The Manchester United Thread

[Theatreof Dreams]

No need. If anything it sums it up.

Word is Dybala is off to Juve

Yeah read that also. Apparently Chelsea bid and was to low, so now Juve are faves and deal is close.

 

[Mike.]

Yeah read that also. Apparently Chelsea bid and was to low, so now Juve are faves and deal is close.

Wouldn't have expected Chelsea to bid to be honest, interesting.

 

[CJACKO11]

We have 4 really good chances to score. That's not much of a defensive masterclass.

4 chances? I'd say Rooney's and Falcao's but that was it. Courtois had 1 proper save to make from McNair from 25 yards out. Both sides ended up with 2 shots on target and both sides hit the woodwork once.

Its actually mad that people think Jose didn't set up to play this way, Zouma in midfield and 1 proper winger with Oscar in there to sit narrow too. At this current time with so many players out of form Chelsea out of possession is a far dangerous animal than Chelsea with possession. Utd did not threaten as much as some of you seem to think, i was far more nervous listening to the QPR game last week or the Stoke game a couple of weeks ago than seeing the game out yesterday. Pot shots and blocks were the man reason you ended up with 15 shots on goal.

Just last week i said on a Chelsea Facebook page that we will scrape our way to this title playing every game like an away fixture i.e sitting back letting sides have possession and then hitting on the counter. I'd agree that when we did have the ball we didn't use it good enough which goes back to my recent point that so many players are out of form at the moment. That and being without our 1st and 2nd choice striker that took a lot out of our potential attacks.

Utd are going in the right direction no doubt about it and i can see why your all getting excited etc etc. But you still have a lot to do and Chelsea will strengthen in the summer too so it means your summer will have to be faultless to overtake us. As i said a decent Utd performance which you would probably have beaten all the other Premier League sides with a performance like that, just not us you played into our hands.

 

[Subtle]

typical ground covered, tackles made, robustness of play etc. I wouldnt mention tempo because that varies between clubs in both leagues by some way

Many variables to it. The intensity at which players have to play for prolonged periods due to fast paced nature of the game. The way teams and defenders operate and the leeway referee's give as well as pyscological impetus from fans. The Benitez article from a few pages back nicely sums things up

There's definitely a difference but it's honestly not that much. I haven't watched that much football outside of Chelsea this year but I distinctly remember Atletico and Levante kicking seven shades of **** out of plenty of teams for the past couple of seasons. The roughness of the English game is often overstated because it suits the narrative. That narrative is perpetuated because our media is full of apologists (people who need an excuse for why we have prioritised physicality over technique for so long), ex-pros (who still think of the PL as being a real man's league, unsuitable for dainty foreigners) and sarcastic cynics (who tend to get lost in their own despairing nature). It's also fairly heavily pushed by pundits and commentators because it feeds nicely into the whole GREATEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD(tm) thing, as it both gives us a easy way to praise players in our league and belittle the achievements of those playing elsewhere.

 

[Legend Incredible]

4 chances? I'd say Rooney's and Falcao's but that was it. Courtois had 1 proper save to make from McNair from 25 yards out. Both sides ended up with 2 shots on target and both sides hit the woodwork once.

Its actually mad that people think Jose didn't set up to play this way, Zouma in midfield and 1 proper winger with Oscar in there to sit narrow too. At this current time with so many players out of form Chelsea out of possession is a far dangerous animal than Chelsea with possession. Utd did not threaten as much as some of you seem to think, i was far more nervous listening to the QPR game last week or the Stoke game a couple of weeks ago than seeing the game out yesterday. Pot shots and blocks were the man reason you ended up with 15 shots on goal.

Just last week i said on a Chelsea Facebook page that we will scrape our way to this title playing every game like an away fixture i.e sitting back letting sides have possession and then hitting on the counter. I'd agree that when we did have the ball we didn't use it good enough which goes back to my recent point that so many players are out of form at the moment. That and being without our 1st and 2nd choice striker that took a lot out of our potential attacks.

Utd are going in the right direction no doubt about it and i can see why your all getting excited etc etc. But you still have a lot to do and Chelsea will strengthen in the summer too so it means your summer will have to be faultless to overtake us. As i said a decent Utd performance which you would probably have beaten all the other Premier League sides with a performance like that, just not us you played into our hands.

Mata also had a chance himself...

 

[Legend Incredible]

We lost but we retained our honor...

 

[Tyton]

Yeah the whole masterplan narrative is complete horseshit. Nobody deliberately sets up a team to play for 25% possession at home, not even Mourinho. Especially when the opposition is playing two teenagers in the backline. Chelsea were cleary trying to press high up the pitch early, they just failed as **** at it and resorted to parking the bus. United had plenty of half-chances too, so it wasn't some godlike dominative defensive performance, either.

