The Manchester United Thread

Not sure I could marshall 3 kids (2 debutants and 1 his 2nd game) alongside me the backline as superbly as JMG did against Everton’s best side the Cup like.
Everton created a lot of opportunities in the first half of that game tho so it wasn't well marshalled as you think. If Everton were more clinical, you could have easily lost the game
 
I don't get the hate for Maguire I've got to be honest.... he's never a defender worth the price we paid mind. But he genuinely hasn't been bad this season either, he has been one of our most consistent players. That probably doesn't say much but there has been games like City at home where he has been good. Last game against Wolves as well.

AWB & Williams have mostly been great this season, AWB did struggle yesterday and had one of his worst games, but I blame that partly due to the system. He's much more comfortable when playing in a 4 at the back formation. Wing back doesn't suit him.

The main issue at United is the midfield..... if we had Fernandes yesterday then we would have scored at least one..... Pereira's decision making was that of a toddler. The other issue is a striker with a real presence and lack of forward options generally. Dan James looks like he has almost burnt out.

Scouse gives you that worst possible analysis. I don't blame him tho since he's of course a scouser. If our situations were reversed, I'd do the same thing lol
 
You also have to think back to that Liverpool vs Arsenal game where your defense look like complete shambles without VVD. Again, VVD has that big on an effect. I think playing next to VVD is the easiest job in the world.
 
Everton created a lot of opportunities in the first half of that game tho so it wasn't well marshalled as you think. If Everton were more clinical, you could have easily lost the game

Mate, seriously. They had three chances the first half hour and that was that. They got utterly outplay4d from the first minute to the last. In a team whose only other senior players were Milner, who went off early, Lallana and Origi. All of whom were superb that game.

That's undoubtedly one of van Dijk's strengths. Like most all-time great players. Elevating those around him. But it's insulting to the other CH's in their own right to suggest that's why they've all played to such a consistently high level.
 
You also have to think back to that Liverpool vs Arsenal game where your defense look like complete shambles without VVD. Again, VVD has that big on an effect. I think playing next to VVD is the easiest job in the world.

Arsenal when Joe was coming back himself struggling for fitness after 9/10 months out? With a kid in nets his second game and nearly as weak a defence around him bar Milner?

Context mate.
 
Scouse gives you that worst possible analysis. I don't blame him tho since he's of course a scouser. If our situations were reversed, I'd do the same thing lol

And that utter B/S is the same way many L'pool used to bury their heads in the sand over criticism the '90/ '00's to help themselves get through.
 
And that utter B/S is the same way many L'pool used to bury their heads in the sand over criticism the '90/ '00's to help themselves get through.

I'm not denying we have issues, we have a lot and I've touched that topic a lot on this thread (so have other fans) but pointing to Maguire as a flop already is a lil short sighted. He's not worth $80 million and he needs to work on his communication but at no point this season do I consider him to be a flop. There are those games where he's looked iffy like yesterday's game (didn't cost us tho) but there have been those games where he's look fantastic like city away and most recently the wolves game. He needs to work on his communication which may or may not come with time. Idk

Now, if you're going to bash our midfield, that's very valid. Criticize OGS, absolutely. Criticize the Accountant pretending to know the ins and outs of football, 100%.
 
Mate, seriously. They had three chances the first half hour and that was that. They got utterly outplay4d from the first minute to the last. In a team whose only other senior players were Milner, who went off early, Lallana and Origi. All of whom were superb that game.

That's undoubtedly one of van Dijk's strengths. Like most all-time great players. Elevating those around him. But it's insulting to the other CH's in their own right to suggest that's why they've all played to such a consistently high level.

Oh really now mate? Tell me, Matip had consistently performed consistently at a high level before VVD init? He marshalled the lot to clean sheet after clean sheet? Cmon mate. I remember 2-3 years ago how your lot would always Moan about every Joel Matip error on the Liverpool thread.
 
