The Liverpool Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

That's true.. There are very little true value for money deals out there now and that's only going to continue.

Di Maria was overpriced, but he is the type of player that can change the game on his own and if he does return to the form of the beginning of the season United will be a completely different team

Absolutely. But that's a big 'if.'

From his debut at Burnley (was it IIRC?). through those early games (Leicester comes instantly to mind for a wonderful individual display, even if Utd ultimately self destructed); I was ready to hold my hand up and eat my words about him being the right player but the totally wrong situation. Then the rest of the season happened .....

And now teams have even more tape on him and he's not that early 'unknown quantity' to defenders and they're better prepared in their approach to him; it's a big 'if' for him to live upto anything like the investment.

Certainly a real interesting one to watch the second season. He was better the back end but nothing like what the tag carries. Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way it is.

 

[damola3]

Gignac is world class? Charlie Austin is world class? Berahino is almost world class? Franco De Santo, Aubameyang, Sakho, Cisse, Maxi Lopez, all world class or there abouts?

Again, Higuain has done this for many consecutive years, at the highest level in top competitions. Have any of them done it over 5 seasons?

 

[sunilvk7]

Again, Higuain has done this for many consecutive years, at the highest level in top competitions. Have any of them done it over 5 seasons?

Di Natale. His record is much better than Higuain in the last 5 years.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Moving back to Liverpool, we seriously need to move on a forward this week and get everyone on board before we jet off on tour.

Whomever that is, they need to decided and act.

 

[damola3]

That's true.. There are very little true value for money deals out there now and that's only going to continue.

Di Maria was overpriced, but he is the type of player that can change the game on his own and if he does return to the form of the beginning of the season United will be a completely different team

1 slightly above average season in a new league and country surely doesn't validate what a player has done for many years? You can argue whether the players have played up to their fee or not, but they are proven world class players. Mesut Özil has been the star of the German team and has carried them to the 2014 world cup. He scored almost a goal a game in qualifying and has pretty much proven all at international level. Since 2008, only Lionel Messi has had more assists in the top 5 European league's. I don't see how Özil isn't world class. That's quite laughable. He's arguably the best in the world in his position.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... I don't see how Özil isn't world class. That's quite laughable. He's arguably the best in the world in his position.

Sure Chelsea are (rightly) laughing much harder at Hazard's consistent, difference making contribution for £10 million less whilst Arsenal remain pretty much as they were.

2 years in.

But hey, if you're happy with him then great. Not my club blowing that money in this instance so neither here nor there to me.

 

[damola3]

Sure Chelsea are (rightly) laughing much harder at Hazard's consistent, difference making contribution for £10 million less whilst Arsenal remain pretty much as they were.

2 years in.

But hey, if you're happy with him then great. Not my club blowing that money in this instance so neither here nor there to me.

Again, comparing 2 completely different players proves nothing. Mesut Özil has had 6 months out at Arsenal due to knee injuries. The money on Özil has by no means been wasted at this point. He's been excellent this season when fit to play. £42.5 million is cheap for a well established world class playee, that's the core of the best national team in the world.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Again, comparing 2 completely different players proves nothing. Mesut Özil has had 6 months out at Arsenal due to knee injuries. The money on Özil has by no means been wasted at this point. He's been excellent this season when fit to play. £42.5 million is cheap for a well established world class playee, that's the core of the best national team in the world.

I see.

£42.5 million buys you 2 FA Cups these days huh and nothing else to what happened prior to paying it?

Man, you don't get much for your buck in todays game huh?

 

[damola3]

I see.

£42.5 million buys you 2 FA Cups these days huh and nothing else to what happened prior to paying it?

Man, you don't get much for your buck in todays game huh?

Firstly, when we signed Özil, the squad was far worse than it is now. Secondly, what's so poor about back to back cup wins?

 

[Subtle]

I'm not saying Higuain is world class, but nearly all of those players mentioned do not have a consistent 1 in 2 record and most dont have a single 1 in 2 record...

21 in 36(2) for Gignac, 18 in 35 for Austin, 13 in 26 for De Santo, 11 in 11(11) for Cisse, 16 in 31(2) for Auba, 14 in 28(6) for Berahino in the games he played centrally, 10 in 20(3) for Sakho, 8 in 8(10) for Lopez in the games he played for Torino.

So all either just over, on the line or just below. It's worth pointing out that Higuain is only just over the line himself this season.

