The Manchester United Thread
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Theatre of dreams
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Would be happy with those nearly same as my list apart from CB position. Though tbh think there is good options in most this summer.
Theatre of dreams
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Just watched highlights of Feyernoords youth game were they beat Ajax 4-1 our new signing Chong was top class and assisted 3 and played a huge part in the first, looks a real talent and will be watching him closely.
Legend Incredible
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This made me LOL.
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Fosu-Mensah is a beast in the making. Van Gall will certainly leave a legacy even if he does get fired, it takes balls of steel to risk your job on so many young players.
Mourinho would rather play reserve goalkeeper out of position than to have a side full of people who barely started to shave.
Mourinho would rather play reserve goalkeeper out of position than to have a side full of people who barely started to shave.
[h=1]Jose Mourinho trying to crush the belief he cannot develop young talent as he eyes Old Trafford role[/h]
13 APRIL 2016 • 9:25PM
[*=left]SAM WALLACECHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER
[*=center]
[*=center]
When Jose Mourinho embarked on his first pre-season tour after returning as Chelsea manager in the summer of 2013, with a fresh surge of optimism at the club and brave plans for the future, there was one issue that nagged away at his patience every time it was raised.
It was the notion that when it came to young players, Mourinho was simply not interested in giving them their chance – a policy that conflicted with the stated intent of a club who had poured more resources than any other into their academy over the previous eight years. What was the point of having the likes of Kevin De Bruyne, Romelu Lukaku, Ryan Bertrand, Bertrand Traoré, Nathaniel Chalobah and Marco van Ginkel – all on that particular tour – if he was never going to use them?
It was the notion that when it came to young players, Mourinho was simply not interested in giving them their chance – a policy that conflicted with the stated intent of a club who had poured more resources than any other into their academy over the previous eight years. What was the point of having the likes of Kevin De Bruyne, Romelu Lukaku, Ryan Bertrand, Bertrand Traoré, Nathaniel Chalobah and Marco van Ginkel – all on that particular tour – if he was never going to use them?
He was asked about it before the team played in Jakarta, and his answer set the template for his response every time the same question was asked over the next 2½ seasons – Mourinho disagreed with the basic premise. “Any time I have had young players with the ability to become top players and play for the first team,” he said then, “any time I had that, I picked them. I did it everywhere I worked.”
Come this summer and Mourinho will hope that he is on tour somewhere else, refining a new club. It should be said that for the first time in 27 years in football his path is not clear, and while Manchester United look the most obvious destination they are yet to make a move that would give any clear indication they see Mourinho as Louis van Gaal’s successor.
There is an issue at play for Mourinho, and the understanding is that it has gone beyond an irritation to become something that he believes is damaging the reputation that he has nurtured since he took his first steps in football as a youth team coach at Vitoria de Setubal in 1989. That is the criticism he does not select, develop and integrate young players into his teams, and that it may yet cost him the United job.
Come this summer and Mourinho will hope that he is on tour somewhere else, refining a new club. It should be said that for the first time in 27 years in football his path is not clear, and while Manchester United look the most obvious destination they are yet to make a move that would give any clear indication they see Mourinho as Louis van Gaal’s successor.
There is an issue at play for Mourinho, and the understanding is that it has gone beyond an irritation to become something that he believes is damaging the reputation that he has nurtured since he took his first steps in football as a youth team coach at Vitoria de Setubal in 1989. That is the criticism he does not select, develop and integrate young players into his teams, and that it may yet cost him the United job.
Certainly, the issue has been considered serious enough that Mourinho’s old confidante from his Benfica days, Eladio Parames, a former press officer and journalist, wrote a defence of his friend’s record in the Daily Star last month. Parames, hardly trying to disguise his ultimate target, wrote: “Does anybody believe that [Marcus] Rashford would play if Wayne Rooney, Anthony Martial and Marouane Fellaini weren’t also in the Carrington Hospital [sic]?”