I'm not denying we have issues, we have a lot and I've touched that topic a lot on this thread (so have other fans) but pointing to Maguire as a flop already is a lil short sighted. He's not worth $80 million and he needs to work on his communication but at no point this season do I consider him to be a flop. There are those games where he's looked iffy like yesterday's game (didn't cost us tho) but there have been those games where he's look fantastic like city away and most recently the wolves game. He needs to work on his communication which may or may not come with time. Idk

Now, if you're going to bash our midfield, that's very valid. Criticize OGS, absolutely. Criticize the Accountant pretending to know the ins and outs of football, 100%.

But you did pay £80 million for him mate and made him the most expensive CH in World football in so doing. Along with another £50 for AWB making him what, the 5/6th most expensive defender of all time?

When you lay-out that, you're paying for elite, difference-making players. That's the barometer when the stakes are that high. That's why we waited, after the initial F up that cost us another £20 million on him, another 6 months for VVD. Top bracket, the difference-making ability for the best out there. Neither of which they've been. Saying they're better than what you had/ have played well in certain games is a grasping justification of that.

Maguire has been a bang average defender in this league this year. If van Dijk, who BTW has dipped on his superhuman form of last season, had dipped to those levels he'd be getting slated all over. The tackle stat on AWB is a great one that gets thrown up on social media all the time. Some divvy's even try use it to say he's better than Trent. When often he's been throwing in last-ditch recovery tattles this year as he's been caught out of position in the first place! That oft used line from the summer that he never gets beat one-on-one has soon disappeared now he's on an island by himself and not protected in the Hodges ultra-defensive system ay? And all that's no real slight on AWB. He's still really raw and inexperienced. Both in age and top-level experience. He'll develop. Should add to the attacking side too going forward being he's a former winger still learning the position. But at present, he'd just a very highly-priced version of Nathanial Clyne.

I think it's been that long since there's been consistently high level defending at Utd that anything that's better than Jones/ Smalling et all is seen as a big positive to hang hope on.

But when the fees paid have been so ridiculous, and the standards aren't matching that, then rightly or wrongly that's what they'll get hold up against.
 
It is crazy that they are allowed to play with injury. Even with thin squad this shows bad man management. You cut your losses then with youth players, not play guys for them to break even more and have worse injury in the end.
 
Very strange the AWB is the new Nath Clyne now. Well I’ve heard it all! He was ***** yesterday no doubt! He looks absolutely shot imo needs rotating a bit. Hopefully not Dalot and TFM are fit he will get some rest time.
 
It is crazy that they are allowed to play with injury. Even with thin squad this shows bad man management. You cut your losses then with youth players, not play guys for them to break even more and have worse injury in the end.
Don’t think it’s anything serious. Some thigh muscle injury I think. Problem is all our other cbs have been injured even at U23s level except Mengi but he’s only 17 I think. It’s another role that TFM could do a decent job in. Especially in cup games/europa
 
But you did pay £80 million for him mate and made him the most expensive CH in World football in so doing. Along with another £50 for AWB making him what, the 5/6th most expensive defender of all time?

When you lay-out that, you're paying for elite, difference-making players. That's the barometer when the stakes are that high. That's why we waited, after the initial F up that cost us another £20 million on him, another 6 months for VVD. Top bracket, the difference-making ability for the best out there. Neither of which they've been. Saying they're better than what you had/ have played well in certain games is a grasping justification of that.

Maguire has been a bang average defender in this league this year. If van Dijk, who BTW has dipped on his superhuman form of last season, had dipped to those levels he'd be getting slated all over. The tackle stat on AWB is a great one that gets thrown up on social media all the time. Some divvy's even try use it to say he's better than Trent. When often he's been throwing in last-ditch recovery tattles this year as he's been caught out of position in the first place! That oft used line from the summer that he never gets beat one-on-one has soon disappeared now he's on an island by himself and not protected in the Hodges ultra-defensive system ay? And all that's no real slight on AWB. He's still really raw and inexperienced. Both in age and top-level experience. He'll develop. Should add to the attacking side too going forward being he's a former winger still learning the position. But at present, he'd just a very highly-priced version of Nathanial Clyne.

