The Manchester United Thread

[mersk]

Curious to see what happens to Mata when Mourinho arrives.

 

[steveorobbo]

Mou is good but c'mon... hahaha

and that would be Matic.

Matic had one good season last season. Schneiderlin was pretty much on par with him in every department while playing for Southampton. Also the season before Schneiderlin was by far the best DM in the league.

Two consistent seasons over Matic's one wins it for me. Where has Matic been this season? Schneiderlin apart from the odd game has been pretty solid.

 

[wkdsoul]

Matic had one good season last season. Schneiderlin was pretty much on par with him in every department while playing for Southampton. Also the season before Schneiderlin was by far the best DM in the league.

Two consistent seasons over Matic's one wins it for me. Where has Matic been this season? Schneiderlin apart from the odd game has been pretty solid.

He was as good as Schneiderlin in the first season back in the Prem. PFA team of the year etc etc, Chelsea had the best defence by 10 goals that season, I'll take Matic in 14, Morgan in 15, and as Chelsea fecking suck this year, Morgan by default

1 - 1.5 Morgan win.... FINISH HIM........

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Again with the de gea thing. You see, once mourinho arrives, he will sort out the defence. With a strong defence, we could have mignolet in goal and still keep clean sheets.

As for the average players part, I don't think he spent all of it on average players. I think martial will most likely come up strong...as will memphis. Juan Mata isn't average. Luke shaw is the future of england. Schniderlin was the best DM in the epl before he came to united.

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Mingolet would only get you so far as he'd be liable to make at least one screw most every game. And no defence completely shuts down teams consistently to make the 'keeper redundant. So let's not go getting silly there.

Funny the four players you mentioned: We had this conversation yesterday pre-game and two of those four were the only players anyone would take into our squad. And our squad needs a heck of a lot of work to it. De Gea goes without question. As does Shaw. Really like the potential he has. But then he's coming off a horrific injury so it remains to be seen if he's still the same after it. And Martial has great potential. Mata's not average by any means. But he's not a consistent difference maker for the position either. And Schneiderlin's just a solid, rangy DM. Rather develop Can's potential into that role. Smalling was the other one we said we'd take. But that was more by default down to our centre half situation. A good judge of a players worth to me is if you were to put him on the open market, what would the interest be? With Smalling, I doubt you'd get too many serious players interested He's improved a lot. But he's still inconsistent and not half as dominant as is made out a lot of the time.

But that's the overall point IMO. Outside of a handful of good/ very good players, and a WC goalkeeper, the rest is pretty much 'meh' when it comes to a consistent, top level challenge.

But you're not alone. There's quite a few big clubs with a lot of mediocre personnel that consistently costs them. My own included.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

The L'pool- Utd games just keep on coming.

Team sheet for tonights U'21 contest.

View attachment 169817

 

[sunilvk7]

I've been talking about system for the best part of 2 years. When you get this right, it takes the pressure off individual players.

I remember us having this discussion few years back. Defense is just not the back 4 but it's the whole system. Defend as a team and attack as a team.

Simeone's team is the best example. Without signing anyone he made average defense look like top defense.

 

[steveorobbo]

He was as good as Schneiderlin in the first season back in the Prem. PFA team of the year etc etc, Chelsea had the best defence by 10 goals that season, I'll take Matic in 14, Morgan in 15, and as Chelsea fecking suck this year, Morgan by default

1 - 1.5 Morgan win.... FINISH HIM........

Fair points, but I think your missing one key factor. One of those players played in a side that absolutely hammered the league (for the first half anyway. Then went a bit defensive which would play into his style), the other was in a recently promoted side and has gone through the divisions, while every year upping his game.

PFA team of the year doesnt really count for anything IMO. The big sides are always more likely to contain players than the lower sides. If Matic and Schneiderlin are similar, Matic will 9/10 get the nod (even though IMO it should be the player thats playing just as good in a 'smaller' team).

Again, Chelsea having the best defence by 10 goals. ITS CHELSEA lol. Champions. Arguably have the best GK, Right/Left and Centre backs in the league (Cech/Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Azpilicueta).

Also for this season you could argue that if Matic was anywhere near as effective as what he was last season, Chelsea could and probably would have a few more points than they have now.

Taking into acount the teams they play/ed for, and how each player has carried on their form over a few seasons, I'd give it to Schneiderlin. At one point you could maybe argue Schneiderlin appeared better because of Wanyama, but hes gone onto United and pretty much finished where he left Southampton. Even if the team itself has been pretty inconsistent.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Do any of you remember that team Fergie took the the UCL finals back in 2011?

If LVG had that team, i don't think we'll finish top half.

 

[sunilvk7]

I would replace Carrick, probably with Blind. Which means a ball playing CB (hardest target imo). Need a wide player and maybe a dominant mid. I'd also get Zlatan just for the lols. Striker is the hardest for me, I'd like to see Rooney under Jose, but also he is actually finished? Would rather add goals either side of him first tbh

Blind will never be Carrick's replacement. For all the passing ability Blind is showing, our midfield was easily bypassed when he played as DM. He started well but regressed a lot as the season progressed. Looked better as CB but would like to see him as LB where he will get enough time to pick his pass and his lack of physical presence won't be a big issue.

Or for better he should be a squad player.

Loved Fosu Mensah's performance. He is very good passer of the ball. Him and Smalling as CB would be beasty pair.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

If Mourinho come Mata goes. He's not a Mourinho type of player.

