The Manchester United Thread

[epic terrorist]

I remember us having this discussion few years back. Defense is just not the back 4 but it's the whole system. Defend as a team and attack as a team.

Simeone's team is the best example. Without signing anyone he made average defense look like top defense.

Yeah this is something that people forget, you only have to look at Leicester and how they defend as a team.

 

[epic terrorist]

Had Mourinho gone by the time Chelsea signed Mata? Honestly can't remember.

Yeah he was an AVB signing iirc could be wrong sure the chelsea contingent will put us straight

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Yeah he was an AVB signing iirc could be wrong sure the chelsea contingent will put us straight

Ta la.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yeah this is something that people forget, you only have to look at Leicester and how they defend as a team.

Simple concept but hard for many fans to understand. All they do is think of which players gets into which squad when the team is all about how each player compliments the other players.

 

[wkdsoul]

Fair points, but I think your missing one key factor. One of those players played in a side that absolutely hammered the league (for the first half anyway. Then went a bit defensive which would play into his style), the other was in a recently promoted side and has gone through the divisions, while every year upping his game.

PFA team of the year doesnt really count for anything IMO. The big sides are always more likely to contain players than the lower sides. If Matic and Schneiderlin are similar, Matic will 9/10 get the nod (even though IMO it should be the player thats playing just as good in a 'smaller' team).

Again, Chelsea having the best defence by 10 goals. ITS CHELSEA lol. Champions. Arguably have the best GK, Right/Left and Centre backs in the league (Cech/Courtois, Ivanovic, Terry, Azpilicueta).

Also for this season you could argue that if Matic was anywhere near as effective as what he was last season, Chelsea could and probably would have a few more points than they have now.

Taking into acount the teams they play/ed for, and how each player has carried on their form over a few seasons, I'd give it to Schneiderlin. At one point you could maybe argue Schneiderlin appeared better because of Wanyama, but hes gone onto United and pretty much finished where he left Southampton. Even if the team itself has been pretty inconsistent.

Well i was talking about Matic first season back, not last season. Chelsea finished 3rd with the best defense, he then had the championship winning season on top of that. I like Schneiderlien but if i was playing a 2 man DMC partnership, for a single i'd take Matic.

 

[sunilvk7]

If LVG goes in the summer, and DDG goes to Real Madrid, expect a turn around from Valdes. Not a long term option but a keeper thats been there and done it and would allow us to concentrate on filling other areas of the team. Possibly with a view to waiting a couple of years until one of the younger lads is ready.

Signing Valdes wouldn't solve problems. That lad who plays for Koln (Timo Horn?) looks like the next big thing from Germany and literally too. 6.4 feet tall and very good reflexes.

 

[epic terrorist]

Simple concept but hard for many fans to understand. All they do is think of which players gets into which squad when the team is all about how each player compliments the other players (could be 1.3 and 2.1 cannot recall but you get the gist).

Yeah it is, even teams viewed as very much attacking outlets like Peps Barcelona still defended as a team with their pressing system (was it 9 seconds hunting the ball then back to positions something like that). As much as I love attacking play defence is king. Statistically speaking a clean sheet is typically worth 2.3 points per game compared to scoring a goal at around 1.2, although this season being the way it has been these numbers could well differ for 2015/16.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yeah it is, even teams viewed as very much attacking outlets like Peps Barcelona still defended as a team with their pressing system (was it 9 seconds hunting the ball then back to positions something like that). As much as I love attacking play defence is king. Statistically speaking a clean sheet is typically worth 2.3 points per game compared to scoring a goal at around 1.2, although this season being the way it has been these numbers could well differ for 2015/16.

Yeah Leicester for example has a team where their CB was their main CB in championship (Wes Morgan), Huth who was not needed at Stoke any more, De Laet ManUtd reject, Simpson ManUtd reject, Schullp ManUtd reject, Drinkwater as their midfielder who was again ManUtd reject.

What matters more is how manager organize his team. Also Southampton is another good example.

 

[steveorobbo]

Signing Valdes wouldn't solve problems. That lad who plays for Koln (Timo Horn?) looks like the next big thing from Germany and literally too. 6.4 feet tall and very good reflexes.

It wouldnt solve problems but its an experienced goalkeeper of the highest level so we can concentrate on other areas of the pitch. All we need to do is give him a new contract. We're not buying him.

Timo Horn COULD be the next best thing. But he would also be a young GK moving to a new country and league. If he fails to adapt, he goes from next best thing to Massimo Taibi. That same gamble paid off eventually with DDG, but if we need an overhaul of the squad next season and a new manager, the last thing we need is another young GK being thrown in and having to adapt.

 

[sunilvk7]

It wouldnt solve problems but its an experienced goalkeeper of the highest level so we can concentrate on other areas of the pitch. All we need to do is give him a new contract. We're not buying him.

Timo Horn COULD be the next best thing. But he would also be a young GK moving to a new country and league. If he fails to adapt, he goes from next best thing to Massimo Taibi. That same gamble paid off eventually with DDG, but if we need an overhaul of the squad next season and a new manager, the last thing we need is another young GK being thrown in and having to adapt.

Signing Valdes is as much bigger risk IMO. He is 34 years old and played in La Liga where he wasn't challenged physically. He is not taller for GK too. IMO he would be a big problem in the league.

