The Manchester United Thread

[sunilvk7]

June 88 which mean he was 20 in the first half of 2009. Fail much?

Or he was 20 when the season ended, which is what we are talking about.

Hernandez failed to make impression in a league where quality is equivalent to Championship maybe?

He is 23, in his interview he mentioned 3 years back he was thinking about quitting, which is when he was 20 years old. Then everything started to fall in place for him.

We are talking about Macheda who is playing in a much better league and trying to break into one of the best teams in the world. I know which is difficult between the two, which was the main reason why Hernandez was brought into this discussion.

Scholes also had breakthrough at around 20, when squad was smaller in those days.

Conclusion: Dont write off a youngster, he has the potential and it was clear for everyone to see when he made his debut. His development was shunted in the last 18 months for various reasons, so give the lad break. He is just back from injury.

 

[Average Joe]

Anybody got a **** straightner I can borrow?

Fletcher has played about 300 odd games for United and was also in the Prem team of the year 09-10. He is a very solid player that does what is expected of him very well.

Macheda needs to have a good run out in matches when he is fully fit before anything can be expected, especially at 20. With all the young super players out there (Hazard, Neymar etc) I think some people are expecting to much too soon from some of the other young players.

 

[phila001]

told you we should of got wesley sneijder

 

[Athe~]

Or he was 20 when the season ended, which is what we are talking about.

Hernandez failed to make impression in a league where quality is equivalent to Championship maybe?

He is 23, in his interview he mentioned 3 years back he was thinking about quitting, which is when he was 20 years old. Then everything started to fall in place for him.

We are talking about Macheda who is playing in a much better league and trying to break into one of the best teams in the world. I know which is difficult between the two, which was the main reason why Hernandez was brought into this discussion.

Scholes also had breakthrough at around 20, when squad was smaller in those days.

Conclusion: Dont write off a youngster, he has the potential and it was clear for everyone to see when he made his debut. His development was shunted in the last 18 months for various reasons, so give the lad break. He is just back from injury.

He also played 10 games in the last months of 2008. That's 25 games out of 34. I honestly don't think you've got the facts at hand and I can't really see what Chicharito was trying to say because he was getting game time, a lot more than many of the youngsters around.

And you say he was playing in a league equivalent to the Championship while Macheda is playing in a better league. That's where you're wrong, Chicharito was playing, Macheda is not. If Macheda is to improve he should be getting games, one game every 6 months just won't do.

 

[Average Joe]

Just think back to a couple of player Man United let go of - Pique and Guiseppe Rossi. Both top players now.

Pique played somwhere around 20 times in 3 years at United before going back to Barca where from the start he was in the team for 30-40 appearances per season. No club in the world would turn down having him in their squad now - and he is 24, Barca could get another 10 years out of him. They only paid United 5ish mil.

Rossi I think made around 20 appearances and scored and assisted a few (yet did sod all at Newcastle on loan) Now he is a 15 or 20 to 30 goal a season striker at Villarreal, also only 24.

Ferguson is at one of the biggest clubs in the world. He has to balance the decisions of playing youth in the right games at the right time, when the player is judged ready. It's extremely hard and it's difficult to know who will make it and who wont.

I dont think we will ever see another Giggs / Scholes / Beckham / Neville youth crop again, unless the Premier League rules were to change alot.

 

[sunilvk7]

He also played 10 games in the last months of 2008. That's 25 games out of 34. I honestly don't think you've got the facts at hand and I can't really see what Chicharito was trying to say because he was getting game time, a lot more than many of the youngsters around.

And you say he was playing in a league equivalent to the Championship while Macheda is playing in a better league. That's where you're wrong, Chicharito was playing, Macheda is not. If Macheda is to improve he should be getting games, one game every 6 months just won't do.

And Macheda had played around 30 games for ManUtd till date. I was comparing what Hernandez was doing when he was at Macheda's age. Yes he himself said he was frustrated as he was in reserves and thought about quitting. Which somehow you changed it to what Hernandez achieved after he turned 20. When 2007-08 season ended, Hernandez was 20. By then he played only 20 games for Chivas.

Even if we consider your stats about 25 games, still Macheda played more games in a much better league than Hernandez.

