The Liverpool Thread

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Subtle said:
Kind of funny to see you post this in response to a loss vs a manager who is renowned for playing for draws and tight 1-0's (and getting them consistently).
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Subtle said:
? Not sure how he could have lost all but 1 semi final considering he's won the competition twice lol.
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I think it may have been with Chelsea (?) but that wasn't the main point...
 
GodCubed said:
Whoa, no no no. I've been on this particular 'Pep is inflexible' horse for a loooong time now. There's very few instances of Pep ever compromising his ideals in his entire managerial history.
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Pep plays different tactics but he sticks with the same philosophy. I for one see nothing wrong with that.



Weird thing is, despite playing against a side that deep, I don't think Rodgers really did change this season's philosophy. Liverpool still played like they were trying to exploit the space behind Chelsea, even when there wasn't any. Neville and Carragher did a great bit of analysis on it that I'll try and find.
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When you come up against one of the strongest team playing all out defense it's hard for any team to break them down. Not sure you can criticize any manager for not able to break them down and go ahead and praise the manager whose only intention was to defend and not concede. IMO it's easy to defend in numbers than break down the defense that plays with 9 in the box. This season Liverpool have scored for fun after changing his tactics from last season. Why would he change anything going into the game against Chelsea? Yes it didn't work for them , they couldn't break them down so they started to shoot from outside the box. It was defensive master class from Jose's team but the game was won because of Gerrard's slip rather than Jose's counter attacking game. Counter attacking master class was something that Carlo's madrid did against Bayern.

That's not true at all. If Chelsea's deep defensive block worked THAT effectively then Jose wouldn't play anything else and they'd have gone the season unbeaten. I'll cede that the Coutinho move was an effective one, but I haven't said that Rodgers is incapable of influencing the game, just that he's rather dogmatic in sticking to his chosen philosophy. And even then, he's nowhere near Pep's level at that.
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It worked brilliantly for them. Just that Jose won't come against teams like Liverpool who are desperate to win and attack in numbers. If Jose plays like that all season then 14 teams in the league would be happy to just sit in their box and wait for the game to end in draw. Just like Pep, Rodgers also changes his tactics and formations in the game but both stick to their philosophies. That is to attack in different ways. Even Jose is same, he sticks to his philosophy, defend first and attack on break.



Certainly this is a criticism of Mourinho. Part of it can be put down to lack of striking options, but Mourinho teams have always has breaking other teams down as their weakest facet.
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And you can say that Rodgers is not comfortable playing defensive game as their defense is not good enough, so their only way to win the game is by attacking relentlessly which hey have done brilliantly.
 
Alcaraz said:
Jose Mourinho's press conference was very telling. He basically said, if you have fast players then play lightning fast counter-attacking players. If you have intelligent players, play possession football. If you have limited players, play defensive football. Anyone who says Mourinho is 'anti-football' is rubbish. The fact is that this guy doesn't have a footballing philosophy. He is the ultimate pragmatist. Give him Messi, Xavi and Iniesta and he can play tiki-taka too
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lol, yeah after all Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Mata (when he was there) , Matic are poor players.

If Jose goes to Barca he would sell Xavi, Iniesta and Messi saying they are not good enough defensively or work hard.

Everton had almost the same team but played completely different last season and this season, it's not just the players, it's what manager wants.
 
Alcaraz said:
Jose Mourinho's press conference was very telling. He basically said, if you have fast players then play lightning fast counter-attacking players. If you have intelligent players, play possession football. If you have limited players, play defensive football. Anyone who says Mourinho is 'anti-football' is rubbish. The fact is that this guy doesn't have a footballing philosophy. He is the ultimate pragmatist. Give him Messi, Xavi and Iniesta and he can play tiki-taka too
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Are the saying the likes of Alonso, Modric, Ozil and Ronaldo are worse players/can't play tiki-taka? Maybe they won't play as well as Barcelona, because they haven't been taught it before, but Mourinho can't use it as an excuse as to why he doesn't play passing football.
 
TheFalse9 said:
Are the saying the likes of Alonso, Modric, Ozil and Ronaldo are worse players/can't play tiki-taka? Maybe they won't play as well as Barcelona, because they haven't been taught it before, but Mourinho can't use it as an excuse as to why he doesn't play passing football.
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He never actually said that. Mourinho made Madrid into the best counterattacking team in the world, so it's very possible that he was accentuating the team's biggest advantages rather than wasting time trying to out-Barca Barca.
 
Another thing worth pointing out is that 'original' tiki-taka was inflexible somewhat by design - Barca and Spain weren't very athletic so they had to play this way. The players have been pretty open about it. It'd be interesting to see what VdB does during World Cup this summer, with resurgence of Costa, Martinez, Negredo et all, they can almost play some sort of power football. :P
 
GodCubed said:
He never actually said that. Mourinho made Madrid into the best counterattacking team in the world, so it's very possible that he was accentuating the team's biggest advantages rather than wasting time trying to out-Barca Barca.
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I wouldn't say Mourinho's Madrid was the best counter-attacking team in the world, especially in his last season.
 
TheFalse9 said:
I wouldn't say Mourinho's Madrid was the best counter-attacking team in the world, especially in his last season.
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Vanjagl said:
In my book, that honer would go to Bayern.
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Whoa whoa whoa now. I'm aware that's your opinion and all, but did you watch a lot of Mou's Madrid? As an attacking side able to break down teams they were okay, as a defensive unit they were excellent, but at transitions and counterattacking they were simply the best, and one of the best counterattacking teams ever. Bayern, while good at it - like they were good at most stuff - simply weren't even in Madrid's league when it comes to counterattacking transitions. Speaking of leagues, Bayern weren't even the best counterattackers in their own, given Dortmund's presence!
 
TheFalse9 said:
I wouldn't say Mourinho's Madrid was the best counter-attacking team in the world, especially in his last season.
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Not sure how you can make that statement considering Dortmund completely murdered them on the counter.
 
GodCubed said:
Not altogether too unrealistic either. He's happy at Sevilla and in Seville and he loves the club, but they're not in the CL spots this year. Who knows...
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Think they will be stubborn and make sure any team that wants him pays the release clause (25 million i think)
 
GodCubed said:
Whoa whoa whoa now. I'm aware that's your opinion and all, but did you watch a lot of Mou's Madrid? As an attacking side able to break down teams they were okay, as a defensive unit they were excellent, but at transitions and counterattacking they were simply the best, and one of the best counterattacking teams ever. Bayern, while good at it - like they were good at most stuff - simply weren't even in Madrid's league when it comes to counterattacking transitions. Speaking of leagues, Bayern weren't even the best counterattackers in their own, given Dortmund's presence!
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BVB outplayed Real Madrid, they won on CA. Bayern although it not pure CA football was still best at it. Their mix of high pressing/caught defenders on wrong foot was amazing, they would start CA in opponents half.
 
Vanjagl said:
BVB outplayed Real Madrid, they won on CA. Bayern although it not pure CA football was still best at it. Their mix of high pressing/caught defenders on wrong foot was amazing, they would start CA in opponents half.
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Counter attacking involves the opposition attacking and Dortmund didn't do that meaning Madrid couldn't counter attack so you cant really compare Madrid and Dortmund in one match
 
LFCMarshall said:
Counter attacking involves the opposition attacking and Dortmund didn't do that meaning Madrid couldn't counter attack so you cant really compare Madrid and Dortmund in one match
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Yes, you can. Just look at Bayern last season. Dominating everybody but still scoring loads of goals on counterattack.
 
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