The Liverpool Thread

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I thought Webb did good. kept game from being out of control. Had ox not knocked over Suarez there was no way he was getting to the.ball as he booted to the goal line with pace. Plus Suarez leaned his.shoulder into ox and stiffened like a board so he would bounce off turf.

Had Suarez touch been better I'd agree it was a pen
 
Montanaro said:
I thought Webb did good. kept game from being out of control. Had ox not knocked over Suarez there was no way he was getting to the.ball as he booted to the goal line with pace. Plus Suarez leaned his.shoulder into ox and stiffened like a board so he would bounce off turf.

Had Suarez touch been better I'd agree it was a pen
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It was a penalty.
 
Montanaro said:
I thought Webb did good. kept game from being out of control. Had ox not knocked over Suarez there was no way he was getting to the.ball as he booted to the goal line with pace. Plus Suarez leaned his.shoulder into ox and stiffened like a board so he would bounce off turf.

Had Suarez touch been better I'd agree it was a pen
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Not sure how any one could argue that it was not a penalty. It was clear cut penalty and a very poor decision by Webb. One of many poor decisions Webb made yesterday.
 
Montanaro said:
I thought Webb did good. kept game from being out of control. Had ox not knocked over Suarez there was no way he was getting to the.ball as he booted to the goal line with pace. Plus Suarez leaned his.shoulder into ox and stiffened like a board so he would bounce off turf.

Had Suarez touch been better I'd agree it was a pen
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His touch is almost irrelevant. The ball was still in play, in the box, and he was quite clearly taken out.

Regardless of other fouls in the game this was a clear penalty.. But it's irrelevant now and I hope Howard is reprimanded for his general lack of refereeing during the match.
 
Aannddyy said:
His touch is almost irrelevant. The ball was still in play, in the box, and he was quite clearly taken out.

Regardless of other fouls in the game this was a clear penalty.. But it's irrelevant now and I hope Howard is reprimanded for his general lack of refereeing during the match.
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If you think Webb's performance is deserving of a reprimand I'd love to see your reaction to some of the performances of lower league refs lol.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to them, but people seem to expect a ridiculously high standard of refereeing. (Not talking about Webb or yesterday's game here, just making a general point).
 
alicwkd said:
If you think Webb's performance is deserving of a reprimand I'd love to see your reaction to some of the performances of lower league refs lol.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to them, but people seem to expect a ridiculously high standard of refereeing. (Not talking about Webb or yesterday's game here, just making a general point).
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I wouldn't call giving a penalty on the Suarez tackle yesterday high-standard. It's not even in a standard for me. It's just a penalty. You don't even need to be a low-standard ref to give it.

Baffles me.
 
Tezzz said:
I wouldn't call giving a penalty on the Suarez tackle yesterday high-standard. It's not even in a standard for me. It's just a penalty. You don't even need to be a low-standard ref to give it.

Baffles me.
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As I said, it was a general point rather than a specific reaction to Webb or yesterday's game. The penalty decision (or lack of it) was obviously pretty bad.
 
Subtle said:
Quality journalism. You have to wonder if the scrutiny for that De Jong kick changed him, or if he had already become like that.
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Looks like a pretty big abuse of statistics of which never even get close to showing what their headline claims.
 
I'll give them props for research, but I'm not sure their evidence is conclusive.
 
I think it just shows what most people have suspected from watching him ref games, including the Holland De Jong incident in the final. He seems to want to ref the flow of the game not the incidents.
 
Joel` said:
Looks like a pretty big abuse of statistics of which never even get close to showing what their headline claims.
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I tend to completely ignore headlines as 99% of the time it's written by the subs. I'm not sure how you can claim its an abuse of the statistics either. It's not particularly selective, it doesn't just show Webb's big decisions bottled before and after with no context, it provides a fairly comprehensive timescale to establish its argument. It's far from the factual proof claimed by the title, but it certainly displays a tendency in Webb's recent style of refereeing.
 
Subtle said:
I tend to completely ignore headlines as 99% of the time it's written by the subs. I'm not sure how you can claim its an abuse of the statistics either. It's not particularly selective, it doesn't just show Webb's big decisions bottled before and after with no context, it provides a fairly comprehensive timescale to establish its argument. It's far from the factual proof claimed by the title, but it certainly displays a tendency in Webb's recent style of refereeing.
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Because you're just throwing statistics out there and comparing them to other statistics where there's a whole lot more variables than Howard Webb. They're assuming a whole bunch of other **** when they're doing their analysis which they either haven't realised they've done, or haven't stated their assumptions, because it makes their story a whole lot worse. For instance, they say that post-2010 Webb is more likely to award a penalty to the home team. Fair, the stats show that he has indeed awarded more penalties. But if you're going to state that's a fundamental change in Webb's refereeing and not due to other factors, you're assuming that the probability of penalties that he should be awarding at home stays constant. In this case, it could just be that post-2010 the penalty incidents that he's happened to referee in happened more at home, hence the dip. They don't even attempt to account for the probabilities or argue it as another cause.

Short version: They're just assuming that correlation equals causation.
 
alicwkd said:
If you think Webb's performance is deserving of a reprimand I'd love to see your reaction to some of the performances of lower league refs lol.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to them, but people seem to expect a ridiculously high standard of refereeing. (Not talking about Webb or yesterday's game here, just making a general point).
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I expect an incredibly high standard of refereeing from somebody who is regarded as one of the best. The man who refereed the last World Cup final. I also expect referee's to be reprimanded if their overall performance in a match is awful, regardless of stature.

Subtle said:
The stats that prove Howard Webb bottles big decisions - Telegraph
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Interesting article although it seems a tad harsh on Webb. Comparing one man to the average of the rest of the league is unfair. Comparing him directly to individual peers would be a more competent way of finding answers.

Claiming random percentages about critical and non-critical penalties is utterly pointless without backing it up. So yeah, cool stats but it seems more like a quick attempt to jump on the "I hate Webb" bandwagon to grab a few extra views.

EDIT: Didn't notice before but Joel has basically said everything that is needed to say on this matter.
 
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