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The Manchester United Thread

May 1, 2015
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Sigh. Maguire was not worth 80 Mn …..
I disagree with a lot of your post mate, but thats by-the-by. It’s all subjective opinion and it’d be mad if we all agreed on everything. 🍻 (Or you’re chatting tiring ‘b/s’ seemingly if I don’t agree with you dependent on your POV. 🤦‍♂️But I digress ….)

What you can’t ignore, however, is the inescapable fact, whether anyone think it’s harsh or not, is Maguire IS an £80 million footballer. And when you pay the mega money, you are paying for elite, difference making, best in position to take you over the top. Even in todays ‘money no object’ game the mega-money transfers are rare for that very reason. You cite van Dijk for a very good reason. He, more than any other defender, embodies that. He’s the Messi/ Ronaldo of CH’s in so far as he’s on one level all on his own. Then there’s a sizeable drop off to the next level/ group of players. Who are some top players in their own right. But not at his exceptional level. If he wasn’t, there’s absolutely NO way L’pool would have risked that crazy money on a complete difference making player. They indentified what they needed and wouldn’t compromise. It would have ruined them for one. But thats exactly why you pay that amount of money. For best in class.

So when a player, ANY player, is nothing like that, but commands a mega-money fee (regardless of how stupid or not we view the buying club with their money), the point still stands.

Love it or hate it, thats the harsh reality of the mega stakes at play.
 

Sherkey

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I disagree with a lot of your post mate, but thats by-the-by. It’s all subjective opinion and it’d be mad if we all agreed on everything. 🍻 (Or you’re chatting tiring ‘b/s’ seemingly if I don’t agree with you dependent on your POV. 🤦‍♂️But I digress ….)

What you can’t ignore, however, is the inescapable fact, whether anyone think it’s harsh or not, is Maguire IS an £80 million footballer. And when you pay the mega money, you are paying for elite, difference making, best in position to take you over the top. Even in todays ‘money no object’ game the mega-money transfers are rare for that very reason. You cite van Dijk for a very good reason. He, more than any other defender, embodies that. He’s the Messi/ Ronaldo of CH’s in so far as he’s on one level all on his own. Then there’s a sizeable drop off to the next level/ group of players. Who are some top players in their own right. But not at his exceptional level. If he wasn’t, there’s absolutely NO way L’pool would have risked that crazy money on a complete difference making player. They indentified what they needed and wouldn’t compromise. It would have ruined them for one. But thats exactly why you pay that amount of money. For best in class.

So when a player, ANY player, is nothing like that, but commands a mega-money fee (regardless of how stupid or not we view the buying club with their money), the point still stands.

Love it or hate it, thats the harsh reality of the mega stakes at play.
If you're quoting mega stakes, Scouse, lets look at the things currently happening. Other than van Dijk, Ramos, Varane (possibly) and maybe Marquinhos, I'd be hard-pressed to find a defender clearly heads and tails above Maguire. Better than him in some aspects? Sure. Do you have players who suit a system? Sure. But as a defender, on a completely different level to Maguire? I doubt it.

I wouldn't take a Gomez (potential, definitely. plenty of mistakes, too), Matip (glass cannon) or Konate over him. Nor would I consider Stones (maybe Dias, but I'll reserve that after his second season). Definitely none of Chelsea's bunch. Arsenal and Tottenham don't even come into the equation.

Then, you go international. Nobody at Barca. Or Real (I honestly don't rate Alaba as much, his pace covers for a lot of positional faults). OR Atleti, as of now (although Gimenez is good). Then, Germany, and there's barely anyone. Hummels is worse than Maguire at his faults. Boateng is good, but old. Italy has Chiellini and Bonucci, but their age and declining pace over an entire seasons means I wouldn't hedge my bets too much there too. de Ligt, however, is good.

Point is, you act like 80 Mn. gets you a faultless player every single time - the truth is farthest from that. You lucked out with van Dijk, but he is the exception, not the rule. Almost all of the top CBs in the world all have their faults along with their good points. They have systems that suit those players. But as an overall defender who plays out the back, Maguire is pretty good for all his faults.

He consistently is at a 6.5-7 most days, which is pretty good, considering he has Lindelof next to him and keeper rotation behind him (with two drastically differing styles). If you're naming top 10 CBs currently overall in the world, basis their strengths and weakness, Maguire does have a strong chance of being named there. There are youngsters with more potential, but we are talking current ability.

