The Manchester United Thread

Mike. said:
Funnily enough scouse, you don't need to be liverpool fan to read about klopp, he had a history before anfield
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Naturally.

But when you want to talk about Klopp and his L'pool side which we where, throwing up anything that's gone before is pretty darn irrelevant.
 
I think Rafa and Mourinho are a bit from another era. That is, they already had reputations as good tacticians in the good old days, before managers became celebrity superstars.

Relative newcomers Klopp, Pep or Simeone, are often more associated with press conference banter or touchline antics, than with their tactics. It's all just a media manufactured meaningless drivel. Sports journalists being what it is, it's easier to write a story about Jogi Loew picking his nose, than to write one about his tactics.

What can you do, that's the world we live in, there's really no point obsessing about stupidity of modern mass media.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
You honestly don't see the football either Benitez or Mourinho's teams have played as dour the bulk of their careers?

Interesting perception. I fell out of love watching my club being bored stupid by Rafa and his negative MO 'you start with a point, the least you can do is finish with a point' through the majority of his tenure at Anfield.

Whatever floats your boat I guess. But that's not for me.
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I always get confused with your logic here Scouse, lets say it's true and Benitez is such a dour manager. You would seriously sacrifice his years at Liverpool for a manager who may, or may not of arguably played more prettier football? That means sacrificing your Champions League trophy under him as well.

You seem a bit obssessed with this motion that 'Klopp football or no football is watchable' kind of lark now he's in charge.
 
Tyton said:
I think Rafa and Mourinho are a bit from another era. That is, they already had reputations as good tacticians in the good old days, before managers became celebrity superstars.

Relative newcomers Klopp, Pep or Simeone, are often more associated with press conference banter or touchline antics, than with their tactics. It's all just a media manufactured meaningless drivel. Sports journalists being what it is, it's easier to write a story about Jogi Loew picking his nose, than to write one about his tactics.

What can you do, that's the world we live in, there's really no point obsessing about stupidity of modern mass media.
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In basic terms pretty much. And this false perception then grows that innovative, attacking managers are mainly all passion and noise where as the more pragmatic, dour types are the tactical brains that can juke out whatever is needed to get the result. You ask your average Joe who's the tactical managers out of Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho and Benitez and it won't be the first two because that's what media perception and pundit fluff puts in heads.

The games changing and moving on in so many ways but the arl stereotypes are sticking with many mediots and general footie fans.

Just one example is a recent going discussion I've had on here with an Arsenal fan here who loves his stats (which there's nottin' wrong with. They're a massive part in modern day football at the pro level if displayed and analysed correctly. I just prefer the 'sight test' over any other to a defining factor) over his (misguided) view that L'pool lack a DM. you look at the City game the other day, and until Henderson went off, the two best players on the park, and they've both been as good as any in the position this year for their respective teams, were Henderson and Fernandinho. Playmaking. Controlling everything their sides did. Positional covering and breaking up. Organising. The whole gambit. Yet at the start of the year, very few would of thought either could play that role as neither were traditional defensive midfielders. But their respective managers have redefined that role within the team and fit in non-typical technically sound, intelligent lads who've added superbly. Mourinho's doing similar with Herrara deeper. We need to get away from the DM discussion as that specialist in the traditional Didi Hamman/ Makélélé sense is becoming fewer and further between as the role evolves to someone to control from that pivot. And you can see it going further where those ball playing types like a Carrick or Herrera talking Utd will be the next evolution of centre halves and trained as such from a young age.

The game is evolving in so many facets but the traditional stereotype sadly continues to remain in lots of instances when, as you say, it's continually pushed by the lazy, 'modern mass media.'
 
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zzeezzy said:
I always get confused with your logic here Scouse, lets say it's true and Benitez is such a dour manager. You would seriously sacrifice his years at Liverpool for a manager who may, or may not of arguably played more prettier football? That means sacrificing your Champions League trophy under him as well.