Even Mourinho’s staunchest allies would not try to make the case that he developed any young talent during his second spell at the Chelsea, although it would be fair to say that the career of Ruben Loftus-Cheek, for instance, did not exactly sprout wings as soon as Guus Hiddink took over.
As for Mourinho, he has a very different view of what constitutes successful youth development at a club such as Chelsea or Real Madrid.
Even Mourinho’s staunchest allies would not try to make the case that he developed any young talent during his second spell at the Chelsea, although it would be fair to say that the career of Ruben Loftus-Cheek, for instance, did not exactly sprout wings as soon as Guus Hiddink took over.
As for Mourinho, he has a very different view of what constitutes successful youth development at a club such as Chelsea or Real Madrid.
He would argue that Kurt Zouma, a £12 million signing from St Etienne, was his development success. The same for Raphaël Varane, signed by Real Madrid for £8 million, aged 18, from Lens, whom he championed, or his decision at Chelsea in 2004 to promote a 22-year-old Petr Cech, signed from that summer for £7 million from Rennes, ahead of Carlo Cudicini.
Counting against Mourinho were the decisions in his second spell at Chelsea to sanction the departures of De Bruyne and Lukaku in particular, as well as Bertrand, and three years on from that summer tour all three would be considerable additions to the current Chelsea squad.
At Real Madrid, he gave debuts to around 18 academy-produced players although it should be said that many of them would be able to walk down the Paseo de la Castellana untroubled by the locals. Such as the midfielder Álex Fernández, currently on loan at Reading, who made one substitute appearance in the league in 2011, or the goalkeeper Fernando Pacheco, currently at Alavés, who made one Copa del Rey appearance for Madrid.
Counting against Mourinho were the decisions in his second spell at Chelsea to sanction the departures of De Bruyne and Lukaku in particular, as well as Bertrand, and three years on from that summer tour all three would be considerable additions to the current Chelsea squad.
At Real Madrid, he gave debuts to around 18 academy-produced players although it should be said that many of them would be able to walk down the Paseo de la Castellana untroubled by the locals. Such as the midfielder Álex Fernández, currently on loan at Reading, who made one substitute appearance in the league in 2011, or the goalkeeper Fernando Pacheco, currently at Alavés, who made one Copa del Rey appearance for Madrid.
On the flip side, Mourinho can say that he gave first starts to Casemiro and Jesé Rodriguez both of whom played against Wolfsburg in the Champions League on Tuesday. So too the defender Nacho, now a Spain international who was given his debut in Mourinho’s first season at the club. Álvaro Morata, now at Juventus and one of Europe’s leading strikers, was another Mourinho debutant.
There was no tokenism about his championing of Morata who, in March 2013, aged just 20, was selected to play against Barcelona. Others Mourinho picked, like Jose Rodriguez, 17 when he faced Ajax in 2012, and the youngest player the club have fielded in the Champions League, disappeared quickly. Mourinho will say he did what he could at a club who hardly prioritise the patient development of teenage talent and that 18 debuts is more than most Madrid coaches manage.
The further back you go in Mourinho’s career, the better his record at developing talent. At Inter Milan he played Davide Santon at 17 and there were other less successful attempts in his two seasons there to try young players. At Porto, it was different again where he selected the injury-prone teenager Bruno Moraes and then his fellow Brazilian Carlos Alberto, the latter of whom was just 19 when he scored in the 2004 Champions League final.
It is not a record that gets close to, say, that of Sir Alex Ferguson, or the great Barcelona home-grown generations, but the problem Mourinho has now is the perception he is dogmatically opposed to selecting young players. It follows him around relentlessly and a man who has cultivated his image in football as assiduously as Mourinho, he knows only too well the danger of being marked out as a manager with a blind spot for the promise of a young player.
It is not a record that gets close to, say, that of Sir Alex Ferguson, or the great Barcelona home-grown generations, but the problem Mourinho has now is the perception he is dogmatically opposed to selecting young players. It follows him around relentlessly and a man who has cultivated his image in football as assiduously as Mourinho, he knows only too well the danger of being marked out as a manager with a blind spot for the promise of a young player.