And don't get me wrong here, I'm fine with Chelsea playing this way, **** I love them playing this way. Everybody is trying to be Barcelona these days and its so refreshing and FUN to see a team shamelessly grind out result with defensive football and always making all this free-floowing pwetty possession football crash and burn.

But this whole post-game we-all-planned-this revisionism is just typical Mourinho's media nonsense.

 

[dasty]

I can't believe that people think we would not be able to cope with playing in 4 tournaments after missing CL one season. ONE season.

By the way Depay scored a peach of a freekick and wins the Eredivise title!
https://vine.co/v/eztZgnJZa5j

 

[Alcaraz]

There's definitely a difference but it's honestly not that much. I haven't watched that much football outside of Chelsea this year but I distinctly remember Atletico and Levante kicking seven shades of **** out of plenty of teams for the past couple of seasons. The roughness of the English game is often overstated because it suits the narrative. That narrative is perpetuated because our media is full of apologists (people who need an excuse for why we have prioritised physicality over technique for so long), ex-pros (who still think of the PL as being a real man's league, unsuitable for dainty foreigners) and sarcastic cynics (who tend to get lost in their own despairing nature). It's also fairly heavily pushed by pundits and commentators because it feeds nicely into the whole GREATEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD(tm) thing, as it both gives us a easy way to praise players in our league and belittle the achievements of those playing elsewhere.

Thats your own opinion. I gave plenty of statiscal and anecdotal evidence which says otherwise. Either way, my argument really was never about the difference in physical demands between the EPL and La Liga until Mike. decided to completely straw man it and make it so which he usually does before blaming others for confusing the issue

 

[Alcaraz]

Yeah the whole masterplan narrative is complete horseshit. Nobody deliberately sets up a team to play for 25% possession at home, not even Mourinho. Especially when the opposition is playing two teenagers in the backline. Chelsea were cleary trying to press high up the pitch early, they just failed as **** at it and resorted to parking the bus. United had plenty of half-chances too, so it wasn't some godlike dominative defensive performance, either.

And don't get me wrong here, I'm fine with Chelsea playing this way, **** I love them playing this way. Everybody is trying to be Barcelona these days and its so refreshing and FUN to see a team shamelessly grind out result with defensive football and always making all this free-floowing pwetty possession football crash and burn.

But this whole post-game we-all-planned-this revisionism is just typical Mourinho's media nonsense.

I don't know who mentioned that it was a 'defensive master class' . I explicity stated that the title of the article was misleading as it was exaggerated. However, what I did take issue with was when people started conflating this performance with the one West Ham gave at Stamford Bridge last season despite them being totally different. One was by a side that had no game plan other than hoping for the best while the other was by a side that deliberately set out to play that way to stifle the opposition

Also aside from 2-3 clear cut chances from both sides, united only had half chances which kind of supports the point that we restricted them decently. Not well yes but decently

 

[sunilvk7]

I don't know who mentioned that it was a 'defensive master class' . I explicity stated that the title of the article was misleading as it was exaggerated. However, what I did take issue with was when people started conflating this performance with the one West Ham gave at Stamford Bridge last season despite them being totally different. One was by a side that had no game plan other than hoping for the best while the other was by a side that deliberately set out to play that way to stifle the opposition

Also aside from 2-3 clear cut chances from both sides, united only had half chances which kind of supports the point that we restricted them decently. Not well yes but decently

One team works on **** budget and a low level players and other team spends 100 Million every year and have world class attackers in the team.

West Ham had the plan and it was to crowd the box and it worked fine for them just like Jose's plans worked for him.

 

[Sherkey]

Thats your own opinion. I gave plenty of statiscal and anecdotal evidence which says otherwise. Either way, my argument really was never about the difference in physical demands between the EPL and La Liga until Mike. decided to completely straw man it and make it so which he usually does before blaming others for confusing the issue

Actually, it kinda was.. Well, atleast, you brought it up when you mentioned the core of the squad. Which was what started the thing about physically demanding leagues.

How exactly is it a weak point to make? Many of these players might be used to 2-3 competitions in less physically demanding leagues like Spain but are not used to having 4 competitions to deal with in a physically demanding league like the EPL with no winter break and fixture like-up at Christmas. Even Di Maria struggled with physical demands of the league despite being La Decima winner, La Liga winner and WC finalist

Considering that some of your players that will feature heavily will be people like Rojo, Herrera, Blind, Di Maria, Shaw who all have never played 4 comps together at once in a physically demanding league with no winer break. How exactly is it a weak point to make? In fact even LVG has never had to experience something like this although he is a very experienced manager so he will probably know what to do

IT was logical then to point out that EPL is not that much more physically demanding no? How was it a straw-man arguement? Well, the only potential problem could be the lack of winter-break, but with the main core of our squad used to competing on all fronts, and with us strengthening and with rotation present, shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Alcaraz]

Actually, it kinda was.. Well, atleast, you brought it up when you mentioned the core of the squad. Which was what started the thing about physically demanding leagues.
IT was logical then to point out that EPL is not that much more physically demanding no? How was it a straw-man arguement? Well, the only potential problem could be the lack of winter-break, but with the main core of our squad used to competing on all fronts, and with us strengthening and with rotation present, shouldn't be much of a problem.