You seem a bit obssessed with this motion that 'Klopp football or no football is watchable' kind of lark now he's in charge.
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I have the utmost respect for Rafa and what he done Istanbul (albeit that was a terrible season saved by a ridiculous, surprise European run) and Cardiff. He's always come across as a genuinely sound fella' and he and his wife have done a lot locally and put a lot back that does go unrecognised Nationally. But the football was mind numbingly boring more often than not. It got so bad I ended up loaning my seasonie out and picking and choosing games. I had complete apathy that started with Houllier who went the same way. Even in '08/'09 when we should of won the league, the brilliant, open, attacking play the second half I don't believe was down to him but more a player revolt. The first half of the season you could well argue he cost us the league going to ***** like Middlesbrough for a point. The very next season, he reverted right back to type. This is the fella' who seriously thought Gareth Barry was better for him than Xabi Alonso FFS! That was his mindset.

Football is supposed to be about entertainment and a release from everything else. Yes, winnings naturally important. I follow Englands most successful club and have seen more silverware lifted live the past 3 decades and more than most to not need telling on that. But winning isn't everything. If you're paying hard earned cash to sit and be bored shitless but getting the result and that does for you good for you.

But that's not how I want to spend my Sat'day's.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
What was it with him? Attitude? Application? He was/ is one **** of a talented footballer but he's never reached the levels that talent should have him at.
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IMO, I think he had the potential to reach a almost Ronaldo level, but his major flaw was the he missed the same drive and application to the game that Ronaldo has. When somethinh went wrong for him in a game, he couldn't really pick himself up of and go again. I think he also felt too much pressure when he was labelled the next "Ronaldo" (even though Ronaldo was only around 25 himself in thaat season, typical ****** media).

When Nani turned it on he was sensational and everything he did turned to absolute gold, perfect for making that highlight reel you just saw. It's just a shame that these games would be to few and far between for him to be relied upon. I both loved him and hated seeing his name on the team sheet on match-day, as I knew he was going to be a wasted man, but he MAY just do something sensational.

So in summary, drive to better himself, pressure and consistency is why he failed.
 
regarding nani,he just lacks the mental attributes to be a true great.poor decision making is his bigggest flaw i feel,yes hes improved but not good enough to bve classed a world star imo.
 
Ta for the opinions guys. And for the vid which was a very enjoyable 20 minute or so watch.

Frustrating as he had/ has all the God given ability in the World.
 
djs1 said:
regarding nani,he just lacks the mental attributes to be a true great.poor decision making is his bigggest flaw i feel,yes hes improved but not good enough to bve classed a world star imo.
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+ the injuries that sabotaged his career.
 
After Dean Henderson spent a few months on Grimsby’s bench and travelling back to United to play some U23 games, he’s finally getting some matches ion League Two. Two starts in a row, 0 conceded goals, 1 MOTM performance. Third consecutive start today as they meet Carlisle (2nd in League Two) away 30mins.
 
Apparently Januzaj looking very lively against the Pool, will probably stream the second half. Interested to see how he's getting on.
 
Meanwhile at the Etihad: Fernandinho is off after he attempted a two-footed sliding tackle on Gudmundsson's neck!

****** hope they drop points there...

COME ON BURNLEY! :D
 
RhQQ said:
Apparently Januzaj looking very lively against the Pool, will probably stream the second half. Interested to see how he's getting on.
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Lively in tears of he's working. But his complete lack of quality is on display again. You need to move on from him.
 
RhQQ said:
Apparently Januzaj looking very lively against the Pool, will probably stream the second half. Interested to see how he's getting on.
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Been good and looking lively since coming back from injury. His assist in there last game was top class!
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Lively in tears of he's working. But his complete lack of quality is on display again. You need to move on from him.
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Oh, odd, not something I'd associate with a lively Januzaj performance. I personally think his attitude and work rate is questionable, but the technical side of his game, the ability to drop the shoulder and beat men at will, is quite high in my book. His decision making is hot & cold though, but that comes with age.

I do think it's a bit of uphill battle for him to make it at O.T now, but I don't think he'll be stuck for a good club should it not work out here.
 
RhQQ said:
Oh, odd, not something I'd associate with a lively Januzaj performance. I personally think his attitude and work rate is questionable, but the technical side of his game, the ability to drop the shoulder and beat men at will, is quite high in my book. His decision making is hot & cold though, but that comes with age.

I do think it's a bit of uphill battle for him to make it at O.T now, but I don't think he'll be stuck for a good club should it not work out here.
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Read a good piece on Redit the other day about how Januzaj keeps in contact with Mou also same with Periera. Think they both will be in the squad for next year.
 
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