As for consistency, Cisse has had 1-2 3 times in his career, with another season coming close, Gignac has done it twice, again with another season coming close, ditto Sakho, Auba has done it twice and come close to it 2 other times, Charlie Austin has actually gone 1-2 more often than not but tbf he has played his way up through the leagues, Lopez has done it twice...

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Firstly, when we signed Özil, the squad was far worse than it is now. Secondly, what's so poor about back to back cup wins?

Nothing. I wasn't denigrating the FA Cup at all. And to retain it all credit to you.

But when you pay £42.5 million, you expect that purchase to be the difference maker in kicking you on. Arsenal are still as close to winning the league as when you made the purchase. (Nowhere near in reality.). And are still crashing out of Europe the first knock-out stage every year.

For such a 'World Class' player as you claim, he should be having a FAR bigger influence on Arsenal than that. And that's not even starting on his woeful goals and assists contribution since he's been in England.

We'll have to agree to disagree as this is going nowhere, suffice to say your view of what constitutes 'World class' and how much value you've gotten for such a fee differs massively from mine.

 

[Average Joe]

Maxi Lopez is dog **** lol. He's 31 and not scored 100 goals in his club career in well over 300 games.

That's all I can be arsed to type on the matter

 

[LFCMarshall]

21 in 36(2) for Gignac, 18 in 35 for Austin, 13 in 26 for De Santo, 11 in 11(11) for Cisse, 16 in 31(2) for Auba, 14 in 28(6) for Berahino in the games he played centrally, 10 in 20(3) for Sakho, 8 in 8(10) for Lopez in the games he played for Torino.

So all either just over, on the line or just below. It's worth pointing out that Higuain is only just over the line himself this season.

As for consistency, Cisse has had 1-2 3 times in his career, with another season coming close, Gignac has done it twice, again with another season coming close, ditto Sakho, Auba has done it twice and come close to it 2 other times, Charlie Austin has actually gone 1-2 more often than not but tbf he has played his way up through the leagues, Lopez has done it twice...

I've just gone off overall stats of their careers and the majority of those names have average at best scoring records (Obviously the team they play for says ALOT. Re. Austin and Poole)

i get your point but Higuain's consistency is not comparable to these

 

[damola3]

Nothing. I wasn't denigrating the FA Cup at all. And to retain it all credit to you.

But when you pay £42.5 million, you expect that purchase to be the difference maker in kicking you on. Arsenal are still as close to winning the league as when you made the purchase. (Nowhere near in reality.). And are still crashing out of Europe the first knock-out stage every year.

For such a 'World Class' player as you claim, he should be having a FAR bigger influence on Arsenal than that. And that's not even starting on his woeful goals and assists contribution since he's been in England.

We'll have to agree to disagree as this is going nowhere, suffice to say your view of what constitutes 'World class' and how much value you've gotten for such a fee differs massively from mine.

Mesut Özil was signed as the best performer in his position in world football for 5 seasons at 24 years old when we signed him. He could have easily cost 60-70 million at the time. Eden Hazard was a risky signing, who had only played a season or two of French league football, who costed £35 million. Özil has literally nothing to prove in terms of ability. He managed 5 goals and 9 assists in his first 14 games at Arsenal and struggled to keep up with winter. Need I remind you that he's missed 30 league games due to knee injuries he's essentially only played a season.

 

[Subtle]

I've just gone off overall stats of their careers and the majority of those names have average at best scoring records (Obviously the team they play for says ALOT. Re. Austin and Poole)

i get your point but Higuain's consistency is not comparable to these

He only clarified that it had to be over a consistent amount of time after people pulled him up on it tbf, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

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[Scouseinthehouse]

^^^^^ LOVED the way Ings turned down 7, 8 and 9 saying he had to earn one of those like the legends that have gone before.

 

[dilakh2]

Judging a player using stats is BS, stats can be manipulated in any way. e.g benteke has 40 plus goals for villa. when you look at that you must think **** his amazing. another stats for you 75% of benteke goals have been headers.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Judging a player using stats is BS, stats can be manipulated in any way. e.g benteke has 40 plus goals for villa. when you look at that you must think **** his amazing. another stats for you 75% of benteke goals have been headers.

If we panic and buy him, let alone pay the RC, I honestly give up.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Judging a player using stats is BS, stats can be manipulated in any way. e.g benteke has 40 plus goals for villa. when you look at that you must think **** his amazing. another stats for you 75% of benteke goals have been headers.

Actually, Benteke has only scored 13 headers in 42 goals. Therefore 30% of his goals have been headers... But people suggest he is only that type of player because that's what they want to think