Which isn't a slight by any means. But we shouldn't be overselling the demand.
 
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And yet others within the game, if we're going there, have said the complete contrary to your assessment when they've taken a detailed look at just what makes this system so hard to plat in the middle of the park with all the un-typical things we ask our midfielders to do. Manager's, coaches, analytic sites et al.

So by the same token, is your ego here going to say they're wrong too? Or could it just be that opinions differ greatly in football among professionals?

So yeah, if you want to call me egotistical, sound. That's your prerogative. But if you're sticking to that assertion on our midfield, I wholeheartedly stick to my view on your analysis being very questionable in this instance.

But you patently think the same of my view so we're at a complete impasse here so it's probably best left there.
 
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