How does it matter if Macheda is playing or on bench. Your point was "Macheda is not good enough to be at United", not what is stopping Macheda to fulfill his potential. Diverting from the main point.. Aren't we?

 

[Athe~]

Just think back to a couple of player Man United let go of - Pique and Guiseppe Rossi. Both top players now.

Pique played somwhere around 20 times in 3 years at United before going back to Barca where from the start he was in the team for 30-40 appearances per season. No club in the world would turn down having him in their squad now - and he is 24, Barca could get another 10 years out of him. They only paid United 5ish mil.

Rossi I think made around 20 appearances and scored and assisted a few (yet did sod all at Newcastle on loan) Now he is a 15 or 20 to 30 goal a season striker at Villarreal, also only 24.

Ferguson is at one of the biggest clubs in the world. He has to balance the decisions of playing youth in the right games at the right time, when the player is judged ready. It's extremely hard and it's difficult to know who will make it and who wont.

I dont think we will ever see another Giggs / Scholes / Beckham / Neville youth crop again, unless the Premier League rules were to change alot.

On the first bit, 2 made it but many more did not. You (and pretty much everyone) remembers those two because they managed to succeed, but how many more just faded into obscurity? Furthermore, I think the only similarity between Rossi and Macheda is the fact they play for Italy.

On Ferguson, of course it's hard. He's spotted some top talents but you should also remember he's also bought a few duds. A few months ago there were United fans (Sunil, you were one of them) claiming Bebe was going to make it when it was pretty clear to everyone including Fergie that he was a flop. I'm not blaming Ferguson for anything, he's got to make some tough calls and I certainly wouldn't want to be in his shoes when he's making them, I'm merely stating my opinion here.

 

[Puddz]

Why is someone writing of Macheda? Must be an idiot.
Macheda is a striker trying to break through into a team with Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck and Berbatov. Most experienced strikers would have a hard time getting a game with them 4 already here. Plus Macheda is coming back from a horrible 18 months.
I think you can cut him some slack for not making the first team..

 

[Athe~]

And Macheda had played around 30 games for ManUtd till date. I was comparing what Hernandez was doing when he was at Macheda's age. Yes he himself said he was frustrated as he was in reserves and thought about quitting. Which somehow you changed it to what Hernandez achieved after he turned 20. When 2007-08 season ended, Hernandez was 20. By then he played only 20 games for Chivas.

Even if we consider your stats about 25 games, still Macheda played more games in a much better league than Hernandez.

How does it matter if Macheda is playing or on bench. Your point was "Macheda is not good enough to be at United", not what is stopping Macheda to fulfill his potential. Diverting from the main point.. Aren't we?

Hernandez turned 20 when the 2007-08 season was over, so no, he wasn't 20 when the season was over (Actually, the season ended on the day he turned 20, but his team was already out of the competition by then).

And Macheda only played 17 league games for United, the rest were played in the cups, against weaker opposition.

And my exact words were, and I quote, 'I don't think Macheda will make it, not at a club like United. Maybe he needs to be loaned out to see if he can step up his game, but as things stand I don't see him breaking into the first team.'.

 

[sunilvk7]

On Ferguson, of course it's hard. He's spotted some top talents but you should also remember he's also bought a few duds. A few months ago there were United fans (Sunil, you were one of them) claiming Bebe was going to make it when it was pretty clear to everyone including Fergie that he was a flop.

I'm sorry, I dont remember saying that Bebe will surely make it. (I might have made some posts supporting Bebe in which I might have said he can make it) I remember Me and Mike saying dont write him off so early. At least give him a chance to prove what he has got. I'm not sure if I ever said Bebe will make it here surely..

 

[sunilvk7]

Hernandez turned 20 when the 2007-08 season was over, so no, he wasn't 20 when the season was over (Actually, the season ended on the day he turned 20, but his team was already out of the competition by then).

And Macheda only played 17 league games for United, the rest were played in the cups, against weaker opposition.

And against whom Hernandez was playing? What was the level of opposition?

And my exact words were, and I quote, 'I don't think Macheda will make it, not at a club like United. Maybe he needs to be loaned out to see if he can step up his game, but as things stand I don't see him breaking into the first team.'.