Had Mourinho gone by the time Chelsea signed Mata? Honestly can't remember.

 

[epic terrorist]

I remember us having this discussion few years back. Defense is just not the back 4 but it's the whole system. Defend as a team and attack as a team.

Simeone's team is the best example. Without signing anyone he made average defense look like top defense.

Yeah this is something that people forget, you only have to look at Leicester and how they defend as a team.

 

[epic terrorist]

Had Mourinho gone by the time Chelsea signed Mata? Honestly can't remember.

Yeah he was an AVB signing iirc could be wrong sure the chelsea contingent will put us straight

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Yeah he was an AVB signing iirc could be wrong sure the chelsea contingent will put us straight

Ta la.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yeah this is something that people forget, you only have to look at Leicester and how they defend as a team.

Simple concept but hard for many fans to understand. All they do is think of which players gets into which squad when the team is all about how each player compliments the other players.

 

[wkdsoul]

Fair points, but I think your missing one key factor. One of those players played in a side that absolutely hammered the league (for the first half anyway. Then went a bit defensive which would play into his style), the other was in a recently promoted side and has gone through the divisions, while every year upping his game.

PFA team of the year doesnt really count for anything IMO. The big sides are always more likely to contain players than the lower sides. If Matic and Schneiderlin are similar, Matic will 9/10 get the nod (even though IMO it should be the player thats playing just as good in a 'smaller' team).

Again, Chelsea having the best defence by 10 goals. ITS CHELSEA lol. Champions. Arguably have the best GK, Right/Left and Centre backs in the league (Cech/Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Azpilicueta).

Also for this season you could argue that if Matic was anywhere near as effective as what he was last season, Chelsea could and probably would have a few more points than they have now.

Taking into acount the teams they play/ed for, and how each player has carried on their form over a few seasons, I'd give it to Schneiderlin. At one point you could maybe argue Schneiderlin appeared better because of Wanyama, but hes gone onto United and pretty much finished where he left Southampton. Even if the team itself has been pretty inconsistent.

Well i was talking about Matic first season back, not last season. Chelsea finished 3rd with the best defense, he then had the championship winning season on top of that. I like Schneiderlien but if i was playing a 2 man DMC partnership, for a single i'd take Matic.

 

[sunilvk7]

If LVG goes in the summer, and DDG goes to Real Madrid, expect a turn around from Valdes. Not a long term option but a keeper thats been there and done it and would allow us to concentrate on filling other areas of the team. Possibly with a view to waiting a couple of years until one of the younger lads is ready.

Signing Valdes wouldn't solve problems. That lad who plays for Koln (Timo Horn?) looks like the next big thing from Germany and literally too. 6.4 feet tall and very good reflexes.

 

[epic terrorist]

Simple concept but hard for many fans to understand. All they do is think of which players gets into which squad when the team is all about how each player compliments the other players (could be 1.3 and 2.1 cannot recall but you get the gist).

Yeah it is, even teams viewed as very much attacking outlets like Peps Barcelona still defended as a team with their pressing system (was it 9 seconds hunting the ball then back to positions something like that). As much as I love attacking play defence is king. Statistically speaking a clean sheet is typically worth 2.3 points per game compared to scoring a goal at around 1.2, although this season being the way it has been these numbers could well differ for 2015/16.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yeah it is, even teams viewed as very much attacking outlets like Peps Barcelona still defended as a team with their pressing system (was it 9 seconds hunting the ball then back to positions something like that). As much as I love attacking play defence is king. Statistically speaking a clean sheet is typically worth 2.3 points per game compared to scoring a goal at around 1.2, although this season being the way it has been these numbers could well differ for 2015/16.

Yeah Leicester for example has a team where their CB was their main CB in championship (Wes Morgan), Huth who was not needed at Stoke any more, De Laet ManUtd reject, Simpson ManUtd reject, Schullp ManUtd reject, Drinkwater as their midfielder who was again ManUtd reject.

What matters more is how manager organize his team. Also Southampton is another good example.

 

[steveorobbo]

Signing Valdes wouldn't solve problems. That lad who plays for Koln (Timo Horn?) looks like the next big thing from Germany and literally too. 6.4 feet tall and very good reflexes.

It wouldnt solve problems but its an experienced goalkeeper of the highest level so we can concentrate on other areas of the pitch. All we need to do is give him a new contract. We're not buying him.

Timo Horn COULD be the next best thing. But he would also be a young GK moving to a new country and league. If he fails to adapt, he goes from next best thing to Massimo Taibi. That same gamble paid off eventually with DDG, but if we need an overhaul of the squad next season and a new manager, the last thing we need is another young GK being thrown in and having to adapt.

 

[sunilvk7]

It wouldnt solve problems but its an experienced goalkeeper of the highest level so we can concentrate on other areas of the pitch. All we need to do is give him a new contract. We're not buying him.

Timo Horn COULD be the next best thing. But he would also be a young GK moving to a new country and league. If he fails to adapt, he goes from next best thing to Massimo Taibi. That same gamble paid off eventually with DDG, but if we need an overhaul of the squad next season and a new manager, the last thing we need is another young GK being thrown in and having to adapt.

Signing Valdes is as much bigger risk IMO. He is 34 years old and played in La Liga where he wasn't challenged physically. He is not taller for GK too. IMO he would be a big problem in the league.

I agree Timo Horn is a risk but risk worth taking as he is young and has a physique to dominate the box. I know it's a pipe dream but Johnstone deserves a shot IMO. Very talented GK.