I agree Timo Horn is a risk but risk worth taking as he is young and has a physique to dominate the box. I know it's a pipe dream but Johnstone deserves a shot IMO. Very talented GK.

 

[epic terrorist]

Yeah Leicester for example has a team where their CB was their main CB in championship (Wes Morgan), Huth who was not needed at Stoke any more, De Laet ManUtd reject, Simpson ManUtd reject, Schullp ManUtd reject, Drinkwater as their midfielder who was again ManUtd reject.

What matters more is how manager organize his team. Also Southampton is another good example.

Yeah Southampton are I mean I think a coupke of their core players where with them in League one, Fonte springs to mind, the japanese fella forget his name you could also add Lallana, Lambert and Schneiderlin before he left to those too. I also think their system and how they get the maximum out of players helps with bringing through the youngsters at the rate they do.

 

[Mike.]

Do any of you remember that team Fergie took the the UCL finals back in 2011?

If LVG had that team, i don't think we'll finish top half.

Precisely my point. People argue counter, and then laud Klopp, can't have it both ways, when he is all about the system. Though in fairness his Dortmund team personally was very strong in its last two years.

 

[steveorobbo]

Signing Valdes is as much bigger risk IMO. He is 34 years old and played in La Liga where he wasn't challenged physically. He is not taller for GK too. IMO he would be a big problem in the league.

I agree Timo Horn is a risk but risk worth taking as he is young and has a physique to dominate the box. I know it's a pipe dream but Johnstone deserves a shot IMO. Very talented GK.

My thoughts exactly. I would rather give Johnstone a go than take a gamble on another young goalie.

My thinking behind Valdes is:

a) Saves on transfer fee to invest in other areas
b) Experienced head to come in behind a back 4 that will almost certainly need a bit of guidance and authority.

When we signed De Gea, we had a good solid back 4 with plenty of experience and a lot of key figures throughout the team. A young new GK coming in now, behind our defence currently, and will almost certainly be added to in the summer, could be a **** storm waiting to happen.

I'd rather stick with the experience of Valdes for the time being, until the team is sorted and settled again and under some kind of rhythm with the new manager, than throw in a kid and add another potential problem.

 

[sunilvk7]

My thoughts exactly. I would rather give Johnstone a go than take a gamble on another young goalie.

My thinking behind Valdes is:

a) Saves on transfer fee to invest in other areas
b) Experienced head to come in behind a back 4 that will almost certainly need a bit of guidance and authority.

When we signed De Gea, we had a good solid back 4 with plenty of experience and a lot of key figures throughout the team. A young new GK coming in now, behind our defence currently, and will almost certainly be added to in the summer, could be a **** storm waiting to happen.

I'd rather stick with the experience of Valdes for the time being, until the team is sorted and settled again and under some kind of rhythm with the new manager, than throw in a kid and add another potential problem.

I sort of agree with your reasoning that we need experience in the backline but the reason I don't want Valdes is I don't rate him highly. He is very poor at crosses and doesn't command his area at all.

Smalling is 26 years old, it's time for his to step up and lead the line. Also someone with good English is very much needed as most of our defenders speak English.

Thinking about other options, Jack Butland would be very good signing.

 

[steveorobbo]

I sort of agree with your reasoning that we need experience in the backline but the reason I don't want Valdes is I don't rate him highly. He is very poor at crosses and doesn't command his area at all.

Smalling is 26 years old, it's time for his to step up and lead the line. Also someone with good English is very much needed as most of our defenders speak English.

Thinking about other options, Jack Butland would be very good signing.

I agree, Butland would be a great signing. Just two small problems. He's young and he's English. Given he's probably the next best keeper to Hart (maybe Forster, and I mean English GK's), we're probably looking at around £30m to sign him. That would make me more inclined to go with Johnstone for a while and see how he goes.

 

[woolly]

Had Mourinho gone by the time Chelsea signed Mata? Honestly can't remember.

He had gone then sold him when he returned.

 

[sunilvk7]

I agree, Butland would be a great signing. Just two small problems. He's young and he's English. Given he's probably the next best keeper to Hart (maybe Forster, and I mean English GK's), we're probably looking at around £30m to sign him. That would make me more inclined to go with Johnstone for a while and see how he goes.

30m is pushing very high imo. That means breaking all kind of records for a GK. He is young an loved his season for stoke. In few games he looked absolutely unbeatable.

Yeah Johnstone did very well in the preseason, I wanted him to start the season ahead of Romero.

 

[woolly]

Signing Valdes wouldn't solve problems. That lad who plays for Koln (Timo Horn?) looks like the next big thing from Germany and literally too. 6.4 feet tall and very good reflexes.

Valdes is already at United. Mind you Horn could just turn out to be another Schmichel if Utd were to buy him. Which can't hurt.

 

[sunilvk7]

Valdes is already at United. Mind you Horn could just turn out to be another Schmichel if Utd were to buy him. Which can't hurt.

Valdes will be out of contract in the summer. He won't be at United. He signed 18 month deal with option to extend. I don't think any parties will be keen to extend.

 

[woolly]

However, if LVG was gone and a manager who was more accommodating he could sign a new contract, that said I don't think he will stay.