I think it's been that long since there's been consistently high level defending at Utd that anything that's better than Jones/ Smalling et all is seen as a big positive to hang hope on.

But when the fees paid have been so ridiculous, and the standards aren't matching that, then rightly or wrongly that's what they'll get hold up against.

That's a good point. Even when we signed Maguire, a common phrase amongst United fans was "he's better than Jones and Smalling". Now, that isn't a high bar but it's something we clinged onto.

I'm just grasping onto this straw that adding a quality DM will improve us defensively that that straw is very thin lol.


He's definitely not given us 80 millions worth and I guess for the money paid, he's been "average". I do believe he isn't vocal enough and we don't have a proper DM to shield that back 4. As a result, they're put under a lot of pressure. I don't criticize AWB as I know he will improve. I'm a lot more confident that overtime, he'll quite rightly justify his fee.
 
Very strange the AWB is the new Nath Clyne now. Well I’ve heard it all! He was ***** yesterday no doubt! He looks absolutely shot imo needs rotating a bit. Hopefully not Dalot and TFM are fit he will get some rest time.

It's not a 'new' thing. It's always been the most apt comparison. Not least with both coming out of Palace. Both rapid, solid defensive, FB's. ***** going forward.

Everything AWB brings to the table is what you'd describe in Clyne's skill-set. Who would be challenging Trent to be our first choice RB, giving a consistent 7 out of 10, were it not for that type of FB not fitting into the way we play football now.
 
Oh really now mate? Tell me, Matip had consistently performed consistently at a high level before VVD init? He marshalled the lot to clean sheet after clean sheet? Cmon mate. I remember 2-3 years ago how your lot would always Moan about every Joel Matip error on the Liverpool thread.

Oh he was utter *****. No question. I'd have binned him two summer's ago.

Matip's always had the ability. He was bossing the position the Bundesliga when we usurped Bayern to snag him. Started off brilliant here justifying all those defensive categories he was up the top in, in Germany. Then got injured and came back a shadow of the player. A CH who didn't like physical contact. Which was more annoying given his size. Positionally all over. ***** the air. His whole game went to pot. So there's no question playing alongside van Dijk has helped him get his confidence back and helped elevate him back to the top drawer level he's been at all the last calendar year. His main issue now is staying healthy.

But I'd now be pretty confident, if big Virg went down for a spell, you wouldn't see much of a drop off defensively with Gomez and a combination of Matip and Lovren.

Yanno what was always the single biggest factor back there? As World-class and difference-making as van Dijk has been? Sorting out the goalie situation.

The defence as a whole under Klopp was never that bad in terms of they never really gave up many big chances per game. And the defensive record has improved season-on-season under him. (He was a defender for much of his career and knows the importance of that end of the park well which often gets overlooked.). It was the clown between the posts that was the biggest issue of all. Most every shot he faced, went in! And the indecision just spread panic through the lot of them (and the crowd) as they never knew WTF he was going to do behind them!

van Dijk's made a massive difference naturally. But he's far from the soul difference back there. (Much better FB play and overall team defensive protection as we've evolved have all played a part.). It's far from a one-man group.
 
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..... and we don't have a proper DM to shield that back 4. As a result, they're put under a lot of pressure. I don't criticize AWB as I know he will improve. I'm a lot more confident that overtime, he'll quite rightly justify his fee.

Wouldn't disagree with either of that.

You don't have a competent one of the former. And the difference between AWB and the Clyne comparison right now is Wan-Biasaka is young and with a lot of development and room for improvement to go. Clyne is the set style of FB he is and that isn't changing at this veteran stage of his career.
 
The other issue for me is not only we don't have a DM but also..... the GK..... De Gea has no presence whatsoever. It must make the defence so uncertain any time the ball goes in the box knowing he'll barely ever come to command the area.

For me yesterday once again he was slightly fortunate to get away with VAR chalking that goal off, because Van dijk didn't do a whole lot wrong to make him drop that ball.
 
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