Legend Incredible
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That finesse shot from rashford yesterday tho. Never thought the kid had it in him.
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Average Joe
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Theatre of dreams
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It would but it wont happen.
wkdsoul
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Would Jose get the same amount of stick LVG got if he did the same thing. Sell the entire U21/Reserve team on arrival and call up the next lot/generation. I can see why he did it, but there are a lot of players lost in between Moyes non chance and LVG's clearout that kinda lost being given a fair crack.
Byrne, Lawrence, Petrucci, Keane, Amos?
To be fair to Jose, he record gets better the further you go as they we're more accepting of this being a 'long term' appointment and not immediate at all costs success. If United accept he is the guy long term, he will be given the leeway between bleding youngsters and making the improvement back to the top slower, depends on how they view it.
If hes the short term back to the top, no one will give a **** about the kids if he delivers and delivers BIG.
There were a few murmurings at first, which got quite loud.
But when you see how many are actually on the verge/coming through, it's hard to fault much on that front.
Where Jose has as an advantage, is that a fair few are "prem ready" and it's less a case of trying to bring them form the academy, and more case of treating them like rotational, in fairness the latter he is good at.
You don't need to find and spot TFM, Rashford etc, just keeping playing and teaching them like first teamers. Half the job has been done for Jose. And as long as he has **** there, all he needs to do is listen to him about the academy and take his advice on players.
Yeah, Jose is very poor at promoting players from academy to first team but he is not too bad at playing young players who are part of first team.
So Rashford, Fosu Mensah will be part of first team even if Jose is appointed.
lxl Ra lxl
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Honest question, like who?
Don't think it happened too much (enough) at Chelsea: KdB and Lukaku
See the article above.
I'm not including Porto as playing youngsters is norm over there.
Chelsea -
Cech was 22 which was young for GK.
Glen Johnson -20 years played 28 games.
Robben - 20 years old.
Huth - 20 years old
Obi Mikel - 18-19 year old
Kalou - 19 years old
Lass Diarra - 21 years old
Inter
Santon - 17 year old
Balotelli - 18 year old
Madrid
Marcelo - 22 years old
Di Maria - 22 years old
Ozil - 22 years old
Varane - 19 years old
Morata - 19 years old
Chelsea:
Hazard - 22 years old
Oscar - 22 years old
Zouma - 20 years old
Courtois - 22 years old
There are few obvious players who can be excluded like Hazard, Ozil, Di Maria and also you can filter down age if you want, just have to remove few names.
Like I said, Jose is very poor at promoting players from academy to First team but when the young player who is part of first team is good enough, they will play (obviously there are exceptions).
Anthony
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Christ?? The ABU naysayers are driving me nuts at the moment regarding Rashford.
"He's a flash in the pan... Won't be worth a bollix in a few years".
"Just another overhyped 'kid'. Will be playing in the The championship in a few years".
"Once He's found out, He'll disappear".
He's a decent young lad trying to get ahead in sport (and life), and He should be commended for it.
Stop trying to bring people down because your life didn't turn out exactly how you wanted it to.
"He's a flash in the pan... Won't be worth a bollix in a few years".
"Just another overhyped 'kid'. Will be playing in the The championship in a few years".
"Once He's found out, He'll disappear".
He's a decent young lad trying to get ahead in sport (and life), and He should be commended for it.
Stop trying to bring people down because your life didn't turn out exactly how you wanted it to.
wkdsoul
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RUMOURS: Man Utd offer Rashford to Fiorentina - Goal.com
Being reported a few places? They having a laugh
Being reported a few places? They having a laugh
lol. No one is that stupid.
Half of those players were already insane. Players like Hazard and Di Maria went for big money.Ozil? You having a laugh? Half of Europe wanted him before Madrid signed him after that incredible world cup. Fair play to Van Gaal for getting alot out of young players.