No it isn't logical because new players like Blind and Rojo didn't not come from the La Liga. Also the idea of physical demanding was only one aspect of what was a wider argument which was conveniently ignored and actually shrunk to speculative arguments like 'if, buts and maybes'. The only thing that irritates me is that others do that and then accuses me of being all over the place with my point. Anyways I am done talking about this, PM me if you want to continue

 

[sunilvk7]

Anderson played in PL for 7-8 yeas in a team which competed for 4 trophies, still can't play 1 full game in a week.
Herrera played in La Liga in a team which played in 2-3 competitions, but his stamina is amazing, same with Tevez who was from South America but he could play 3 games in a week without any issues.

It all depends on individuals, nothing to with leagues. (there is but not a big difference maker).

 

[Alcaraz]

Anderson played in PL for 7-8 yeas in a team which competed for 4 trophies, still can't play 1 full game in a week.
Herrera played in La Liga in a team which played in 2-3 competitions, but his stamina is amazing, same with Tevez who was from South America but he could play 3 games in a week without any issues.

It all depends on individuals, nothing to with leagues. (there is but not a big difference maker).

Come on now, are you really going to use Anderson as your shining example. You are better than that. We all know Anderson has other problems to deal with. Incidentally, where is he now?

 

[sunilvk7]

Come on now, are you really going to use Anderson as your shining example. You are better than that. We all know Anderson has other problems to deal with. Incidentally, where is he now?

Let me put it in other way, if we sign any player with Fergie in charge then there is no question of burning out as he is the master of rotation. Same can't be said about many mangers who stick with theirs starting 11 no matter what. Fatigue comes into play later in the season. So it all depends on how good manager is in using full squad.

Is Van Gaal capable of that? I don't know as I haven't followed his career closely but the way he used all his players in the world cup was fantastic.

 

[Mike.]

Let me put it in other way, if we sign any player with Fergie in charge then there is no question of burning out as he is the master of rotation. Same can't be said about many mangers who stick with theirs starting 11 no matter what. Fatigue comes into play later in the season. So it all depends on how good manager is in using full squad.

Is Van Gaal capable of that? I don't know as I haven't followed his career closely but the way he used all his players in the world cup was fantastic.

Van Gaal rotates very well, his few rarities are his captain and defensive leader. But they are also chosen partly for their ability to play almost every game for continuity

 

[Mike.]

Van Gaal rotates very well, his few rarities are his captain and defensive leader. But they are also chosen partly for their ability to play almost every game for continuity

[TABLE="width: 454"]
[TR]
[TH="align: center"]La Liga[/TH]
[TH="align: center"]Distance Covered[/TH]
[TH="align: center"]Premier League[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Per Player
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10508[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Distance covered (m)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10494[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]273[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Distance in sprint (+24 km/h)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]264[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]322[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]High Speed (21-24 km/h)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]297[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]595[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]High Intensity[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 561[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Our Data from other Seasons
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]11072[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Total Distance covered[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11174[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]489[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]High Intensity[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]530[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


That's the table from the statistical site, it backs up my point that the EPL is not that much more physical than La Liga. In fact it's showing what most people know, the trend is that the gap has been shrinking. Certainly in the CL we have been overtaken somewhat in the high intensity stakes, as they were part of the reason Chelsea, City and Arsenal crashed out.

 

[Mike.]

Let me put it in other way, if we sign any player with Fergie in charge then there is no question of burning out as he is the master of rotation. Same can't be said about many mangers who stick with theirs starting 11 no matter what. Fatigue comes into play later in the season. So it all depends on how good manager is in using full squad.

Is Van Gaal capable of that? I don't know as I haven't followed his career closely but the way he used all his players in the world cup was fantastic.

One of the issues we had this season is not having enough games for all the players. CL and trying to not to get knocked out of the league cup after one game will help, along with a bit of trimming. Should also add, he doesn't really rotate his GK either.

 

[sunilvk7]

Actually those stats are from 2011 and are not worthy anymore. Its so obvious for anyone who watch CL that European teams have improved immensely when it comes to physicality. Bayern Munich team's stamina is just amazing. Now many European teams can out run and out muscle PL teams.