You however, are of the opinion that he is walking trash. IS he worth 80 Mn.? Probably not. Is he utter ****? **** no. He is a good defender (and I'm not even a Maguire fan, FFS). In that sense, we are diametrically opposite. He definitely has made a drastic difference to our defence. Also, he would walk into 4 other defences of the supposed top 6 (minus Liverpool, since the demands are different).

Plus, transfer valuation does not equate to player valuation. For all the mad sums being touted about for Kane, there is no way he is worthy of 160 Mn. (that's madness). But that's what Kane is valued at by Tottenham, and that's what City will have to potentially pay to get him. He doesn't automatically become a MEssi/Ronaldo at those sums, but he might make a difference to that frontline, and that's what they might have to pay.
 
May 1, 2015
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You're still missing the point by a Country mile mate.

If van Dijk was a Maguire, there's absolutely NO way we'd have entertained even a £40/50 million purchase as you bracketed him. (Again, we are MILE's apart in how we view him and agreeing that there's not a slew of defenders far better/ he'd get nowhere near another top sides backline. He's a glorified Nat Phillips IMHO and those type of very limited defenders are ten a penny. But that's subjective opinion and all good.). As he's not the difference-making, top bracket player we needed. Which is what you pay the mega-money money for.

We'll have to agree to disagree on his ability but you just can't escape the fee whether you think it's harsh on a player or not. And not least when, by common consensus in this here thread alone, Utd now need to sign someone to 'cover his weakness'. It's utter mad fandom to argue that an £80 million investment needs someone to make up for what he lacks and claim he isn't a flop. It just is.

Those are the stakes mate and the harsh reality when you play them.
 

Vanjagl

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Even van Dijk isn't flawless. He can be reckless in possession with occasional lapses in concentration.
You want your CB pair to complement eachother. Lindelof was "the guy", but he unfortunately isn't. He's mediocre at everything at best. Bailly is uber athletic but that guy is a walking mistake. United doesn't need another CB to hold Maguires hand, they need a competent defender who doesn't need Maguire to hold their hand.

Scouse will never admit it, and not just him, and thats fine, but Maguire is slowly but surely showing that he is world class.
Can't blood y ( why is ****** a bad word? lol ) wait for season to start.
 
May 1, 2015
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Nobody who wanted to be taken seriously would ever claim Maguire is showing he’s ‘World class’ (If he is, we badly need to raise the asking price for Nat. We’re massively under-selling him if thats the case.).

That part certainly is true.

Pogba has World class ability. Even if he doesn’t show it anywhere near consistently enough to be classed as that.

Sancho is well on the way to becoming World class.

Maguire on the other hand is the outlier of the mega-money men in the squad. (Which flips back to dialkhs point that the reaiuces between the two clubs are WORLDS apart when Alisson and van Dijk are the outliers and not the norm over the years. But I digress …..).

All the rest of the league can say is LONG may Maguire and A N Other continue at the heart of Utd’s defence as he makes you smile more than anyone when you see him not only on the team sheet, but captaining one of the biggest clubs in World football. A BIG snile.

I’ll leave this at that as it’s rolling around in circles.
 
Jan 6, 2015
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The fact that that Legend Incredimaria guy (who's a massive bandwagoner btw) is liking his posts says enough.
Why do I bother? There's a reason why I dont read The S*n or similar ****. Same goes for this forum, would rather not to read his bs time and time again.
I mean, your point of Liverpool needing to buy center backs to "accommodate" VVD is a bit absurd. Why would Liverpool get a defender to accommodate the most complete defender in the league? (At least prior to his injury).
 
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Dec 13, 2017
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Each to there own football is all about opinion etc. But Maguire is definitely a top CB not WC currently. If he continues this form from the new year till now through next season then we can talk about him young the WC level.
 
Jan 6, 2015
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Even van Dijk isn't flawless. He can be reckless in possession with occasional lapses in concentration.
You want your CB pair to complement eachother. Lindelof was "the guy", but he unfortunately isn't. He's mediocre at everything at best. Bailly is uber athletic but that guy is a walking mistake. United doesn't need another CB to hold Maguires hand, they need a competent defender who doesn't need Maguire to hold their hand.