Words in Italics, you said You dont think Macheda will make it at United. Thats what we are arguing for. Dont write him off so early.

 

[Athe~]

And against whom Hernandez was playing? What was the level of opposition?

Words in Italics, you said You dont think Macheda will make it at United. Thats what we are arguing for. Dont write him off so early.

I don't see any words in italics thus your post doesn't make sense .

That said, that's exactly what you're doing with my post. You read the first few words and ignored the rest of the post.

 

[Average Joe]

On the first bit, 2 made it but many more did not. You (and pretty much everyone) remembers those two because they managed to succeed, but how many more just faded into obscurity? Furthermore, I think the only similarity between Rossi and Macheda is the fact they play for Italy.

On Ferguson, of course it's hard. He's spotted some top talents but you should also remember he's also bought a few duds. A few months ago there were United fans (Sunil, you were one of them) claiming Bebe was going to make it when it was pretty clear to everyone including Fergie that he was a flop. I'm not blaming Ferguson for anything, he's got to make some tough calls and I certainly wouldn't want to be in his shoes when he's making them, I'm merely stating my opinion here.

Although I didn't compare them....

Both strikers

Rossi - signed at a very young age for Manchester United and had trouble getting chances -like Macheda
Rossi - Went on loan to Newcastle and scored sod all when played - like Macheda at Sampdoria
Both played at U16 - 17 - 19 -21 levels for Italy

So there are some similar things with their careers so far. Although it was not my original point lol

 

[Athe~]

Although I didn't compare them....

Both strikers

Rossi - signed at a very young age for Manchester United and had trouble getting chances -like Macheda
Rossi - Went on loan to Newcastle and scored sod all when played - like Macheda at Sampdoria
Both played at U16 - 17 - 19 -21 levels for Italy

So there are some similar things with their careers so far. Although it was not my original point lol

Yeah, but Rossi did better than Macheda for Italy. And if I'm not mistaken Rossi was 20 when he went on loan to Parma and did well?

 

[Average Joe]

Yeah, but Rossi did better than Macheda for Italy. And if I'm not mistaken Rossi was 20 when he went on loan to Parma and did well?

Not enough to get a chance at United lol

All this about being 20 is bollocks anyway

Ian Wright signed a pro contract a few weeks (or months, cant remember) short of his 22nd birthday. End of his career he had 300 odd goals in about 600 matches and is a Premiership legend

 

[sunilvk7]

I don't see any words in italics thus your post doesn't make sense .

That said, that's exactly what you're doing with my post. You read the first few words and ignored the rest of the post.

Actually whole quoted part was in italics

No. I didn't ignore your other points. Even you followed it up few posts saying he couldn't even break into Sampdoria team that was relegated and all.

Anyways my point is Never write off youngsters, that too players like Macheda who has showed lot of promise earlier and then had to suffer few injuries and made a bad loan move. He is just 20 and plenty of time to improve.

Yes he should go on loan in Jan, earlier SAF he wants to keep tab on Macheda's attitude, so loan might not be possible this season. But given choice I would like to see him in Championship team or lower PL clubs.

 

[Average Joe]

Yes he should go on loan in Jan, earlier SAF he wants to keep tab on Macheda's attitude, so loan might not be possible this season. But given choice I would like to see him in Championship team or lower PL clubs.

I'd quite like to see him at a team like Bolton

 

[sunilvk7]

I'd quite like to see him at a team like Bolton

Yeah but considering Bolton are in relegation place, I dont think Coyle could afford to take a risk.. I wouldn't mind Bolton but I dont see that happening.

My bet would be Championship club.

 

[Mike.]

Not enough to get a chance at United lol

All this about being 20 is bollocks anyway

Ian Wright signed a pro contract a few weeks (or months, cant remember) short of his 22nd birthday. End of his career he had 300 odd goals in about 600 matches and is a Premiership legend

This is the thing, he is 20 FFS. To write him off now is idiotic at best.

SAF is determined not repeat to Rossi

 

[sunilvk7]

This is the thing, he is 20 FFS. To write him off now is idiotic at best.

SAF is determined not repeat to Rossi

Blame Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney, Neymar, Gotze for showing such a promise at very young age. Sometimes people forget that 20 is young for a footballer.