Scouse will never admit it, and not just him, and thats fine, but Maguire is slowly but surely showing that he is world class.
Can't blood y ( why is ****** a bad word? lol ) wait for season to start.
Not sure we both watch the same sport. VVD...reckless in possession? What? Sure, he may have had a few poor games from time to time but that is by no means a staple in his game.

Also, if Maguire is showing he's world class, the club wouldn't be looking to sign Varane then. Simple as that. If you're trying to use the euros for example, Xhaka also looked world class for switzerland as well and he's absolute dross. You claim I'm a "bandwagoner" but I'm a realist. I'd never agree with Scouse that Maguire is a glorified Nat Philips but I'd never call him world class either. That word gets thrown around too easily these days
 
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Dec 13, 2017
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Not sure we both watch the same sport. VVD...reckless in possession? What? Sure, he may have had a few poor games from time to time but that is by no means a staple in his game.

Also, if Maguire is showing he's world class, the club wouldn't be looking to sign Varane then. Simple as that. If you're trying to use the euros for example, Xhaka also looked world class for switzerland as well and he's absolute dross. You claim I'm a "bandwagoner" but I'm a realist. I'd never agree with Scouse that Maguire is a glorified Nat Philips but I'd never call him world class either. That word gets thrown around too easily these days
I don’t think he’s using the Euros solely mate I think he judging him from his new year form onwards. Even before that he wasn’t terrible but things clearly were affecting him from what happened in Greece early on in the season.

Like I said for me he’s not world class but could get in that bracket with this continued form throughout next season.

This is to anyone on here but in general i have noticed. There can’t seem to be any middle ground or objectivity with Maguire in the football world. He’s either wank or a flop or some go way overboard
 
Jan 6, 2015
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I don’t think he’s using the Euros solely mate I think he judging him from his new year form onwards. Even before that he wasn’t terrible but things clearly were affecting him from what happened in Greece early on in the season.

Like I said for me he’s not world class but could get in that bracket with this continued form throughout next season.

This is to anyone on here but in general i have noticed. There can’t seem to be any middle ground or objectivity with Maguire in the football world. He’s either wank or a flop or some go way overboard
I mentioned this a few pages back: you have 2 groups of fans when it comes to rating Maguire

1. Fans that think he's absolutely **** and one of the worst defenders in the league (So Scouse🙃)
2. Fans that think he's world class and a top 5 CB
 
Dec 13, 2017
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Hopefully he continues on this form now for the rest of his time here. Just needs to sort his headers out and he will get us 5+ gls a season lol
 
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U18s tournament this week, Utd take on Chelsea, Spurs and Wolves.
Quite a few of the squad isolating so expect all the top U16s to be involved
 
May 1, 2015
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That's why I specified before his injury. There's a good chance he doesn't come back the same defender.
It fell on deaf ears, but you pertinently noted with the Konate insurance policy as it’s not just van Dijk but Gomez too who’s coming back off a horrific injury.

To press both have had no ill-effects and are more or less full go twice a day in camp through the first two weeks with everyone else. But it’s a gradual process and there’s no guarantee how things will go when the proper stuff starts. So Konate, along with Matip being the most advanced of the three returning, somewhat mitigates the need and enables them to be brought back gradually.

If I was a betting man I’d wager Matip and Konate start the season at Norwich. Which isn’t ideal as, as good as Konate is, he’s still learning our system which isn’t easy at all and takes rime. (Witness Fabinho and AndyRobbo among others.). But at least with him, we don’t have to alter the whole style of our play to accommodate the young lads who don’t have rapid pace like we did last year. And the cumulative effect that has on the whole side from back to front.

Totally agree. The return ofJMG and big Virg is the main thing/ concern to watch for this year and how, if any, the recovery effects them to getting back to previous levels.
 
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Vanjagl

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True story-

Phil Babb was the most accurate passer in the league under Opta’s stats as was back then one season.

I’d be completely misrepresenting stats if I tried to claim he was a top player too.
I tend to agree. Statistic is like a bikini. Shows a lot, but hides most important parts. Just wanted to show there isnt that much of a difference when you compare them side by side. Van Dijk has one clear advantage that most great CBs have, he doesnt commit many fouls yet he wins the ball 70%? of the time.
He's belssed with amazing speed so he can recover, unlike Maguire who needs to foul.
 
Dec 13, 2017
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If what Bouhafsi is saying and we are close to agreeing a fee with Madrid for less than 40m Sterling that’s a great fee no matter he only has 1 yr in his contract.
 
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